Wilding With Marijuana?

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Originally Posted by orbsycli

My friends....
there is no need to argue.
To each his own.

There are those who remain sober,
and there are those that experiment with natures entheogens.

The goal of the shaman is to induce nonordinary reality without entheogens.

Open up your crown chakra, listen to god, and there is no need to argue or even speak.

(((om)))

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It is not "to each his own" when he spreads lies. Sure, some of what he's saying is opinion and is "to each his own", but some isn't and must be corrected.

I really hope a mod locks this thread

No matter what anyone says, nobody will change their mind about the subject. You either hate weed or you don't (although the ones who do hate it probably get their information from those bull shit commercials like abovetheinfluence who spread blatant lies).

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Originally Posted by The Wig

No, it's not a damn gateway drug. Being around weed BARELY ever means being around other drugs. The fact is, most people who deal with weed (and deal weed conversely) don't even bother with other drugs.

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This is where I should stop even trying to debate with you. Where you got this idea I have NO IDEA. Maybe because it's quite obvious you do not smoke alot of weed, which shows you are commenting on something you've never personally experienced.

Most "dealers" deal more than weed, small time or big time, as weed isn't a huge money maker unless moved in mass amounts. Just go to some random street in LA, ask around for who can sell you some bomb, and then ask if they have anything else. This is common knowledge to all pot smokers.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

As for your "probably double" quote, what is that about? You know "probably double" because you see idiots who are burn outs and social outcasts smoking weed. You don't see the people who use it responsibly. I know tons of people that smoke who no one would ever guess smokes. Why? Because they know how to act responsibly. You're assuming the majority of the human race is immature.

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I know there are some responsible pot smokers, just like there are some responsible drinkers. However, there will always be those "idiots" that mess it up for everyone else, which is exactly what my point was. And if pot is legalized, these "idiots" will most defineatly grow in number.

A simple fact. If you offer something 100 times, you will usually get 1% return. Offer it a 1000 times, same thing. You can see what this means. (Hopefully)

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Originally Posted by The Wig

As for how may kids say they smoke weed bfore class to "do better" I've honestly never heard anyone say that. Ever.

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My point exactly.....Read that aloud and tell me how it reflects to "society" about pot and kids.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

I tried going to class high once to see what it was like. I was paranoid as hell and didn't even pay attention because I was concentrating on not being high and getting caught. I've never done it again. I'd imagine many are like me and aren't going to sacrafice their education for a high. Then again, I'm in higher education. Are you talking about junior high?

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I thought you stated that personal experience is useless to use in this debate and means nothing?(Or something along those lines...I don't feel like quoting it right now, I have enough work ahead of me ;))

Hmmmmmm

Also, it's once again apparent you don't smoke alot of weed. Most "stoners" don't feel much paranoia at all. I went to class high every single day for a few months. No problems at all. I even spoke to an officer once while under the influence and experienced no anxiolytic effects. Paranoia tends to ware off with most people with consistant use.

As for my level of education, if that's what your trying to get at...Umm...If it's relevant I'm currently coming up on my second year towards getting my BA with my major being Psychology with a minor in Drug/Alcohal and Society at one of the top JCs in the US> Sierra College

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Originally Posted by The Wig

Neither would I. Which is why most "stoners" are responsible enough to realize their high and don't drive. No one has ever heard of someone getting killed or hurt because someone was high while driving.

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Wrong. I have.(Multiple times) Most "outsiders" havn't, because as stated as a problem earlier in my other post, it's too hard to tell if an experienced user is under the influence.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

This is because no one wants to waste their high worrying about driving. It's already illegal to drive while under the influence (of any drug). It's not that hard to figure out. If you get caught doing it, it's a DUI. Same punishments as alcohol. The only problem is, you were probably going too slow on a freeway. Heaven forbid.

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Wrong again. Most pot smokers drive, consistantly. Most regular users don't like to just smoke and 'sit around'. They have places to go or want to party/do something. And if they are in fact just sitting wherever they smoked at- How productive....

Once again this roots back to the fact that your speaking on a subject you have only lightly personaly touched on.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

I'll excuse your pompous suggestion that you know about the makeup and effect of "every other drug".

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Excuse it. I know what I have learned over the past years and thats all that needs to be said :) (Test me if you'd like)

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Originally Posted by The Wig

As for society viewing it as a drug, that doesn't make it right in any away. Racism was hugely rampant in the 1920s, and it wasn't right. Women couldn't vote until very recently and it was not right. Slavery was huge in teh 1700s and 1800s and it wasn't right. Just because something is, doesn't mean it should be.

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It is a drug. Society will always view it that way. Maybe it's not as physically harmful as society believes, but that changes nothing.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

As for it going over smooth, the only people who would bitch is the Christian right. If not, why are tons of left wing states legalizing marijuana for medical use? If not, why are polls constantly showing up voting for the decriminilization, indeed the LEGALIZATION, of weed? Nevada recently had a vote to legalize and sell in stores. It didn't pass by 6%.

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So your saying that because 1/12th of the US has ALMOST legalized weed means that it will go over just fine, theoretically, if it were legalized? Yea...take this missinformation somewhere else, or stop turning your head from it.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

I'm not being blind out of personal taste. I barely ever smoke.

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This is very apparent.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

I just know that the huge drug war is fucking retarded and not worthy of taxpayers money. It makes criminals out of people who are not violent. It's stupid. And you making these kind of posts do not help.

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I agree with you there. Societies views often do make criminals out of a select group of responsible pot smokers. Same thing with anyone that knows anything about Anabolic steroids. However, there will ALWAYS be those "idiots" that mess it up for everyone else, and that is simply my point.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

No, it's not absurd. Why would it be? Because the United States is retarded in it's crime laws? Well, I can give you that one.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

As for how much weed is smoked, polling is remarkbly accurate. You only need to poll, out of the whole USA about 1,500 people to get an accuracy rating that's about two points off either way. This is fact, not something I dug up out of my ass. You're being ignorant by assuming it's impossible to measure something like this.

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Ok, I can agree with you on a level here. If a poll is done correctly to the tee with the correct variables under the right situation, it can be fairly accurate. I give you this. However, it rarely happens and is still debatable among sociologists weather or not the accuracy behind it is totally true.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

Drinking alcohol with MDMA will further dehydrate you. They both act as dehydrators, and how you failed to see this is stunning to me since you are seemingly coming off as an "intelluctual".

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Yes, alcohal IS a diuretic. However while you are consuming it you are getting a fair amount of h20 (With most alcohalic drinks, mainly beer) and the dehydrative effects are usually felt "next day" when the alcohal has been processed out of your body.

Regaurdless this is not why people die from MDMA, the main cause is exactly what you and I have both stated below"

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Originally Posted by The Wig

Most deaths are caused by overhydration because people are afraid of letting it dehydrate them so they overcompensate.

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However, your leaving out alot of the other dangerous facts I stated about MDMA. But lets not open up another drug argument on if its safe or not (Which was my original point, "whats next" thought process, and perception is reality)

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Originally Posted by The Wig

Stop saying Amsterdam vs. United States isn't relevant, because it is. The only reason you say that is because if throws all your stupid points out of the window.

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Your comparing a CITY with a population of roughly 1million compared to the COUNTRY known as the US. Give me a break, get that crap out of here. Lets compare the US to the thrid world countries! Some things just don't work that way. Thats pure propaganda.

I'm doing it to throw out my "stupid" points. <What a great intellectual statement with solid backing. /end sarcasm.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

Legalize weed, and I promise you you will see less people smoking weed than cigarettes.

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Uhhh....duh? Maybe because cigarettes have

A. Been legal much longer

B. Are actually CHEMICALLY addicting

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Originally Posted by The Wig

It's not going to change dramatically, and if anything, it will go down because it becomes less risky to smoke it and half the thrill is gone anyway.

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Like I said earlier: Offer it more times, the higher return rate you will receive. Are you telling me that you would stop smoking all of a sudden because it became legal? How about the responsible smokers you know? Are they all of a sudden going to think "Oh...the thrills gone...I dont want to smoke anymore" Yea right......lol.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

No I wasn't. Are you unable to figure out how to use the quote button? Your posts are already jumbled and thrown around as it is, so excuse me if I can't figure out who is who when you don't quote someone. If you don't quote, I have to assume you wrote it.

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I guess, except for that fact that I responded right after it in a manner in which makes it obvious it didn't come from me. (Once again proving you hardly read and comprehend the whole post before coming back with a debate.)

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Originally Posted by The Wig

I meant it was totally legal with a prescription

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Another contradiction. Funny statement though.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

I won't accuse someone of using weed to enhance a movie or television show, just as long as they can stop when needed.

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Neither will I= However this is hardly the case. Everyone knows, even people that use, that pot can be mentally addicting. Does that mean it happens to everyone? No. But like I've been continually saying, there will be enough people to screw it up for the rest.

Will I say someone is abusing alcohal if they have one or 2 glasses of wine to relax?...no. But there are always those who will abuse, it's human nature.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

The only point you're making is that weed shouldn't be legalized, which is stupid. Smarter men than you have come along to say it should be (and I'm not saying I'm one of them).

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I'm simply stating that there are some viable reasons WHY weed is illegal. And, thinking it's possible to judge someones intellect or how "smart" someone is online, over a "Weed debate" speaks volumes for itself.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

I'm not taking it as a personal attack, I'm taking it as you spreading the wrong information. Your using information that is not backed up (how many people smoke out in the USA). You frequently do this, as can be seen with the smelling in dreams post we argued in. I responded with links and articles confirming my point, you just said I was wrong. There's no reason to cite anything in this post because you simply won't look.

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Good, you shouldn't take it as a personal attack because I don't intend for it to be. We are simply arguing or debating. However-

I'M using information that is not backed up? My information comes from personal experience (Which you don't have to the full extent) and college courses of study. Yours comes from...where exactly? Yourself? And...random polls online? Ahem.

Show me all the poles you want about how much people smoke and how it's not that harmful- That has NOTHING to do with my points.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

You're the one using a blindfold. Weed can be as harmful as any drug, but that shouldn't be stopping it from being legalized.

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I lol'd

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Originally Posted by The Wig

It hurts NO ONE other than the person who uses it, if it even hurts them. It's not like alcohol where judgements are imparied and you go for a drive. It just doesn't work like that. It's not like nicotine where it is a damn poison and fucks up your lungs in cigarette form. It's not heroin where it gets you addicted and drains your money supply on it.

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Simply wrong. There will always be the abusers, which harm the family and friends around them as well as thereselves, and driving under the influence just like alcohal is dangerous.

BTW- Heroin is simply morphine with a molecule attached to make its effects peak quicker. Meaning it's addicting in the same way weed is- Mentally, and if your saying weed doesn't tale a toll on cashflow your being ignorant.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

You're just being silly. As for you not responding, I'm sure. That's a huge cop out to anything.

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Here, I replied for you- Happy? We are accomplishing nothing.

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Originally Posted by The Wig

And as for being on topic, I believe you were one of the guys who bitched about no one doing it in this post, and then you went ahead and did it yourself.

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Correct. But I took responsibility for it in an earlier post, and have tried to drop it but it's just not happening :p - Oh, I'm pretty sure you've done the same.

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There truely isn't much more to say. The fact of the matter is your speaking with no personal experience and not comprehending what I'm trying to get across. I'm speaking with personal experience from both sides as well as actually have scientific background and studies in the matter.

We are contributing nothing to the original post, OR the whole weed debate because you and I won't come to terms anytime soon anyway, so what exactly are we getting done here?

Personally, I don't really have time to sit here and duke this out with you over the internet, so wrap it up with whatever you want to say and consider it dropped. Learn to agree to disagree.


(And, like all arguments, things at time can come across as personal attacks and such, but it is not on my side for I do not personally know you and can not judge you. I'm sure your a cool guy and we could have got along on better terms, but sometimes these things just happen:confused:)

Please just leave this thread...

if you want to contribute to discussion about wilding well under the influence of marijuana then go ahead

but its turning into a pretty shitty thread pretty quickly with all this rude remarks

it suprises me how many innocent things can be turned controversial so quickly???

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Originally Posted by Alprazolam

And if pot is legalized, these "idiots" will most defineatly grow in number.

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Wrong, take Amsterdam for example. Less people smoke weed there than the US.

Why should marijuana be illegal if cigarettes and alchol are legal? Cigarettes and alcohol both are worse than marijuana, and more addicting.

Marijuana is NOT a damn gateway drug. Unless you count junk food. If a marijuana smoker decides to do harder drugs, that doesn't mean marijuana is the cause.

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Originally Posted by blahaha

Wrong, take Amsterdam for example. Less people smoke weed there than the US.

Why should marijuana be illegal if cigarettes and alchol are legal? Cigarettes and alcohol both are worse than marijuana, and more addicting.

Marijuana is NOT a damn gateway drug. Unless you count junk food. If a marijuana smoker decides to do harder drugs, that doesn't mean marijuana is the cause.

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Don't take it the wrong way- I am not calling pot smokers "idiots". I am however calling out the pot smokers that take it to irresponsible levels and abuse.

Also I will not compare Amsterdam to the US. You are comparing a CITY to a NATION. It means absolutely NOTHING. You can also say "Look! Over in the third world countries pot is legal and almost EVERYONE smokes it!" However I don't use that argument even though it provides me with a case and point, because you can not compare apples with oranges. (I have already stated this in my post, READ it all before you pull a quote from it)


Also with cigarrettes/alcohal: You are pretty much trying to use the "2 wrongs make a right" outlook. It's childish and simply a ploy to have it legalized out of personal taste. READ my post(s) next time before you reply, I am giving reasons why.

And yes, cigarretes are chemically addicting, which marijuana is not. However alcohal is addicting in the same way THC is> Mentally. Try getting some facts straight before jumping in the middle.

-Thanks

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Originally Posted by Alprazolam

Don't take it the wrong way- I am not calling pot smokers "idiots". I am however calling out the pot smokers that take it to irresponsible levels and abuse.

Also I will not compare Amsterdam to the US. You are comparing a CITY to a NATION. It means absolutely NOTHING. You can also say "Look! Over in the third world countries pot is legal and almost EVERYONE smokes it!" However I don't use that argument even though it provides me with a case and point, because you can not compare apples with oranges. (I have already stated this in my post, READ it all before you pull a quote from it)


Also with cigarrettes/alcohal: You are pretty much trying to use the "2 wrongs make a right" outlook. It's childish and simply a ploy to have it legalized out of personal taste. READ my post(s) next time before you reply, I am giving reasons why.

And yes, cigarretes are chemically addicting, which marijuana is not. However alcohal is addicting in the same way THC is> Mentally. Try getting some facts straight before jumping in the middle.

-Thanks

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I wasn't just comparing Amsterdam and the US. I was trying to make a point, making marijuana legal won't make everyone do it. If you don't want to smoke marijuana, that's fine. But who are you to say what someone can or can't do? It's not like they're hurting anyone...

And no thanks, I will not read that entire huge post.

It's obvious nobody here will change their mind. This is endless, I won't be checking back.

Like I said, we could compare the US to the middle east- Wan't to go that route? And no, comparing a city to a nation is in no way valid in the manner.

I am not saying people can or can't smoke weed. Every person can make their own decision, and I was simply stating a few reasons why it is illegal as apposed to legal. Maybe that's WHY you should read the post before you try to pull a quote from it and reply to it as if you comprehend the whole point being made. This will save you from looking like a fool


Sorry- Don't mean to keep fueling the debate, but I will not have someone ignorantly making me look like something I am not because they chose not to read and comprehend what I said.

I really want to get off this debate and back to research but...

I won't tell anyone what to do or not do... but for those of you who do not think that doctors, lawyers, politicians, teachers, and many other professionals smoke pot... you are wrong. Pot smokers aren't all lazy. You just only know about the ones that are clearly "stoners" whom often abuse all substances not just pot.

Having an opinion is fine. But ignorance is dangerous. People from every walk of life and on every continent and at every age smoke pot. Both wealthy or on the street, successful and non successful. You just can't judge people.

Alprazolam you didn't need to pm me about this, I already said I am done here.

Replying to your post(and pm)
Damn dude, if you read my post you would know that I was trying to say that making it legal wouldn't make more people do it. Amsterdam is proof of that. That's my point. It doesn't matter what any of us think about it being illegal or not, it is slowly becoming legal. Like I said already, no I won't read your post it is WAY too long, sorry.
I already said in my post that I am done with this discussion.

Edit: I am done with this discussion, I'm sick of it. So please... nobody pm me or expect me to reply.

if you are interested take a look at the thread titled "more info on marijuana and dreaming." i must confess it focuses more weed than dreams. [potheads.....:banana:] but it is still relevant.

p.s. is this guy from the pbj flash video you think?----->:banana:

Oh yes, it is.


Peanut butter Jelly and a baseball bat!!

Research Lately anyone?

Im an off and on stoner, but have been smoking herb for about 3 years. I find that when I use pot, while im high, it is difficult to get a restful sleep and my dreams are very fragmented and chaotic as a result. Marijuana does impact REM sleep, which is when your brain dreams (correct me if im wrong, but thats what I have been told). HOWEVER, I have found when I remain abstinent from using herb, my dreams are much more vivid and complex later on. My reasoning for why this is, is my body might be trying to make up for lost REM sleep resulting in more intense dreaming. I have yet to experience a lucid dream and I am still very new to the whole lucid dreaming skill. I have been listening to Isochronic melodies to help, maybe I can try WILD with combined with isochronic melodies. lol...

2007?

time to wake up stoners

wow, this thread became a huge debate on weed...that's pretty ridiculous, and I thought I wouldn't see it here on DV...anyways, I'm not falling into that trap. Arguing over the internet is like running the special Olympics: even if you win, you're still retarded.

I have smoked weed for more than 14 years, with periods of abstinence of up to 9 months. What I have found is that frequent smoking diminishes your ability to recall dreams, but not by a huge degree. Whenever I go "cold turkey", I have frequent nightmares for a few days. Then my dreams greatly increase in vividness and length.

So I must conclude that marijuana, while great for recreation, does no real good in attaining lucidity. On the contrary, it hinders the process a little bit, at least for me. That, in fact, is one of the reasons I keep trying to stop it, but I just like it too much, and since most of my friends smoke, it's hard to quit once and for all. And like I said, the impact is not so substantial one way or another...

However, even being a pro-legalization person, I must tell anyone that smoking (anything at all) is not good for your health, and if you don't do it now, don't start. Your lungs will thank you.

By the way, I'm 32 yo, I'm a successful professional, and most my friends who smoke live normal, successful lives. Weed does not f#ck up people's lives. People do it themselves. That's my 2 cents.

A word of caution for people attempting this, be very well conditioned and comfortable in the dream world. You will experience some 'interesting' things.

Rathez, I'm not sure what you mean...attempting "this" what? Smoking and LDing? As far as I can tell, no word of caution is necessary here. What I can say, and Inception has said also above, is that smoking will hinder your LDing process, because your dreams will be shorter, less vivid and more fragmented. In fact, I couldn't agree more with Inception.
Peace
Ed

DUDE!!! Ive been doing this same exact thing and wanted to post a thread about it but didnet know where to begin. Im currently baked and am about to try a little bit of WILDing myself in a few :) Im totally down for contacting and working on this type of thing because ive been trying this a lot lately and been haveing excelent trips. No lucids yet but im getting close and i will prevail!!

i found that smoking later at night before i go to bed it helps me get the sleep paralysis feeling. the only dreams i remember are super vivid but very rarely LDs. and im always blowin shit up and stuff and running from cops, or a standup comedian. but aside from all that, it definately helps me sleep. i am a heavy smoker and will get back to you. i only joined so i could post in this topic. see what i can do tonight.

Live fast die young man lets do cocaine!

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Originally Posted by Ed77

Rathez, I'm not sure what you mean...attempting "this" what? Smoking and LDing? As far as I can tell, no word of caution is necessary here. What I can say, and Inception has said also above, is that smoking will hinder your LDing process, because your dreams will be shorter, less vivid and more fragmented. In fact, I couldn't agree more with Inception.
Peace
Ed

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Have you ever been in a lucid dream under the effects of marijuana?

Yes, overall marijuana extremely hinders the ability to lucid dream, and I do not promote it at all, but achieving a lucid dream under the effects of marijuana is still possible, and can be quite crazy.

Bumping a 3 year old thread is not cool.

Actually, I've never heard of marijuana hindering dreaming. Only the opposite.

From experience, I get extremely vivid and detailed dreams after smoking (I don't often, nor do I feel like engaging in a debate on the moral ethics of this). I also get a very deep and rested sleep.

One dream I had after smoking was that I was in a maze outside, and suddenly jumped down into a library that was half Japanese. I was searching through the aisles of books (which were also maze-like) and found a black book, and it was very ancient. I had a feeling I should buy it very badly, but people began looking at me in strange ways and I felt like I was being watched negatively. This is when 2 figures (I can't remember anymore) started searching for me and I jumped out of the library and back outside, where my car was. I randomly decided I didn't want to drive a red car and shouted "BLUE!" and the car turned blue. Then, very amused I started shouting all sorts of colors and my car would get an immediate paint job every time- but then I was transported to a Japanese game show where everything was in Japanese and I began half speaking their language.

-shrugs- It was interesting, to say the very least.

I believe weed isnt a gateway drug, but the people u get involved with often push u further. I know from my brothers experience, and no he isnt weak willed.

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Originally Posted by jmanjohn

I believe weed isnt a gateway drug, but the people u get involved with often push u further. I know from my brothers experience, and no he isnt weak willed.

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This is a sensative topic, please don't provoke off-topic, moral ethics. Stuff like this blows up on boards..