To Wild, Or Not To Wild :o

[eNathan]

I have been into Lucid Dreaming for a few years now. I've recently gotten back into it I have not been successful with many techniques, namely MILD, RCs, etc. The only one that seems like it could work is WILD, as . . we'll it's just more 'gaurenteed' if you can pull it off. Anyway, i've tried to WILD several times. I usually get to the point where I am going to enter SP -- I feel like im sinking into my bed, and I feel "waves" through my body. I know this is SP. The only problem is that, however I can enter SP rather easily and fully awake, I always back out during the transition; The reason for this is because, due to various health concerns in the past (nothing major), I get very, very paranoid about my breathing and heartrate. During this meditative state, I am usually not even thinking about my breathing nor heart rate. But I fear "not being able to control my breathing", "not being able to feel myself breathe", and hence, "not being able to breathe". Could somebody please explain the exact process of going into SP, and how it effects how I "feel myself breathe" and what I could expect my breathing to feel like during the A) transition, B) SP, and C) dreaming I just don't want any suprises I fear being in SP, waiting for the dream world to open, while im thinking "I can't control my breathing! wtf ;o". I know, it's silly. Any help would be greatly appreciated I think I would be a good WILDer if I can just overcome this.

[eNathan]

anyone?

[Dice]

Sometimes I concentrate on my breathing so much, that I can't breathe, unless I consciensly do so. It's kind of annoying to be so self-aware all the time. Well, all I can suggest is, that you shouldn't worry so much about it. If you're really unable to breathe, you will wake up immediately. You could try autosuggestion to not be so scared once you hit SP again.

[HyperNova]

yeah exactly. If you cant breath in real life you WILL wake up. Once in a SP i concentrated on my breathing and found it was hard to breath, however i didnt wake up and i could breath. I think that the way you breath in your SP is the same while you dream however in SP you can be concience of it and it may seem strange as it is slower and deaper and you are not able to control it. Dont worry.

[Jr_Worley]

Sp, is just a normal part of what happens every single time you go to sleep you shouldn't worry bout not breathing while in sp, because your physical body is asleep and your mind awake thats it your not gonna die. even if you couldn't breath your body would wake you up. iv only had sp a couple times and that was before i knew about all this stuff i was so scared i wanted out of it. but now id really love to try it. Anyways you shouldn't worry.

[eNathan]

Well, that's sure reassuring I hope I'll go through with it soon. But I really don't want any suprises, so if someone knows these, would they be so kind as to answer While in SP, will I "feel myself breathing" -- or I just literally won't feel anything (including my heartbeat)? Thanks in advanced!

[slimslowslider]

It is hard to say because we all think differently (are you a kineasthetic-tactile type thinker BTW?) so I can only speak from personal experience (i'm a visual type), and what I've heard/read from others. I would advise you to try NOT to monitor your autonomous systems, let your body-mind do its job - but i can imagine the challenge here if you've had problems... Can you say anymore about your health concerns? It seems a bit like a panic disorder? I'm sure you know its not rational but that doesn't help, right? And as soon as you start to worry - the heart and breathing rates go up creating a viscious cycle??? Am guessing... When I WILD, its almost entirely a visual experience which is partly why I can suggest not monitoring your body but focussing entirely on directingyour attention outwards through visualisation if you can? I've never been aware of SP apart from when doing self-hypnosis and asking for it(&#33- and I could certainly feel my breathing. Even then, it never occured to me that my heart and breathing would stop if I wasn't actively-consciously driving them. I have worried about this in the past - like when I first got veryveryvery high eating hashish and drinking alcohol when I was 17 (baaaad), and also during a few panics subsequently, mainly drug related. The thing is, and I won't lie to you, it IS possible to have some control / influence over the autonomous nervous system. Yogis etc., who can slow their heart rate, are not myth. You can train the ANS with biofeedback, which is a bit like what you get naturally if you are sensitive and body-aware e.g. through practicing yoga or chi gung. However I'm certain that killing yourself is not possible - the body-mind/ANS would just override your attempts (try suffcating your self by holding your breath). Also remember SP is not actually paralysis - its more like hypnosis - and from what I've heard for SP and experienced with hypnosis, you can get out of it with will power alone. And further, in SP the brain specifically aims to only paralyse the bits of you that might cause self-harm if you were to physically enact your dreams (arms and legs etc) - i.e. the brain is looking after you! And even that is only partially effective in some people. I don't know if you can feel yourself breathe whilst LDing(**see note below) - probably, I will try to remember to give it a go - but I suspect that attempting to be body-aware (real body rather than dream body) would wake you up. I used to have a nightmare, when a child, of heavy footsteps getting closer and closer, louder and faster until one day I realised it was the sound of my heart beating (the viscious cycle of fear/ adrenalin/ heart rate) and I never had it again - so it would seem you can hear /feel your heart beat in a dream. I would say again: Try not to monitor your body - instead sense the world around, directing your mind outwards. Encourage / develop different senses like the visual (its the one that entirely goes 'out&#39. Maybe if in doubt try shouting aloud "attention out!" sweet dreams slimslowslider **Hi, Zhine here, adding a bit as slimslowslider asked for my take on this... I also have 'issues' about heart rate and breathing, and usually can't use them as focus for meditation as it scares me (long history of panic attacks...). I also get strange sensations when relaxing, including the waves - pulsations starting from the heart, and sinking, and often pull back. I can't articulate what I fear will happen, it's just that the sensations seem to build and I don't know what the crescendo will be! I would second slimslowslider's suggestions to focus elsewhere, something that you won't be un-nerved by. However, if you CAN face it, try gently focussing on the heartrate or breathing with an 'oh I wonder what will happen' attitude. Whether awake, in sleep paralysis, in LD or normal dream there's no way (unless you're a VERY highly trained yogi) either your conscious or unconscious thoughts can dangerously mess up breathing or heartrate. The body has failsafe mechanisms to override any attempts, and though they may not feel comfortable, they are ALWAYS ON YOUR SIDE, so are not something to fear, so there's no need to feel you have to remain in control. I don't often enter lucidity using WILD (for same reasons of being overly focussed on bodily sensations) but it's definitely possible to be conscious of breathing whilst in a LD. Whether this is the real or dream breath I don't know (I've tried out touch and taste in LD's and my subconscious happily obliges...). I often go into water or through solid objects in LD's to get to different scenes and have sometimes had a moment of mild panic thinking I won't be able to breath as the solid wraps around my face as I pass through - but all that's needed is to remind myself that i am in dreamworld and breathing is not necessary there. The body will keep itself breathing of course! Hope that helps - pm me if anything needs further explaining. Zhine

[eNathan]

Thank you very much for you're input(s), slimslowslider and Zhine! It seems yous know quite a bit concerning this subject matter. I certainly have no question that I'm going to die -- I'm just a fear-ridden person when it comes to these things It mainly came from me having SVT (benign irregular hearrate). I remember being high once -- and the mind alterance, coupled with the SVT, really got me paranoid. Sometimes, my heart would beat fast and hard, then seemingly stop for a few seconds (dont get the wrong idea, I'm far from anything that fits the definition of even a 'social drug user', which mainly resuted from these episodes). I recently had a procedure done which cured this minor heard rhythm defect. But the paranoia which came from these panics still remains with me to a small extent. I'm actually a bit tired, and am going to attempt a WILD after posting this. If it's successful I'll tell yous how it went. I used to have a nightmare, when a child, of heavy footsteps getting closer and closer, louder and faster until one day I realised it was the sound of my heart beating (the viscious cycle of fear/ adrenalin/ heart rate) and I never had it again[/b] This reminds me of a time, recently, when I was in a state of hypnosis while attempting a WILD. I swore up and down that my body was being "nudged" upward every second or so. Of course, I wasn't going anywhere - but it sure felt like it! Soon thereafter, I realized that it was my heartbeat. Apparently, the energy of the heartbeat, going through my body, created the "sensation" which I consequently interpreted as me being pushed upwards. So yes, it indeed seems that we can feel our heartbeat, and probably breathing, whistl LDing or in SP. Once again, thanks for you're help. :yumdumdoodledum:

[slimslowslider]

OK - so guessed wrong about the panic disorder - but hey... Good luck with the WILD!!!