Wilding With Marijuana?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sk8bordgeek

Are you joking? :mad:

---

I don't think he is; just as I don't think anyone on here is when they say that.

Just because you've been shoved anti-weed propaganda in your face all your life doesn't mean that what you've been told is right.

The funniest anti-drug propaganda that I remember from childhood was the classic skillet and egg demonstration. They broke an egg and started cooking it... then they said, "This is your brain... on drugs!" Mwa ha ha ha (evil laugh).

But take an honest look... THC, the main component of weed, has a toxicity level that is very, very low. Combine that with the fact that it doesn't kill brain cells... or doesn't do anything permanent to your brain for that matter... and you have a conclusion that is relatively consistent with that person's statement of, "It is virtually harmless."

agreed let's keep this thread for research shall we?

the weed debate is important but, maybe move it to another thread/forum?

I think there are many other things in EVERYONES life that should hold much more importance than the famous "weed debate".

A pure waste of time for both sides, IMO.


Anyway, anyone have any success thus far>?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Surrealist

I don't think he is; just as I don't think anyone on here is when they say that.

Just because you've been shoved anti-weed propaganda in your face all your life doesn't mean that what you've been told is right.

The funniest anti-drug propaganda that I remember from childhood was the classic skillet and egg demonstration. They broke an egg and started cooking it... then they said, "This is your brain... on drugs!" Mwa ha ha ha (evil laugh).

But take an honest look... THC, the main component of weed, has a toxicity level that is very, very low. Combine that with the fact that it doesn't kill brain cells... or doesn't do anything permanent to your brain for that matter... and you have a conclusion that is relatively consistent with that person's statement of, "It is virtually harmless."

---

And I supposed you have a PHD in weedology?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sk8bordgeek

And I supposed you have a PHD in weedology?

---

No... I'm just an unbiased observer. I look at all the info with an open mind, and try not to choose what to believe based solely on my "feelings" on the subject.

For example, when anyone says: "Drugs are bad," they are simply stating their belief that all drugs are bad... actually finding solid resources and information to back it up would make it a whole lot more substantial.

Oh... and if they had a PHd in weed... I would be one of the first to enroll in that school. It sounds way to fun to pass up.

Even saying it's virtually harmless may be an understatement. Certain studies recently have revealed that marijuana may actually be beneficial to preventing cancer in the mouth/lungs/airway. They found that THC generally destroys old/damaged cells (the cells that are likely to become cancerous if they don't die), thus decreasing the chance of contracting cancer. Also, slightly higher immune systems have been found in many people who smoke weed, but perhaps that's just a coincidence, they aren't sure yet.

More so on topic now.... I would like to try WILDing with cannabis sometime, since I haven't had any luck with it while sober.... I'm way too alert whenever I try to WILD, so this might actually be ideal for me....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Surrealist

No... I'm just an unbiased observer. I look at all the info with an open mind, and try not to choose what to believe based solely on my "feelings" on the subject.

For example, when anyone says: "Drugs are bad," they are simply stating their belief that all drugs are bad... actually finding solid resources and information to back it up would make it a whole lot more substantial.

Oh... and if they had a PHd in weed... I would be one of the first to enroll in that school. It sounds way to fun to pass up.

---

I might believe you if you had gone to school to become a doctor... oh wait... that's right... YOU WERE SMOKING A JOINT WITH YOUR FRIENDS INSTEAD!!!

this seems like an endless argument...that will have no peace...

Is there any way to pull it back to Lucid dreaming, without the ethics?? Some people blaze, some people dont...

who cares...as long as you do no harm to anyone else...

It is true though, its harder to LD while stoned...but when i am stoned and have dreams..they are so amazing...intense/artistic/creative...

Oh and referring to The Wigs response to "get over myself"...well...im not over ly cocky or anything...i just mean that it transcends your normal drug like advil or nyquil...it grows from the ground and is earthy...i like it because it connects me to nature in a deeper way..but like anything in life it can be overused...

blessings everyone..even if you disagree....is there some way to come to compromise? empathy? :)

Lets concentrate in Lucid Dreams

I have never smoked weed before, but I think I will try it.
I always have a hard time trying to relax while Im falling asleep so maybe with weed it would be easier

Javier.

Not to be rude, but just. No.

Weed will do anything BUT make you a Lucid Dream master.


Also, saying "Lets talk about LDs" and then going off on a spill about Alochal vs Weed just doesn't work ;)


Also I think alot of people keep their focus on only ONE ASPECT of the word "Harmful"

Physical. Weed causes lung damage, and that's really about it. But thats not what can be dangerous.

Weed can be very mentally addicting and affect peoples lives in very negative ways, and/or it is also a stepping stone effect to other "drugs."

I personally have experienced both with THC. Not everyone is the same, but the threat is still present. (Ask most Coke or MDMA or any drug addict what they started out with first> Weed is a VERY COMMON answer. If you don't believe this you are blind and havn't spent enough time around these people over reading a book.) Also, almost everyone I know that smokes weed is somewhat lazy and demotivated.

I just smoked again for the first time last night in over a year. It was fun, but made me realize what a complete and utter waste of time it is in comparison to what I can do with this short time I have on earth.

Actually smoking marijuana almost always increases my chance of WILD.

I've smoked marijuana since I was 14 (21 now) and have experienced many positive bennefits. Yes, I know about the lung damage. I accept it. Lots of people smoke ciggarettes which is far worse and they get much less backlash than those who use marijuana. How many people do you know that died from smoking weed?

I don't think this is the proper place to have a debate about weed though! Maybe in another topic. If I get pissed enough I'll probably go full throttle.

I just don't get it why people hate marijuana so much.
It's been proven that marijuana contains more tar and other chemicals than cigarettes, ok, but look at this way. People who smoke marijuana only smoke maybe one a day, some more some less. People who smoke cigarettes probably smoke a pack a day.
Marijuana was actually criminalized based on racism!
"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz and swing, result from marijuana usage. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers and any others."

"Marihuana is an addictive drug which produces in its users insanity, criminality, and death."
"You smoke a joint and you're likely to kill your brother." "marijuana is the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind."
-Harry J. Anslinger
That was his evidence to outlaw marijuana in 1933(can't remember the exact year).
That's why they banned it. Pretty good reasons right?
Did you know over 400,000 people die each year because of tobacco? Over 100,000 die because of alcohol? How many people die each year because of marijuana? Zero. It would take over 40,000 joints to overdose. Not only would you have to smoke it all at the same time, which is humanly impossible, most people wouldn't be able to afford it.
All of the time they have to release real criminals such as murderers, rapists, etc. to make room for the mandatory sentences of peaceful marijuana smokers.
You know they spend something like $13 billion a year to help 'educate' and stop marijuana? They could save a lot of money, they could actually MAKE a lot of money by selling marijuana like cigarettes!
And as marijuana being a 'gateway drug'? Bull. The only reason people would say that is because most drug dealers that sell marijuana sell other drugs such as cocaine and heroine. So guess what happens? A kid decides to try weed, and he thinks "hey since they lied about marijuana, these other drugs must be OK too!" So the kid decides to try the other, more harmful drugs. Therefore, the government could actually SAVE lives by making it legal!

Wow... such a long post... sorry.
Back on topic, lol.
I can't ld when I'm high, but I do get very vivid and strange dreams.

Edit: Oh my god, NOT TO MENTION all the medicinal and general uses of the plant! You know dentists have to use some lethally toxic gas to dry your mouth? It would be much safer to use marijuana! Because of the marijuana ban we can't take advantage of the many uses it has to offer! The hemp plant can be used for paper, rope, clothing, (fuel? I heard somewhere it could somehow be used for fuel, not sure though). Marijuana would help people in chemotherapy tremendously by helping with the nausea and other symptoms. It can be used to help gain weight, and can help ease the glaucoma(spelling?). The list is endless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blahaha

And as marijuana being a 'gateway drug'? Bull. The only reason people would say that is because most drug dealers that sell marijuana sell other drugs such as cocaine and heroine. So guess what happens? A kid decides to try weed, and he thinks "hey since they lied about marijuana, these other drugs must be OK too!" So the kid decides to try the other, more harmful drugs.

---

Horribly wrong my friend.

How often do you really think a "kid" has the mind set to go buy drugs (Marijuana) smoke it, and then thinks to himself "Oh this isn't bad so coke isn't either"- Thats illogical thinking on way to many levels, and HARDLY a common case.


Even though its wrong, you also just pretty much laid out a story(Although not common) with the gateway drug effect. Very contradicting.



Although I don't believe weed is NEARLY harmful as many people make it out to be, their are some legit reasons it is illegalized:

A. Too hard to tell how much or even if someone is under the influence (Experienced smokers) You see what trouble this brings, driving, jobs, thought process during crimes, etc.

B. It is coined a "drug" and weather you think it is an incorrect term for it or not, it would be hugely scaring for the country(US) to go back on its word and let a "drug" become legal. (The, "whats next?" mindset would come about)

C. Making marijuana legal would have some sort of inevitable effect of people looking for a "better high". Many people that smoke THC have an open mindset to try new things, and obviously are drawn to perception altering effects. If THC was openly legal, their would be MANY MANY people looking for a stronger high after a while....you see where that leads.

D. Perception is Reality. Lately I hear MANY kids/teens talking about how MDMA (Ecstacy) is virtually "harmless". This is obviously incorrect, but the general consencus on it seems to be leaning towards the "safe" side. (Make no mistake, I'm not saying THC is harmful like MDMA) This goes back to the "whats next" thought process.

E. And finally, like Alcohalism- There would be plenty of "Weed-ism". There will be PLENTY of kids and/or adults that would abuse it. This poses alot of threat from many directions (Demotivation, mental addiction, mishaping futures etc)


Those are just a few reasons. I do believe THC is not physically harmful (Actually I scientifically have studied/know this) However just because something doesn't kill you doesn't mean it's a "golden apple"

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Edit: Oh my god, NOT TO MENTION all the medicinal and general uses of the plant! You know dentists have to use some lethally toxic gas to dry your mouth? It would be much safer to use marijuana! Because of the marijuana ban we can't take advantage of the many uses it has to offer! The hemp plant can be used for paper, rope, clothing, (fuel? I heard somewhere it could somehow be used for fuel, not sure though). Marijuana would help people in chemotherapy tremendously by helping with the nausea and other symptoms. It can be used to help gain weight, and can help ease the glaucoma(spelling?). The list is endless.

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Oh...I wasn't sure if you were aware but THC is already perscribed for many medical reasons as it is; Half of which are stated in the paragraph above.......




I think this post really lost it's course (With no help of my own). I think there are also many many other things that we could all be doing with our lives instead of worrying so much or making weed a focal point of our lives.



I say this post needs to be locked up pretty quick (Not because I'm anti-Marijuana but because of the fact I think we can all agree it's no longer on course and contributing to the section it is in.)

It is already decriminalized in 12 states last time I checked, could be more now. You merely recieve a $100 ticket for getting caught with marijuana in those states.
Yes, I did give an example of a gateway effect, but by legalizing marijuana people wouldn't have to go to dealers selling other illegal drugs, therefore eliminating the issue.
I've only smoked for ~4 years, but I've never even thought of doing more hardcore drugs. I know many people(including relatives!) who have smoked nearly their whole lives, and still don't do other illegal drugs.

Oh...I wasn't sure if you were aware but THC is already perscribed for many medical reasons as it is; Half of which are stated in the paragraph above.......

Ah, didn't know that.
Look, marijuana smokers aren't hurting anyone. Who are you or anyone else to say they can't do what they want as long as they don't hurt anyone?

E. And finally, like Alcohalism- There would be plenty of "Weed-ism". There will be PLENTY of kids and/or adults that would abuse it. This poses alot of threat from many directions (Demotivation, mental addiction, mishaping futures etc)

Alright, let's ban alcohol. Alcohol ruins lives all the time, and it's legal. We can't ban something just because there's a potential for abuse. That's like banning aspirin just because you can OD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sk8bordgeek

I might believe you if you had gone to school to become a doctor... oh wait... that's right... YOU WERE SMOKING A JOINT WITH YOUR FRIENDS INSTEAD!!!

---

Your blind attack on my character shows your struggle with actually finding a good argument against me. You see, I haven't smoked for over a year... plus the fact that I've already attained my Associates Degree and and currently going to college for my Bachelors illustrates that I'm not just a lazy, pathetic stoner. Your perception of us is so pathetically wrong.

i used to smoke majiruana, but i quit because it was making me go insane. i seriously thought i was developing schizophrenia and it was causing me to be really depressed thinking i'm losing my mind. needless to say i quit, it wasnt hard. now i'm not saying that everyone should quit smoking because it will cause you to develope schizophrenia, but drugs arnt for everyone. i just hate when people think they are above others for doing it, same goes for people who think they are above others because they dont.

idk, just random thoughts on weed

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Surrealist

Your blind attack on my character shows your struggle with actually finding a good argument against me. You see, I haven't smoked for over a year... plus the fact that I've already attained my Associates Degree and and currently going to college for my Bachelors illustrates that I'm not just a lazy, pathetic stoner. Your perception of us is so pathetically wrong.

---

Isn't it funny how stoners are viewed as the stupid ones, but in arguments like this it looks like the exact opposite?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by blahaha

Isn't it funny how stoners are viewed as the stupid ones, but in arguments like this it looks like the exact opposite?

---

Now, while I'm not sure you are being sarcastic or not, I'll just go with assuming that you aren't.

I totally agree with you wholeheartedly. You see, when I started smoking I was part of the non-stupid potheads. I was constantly surrounded by people, who like me, didn't smoke and become stupid. We all actually marveled at how much more fluid our thoughts were, and how creativity wasn't something that had to be attempted: you just were.

Don't get me wrong though... for some people pot does tend to make them stupid. I just never understood why, having not experienced that myself. I actually finished half of my Associates Degree while smoking constantly everyday... and I graduated "Summa Cum Laude" (which means highest honors... 3.9 GPA and higher). I also almost never went to take a test without smoking up, because I did impressively better while stoned. Crazy, huh? Well, not to people who aren't brainwashed it isn't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Surrealist

No... I'm just an unbiased observer. I look at all the info with an open mind, and try not to choose what to believe based solely on my "feelings" on the subject.

For example, when anyone says: "Drugs are bad," they are simply stating their belief that all drugs are bad... actually finding solid resources and information to back it up would make it a whole lot more substantial.

Oh... and if they had a PHd in weed... I would be one of the first to enroll in that school. It sounds way to fun to pass up.

---

You could get a masters degree in botany and/or pharmacology and do your masters thesis on the cannabis family and the effects of THC.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

You could get a masters degree in botany and/or pharmacology and do your masters thesis on the cannabis family and the effects of THC.

---

lol... while I love the idea, it just isn't the same. Mainly my reply was a sarcastic response to the sarcastic response of a fellow forum member. He obviously thinks that no one can understand and be knowledgeable about it without having a PHd... or something to that effect.

What he isn't aware of though is the fact that before I even smoked my very first time, I did massive amounts of research on it. I generally found out that the slogan "drugs are bad" isn't always necessarily true, as it's even more true for most legal and prescription drugs out there than weed. You do more harm to your body drinking your daily Venti Triple-shot Carmel Macchiato then by smoking a joint every day.

Haha... straightedge people make me laugh.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drewhet

i used to smoke majiruana, but i quit because it was making me go insane. i seriously thought i was developing schizophrenia and it was causing me to be really depressed thinking i'm losing my mind.

---

Sadly, this is the case for a small group of pot smokers (like a really small chance... getting struck by lightning small). If you already have a genetic disposition for developing schizophrenia, then pot can facilitate the onset of symptoms. Thankfully, even though I have an aunt that has this disorder, pot didn't make me crazy. I'm one of the lucky ones. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

Weed can be very mentally addicting and affect peoples lives in very negative ways, and/or it is also a stepping stone effect to other "drugs."

I personally have experienced both with THC. Not everyone is the same, but the threat is still present. (Ask most Coke or MDMA or any drug addict what they started out with first> Weed is a VERY COMMON answer. If you don't believe this you are blind and havn't spent enough time around these people over reading a book.) Also, almost everyone I know that smokes weed is somewhat lazy and demotivated.

---

This is called propaganda. Ask anyone who was/is addicted to coke or meth or anything if they have ever drank alcohol or a soda before? The answer will be mostly yes. Ask them if they have ever popped a pain pill prescribed by a doctor. The answer is mostly yes. Statistically, it can be shown that weed is NOT any kind of gateway drug to harder drugs. Just because weed is a common answer doesn't mean anything. Tylenol, nicotine, and other legal drugs are common too. It's like saying Hitler and Stalin are bad (to use an example by Richard Dawkins) because they were atheists. Well, first Hitler wasn't, and second, they both have moustaches, they were both men, and they both had hair and wore hats. Just because something is in common with something else, doesn't mean that the first thing caused the second.

Also, I know tons of stoners who aren't lazy, get good grades, and are going places in life. First hand evidence means nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

Although I don't believe weed is NEARLY harmful as many people make it out to be, their are some legit reasons it is illegalized:

A. Too hard to tell how much or even if someone is under the influence (Experienced smokers) You see what trouble this brings, driving, jobs, thought process during crimes, etc.

---

This brings no kind of trouble? If it's a novice smoker, it's easy as hell to tell. If they are experienced, I'm sure they know how to handle their high. That doesn't make it right, however.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

B. It is coined a "drug" and weather you think it is an incorrect term for it or not, it would be hugely scaring for the country(US) to go back on its word and let a "drug" become legal. (The, "whats next?" mindset would come about)

---

It isn't coined a drug, it is a drug. "Drug" is not a term that is only used for illegal substances. All medicinal labels label the said subsance as a drug, whether it be Tylenol or morphine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

C. Making marijuana legal would have some sort of inevitable effect of people looking for a "better high". Many people that smoke THC have an open mindset to try new things, and obviously are drawn to perception altering effects. If THC was openly legal, their would be MANY MANY people looking for a stronger high after a while....you see where that leads.

---

You're vaugely approaching the fallacy of a slippery slope. Have you ever heard of Amsterdam? Most assuredly, you have. Did you happen to know that while it legal though, LESS people smoke it there than in the United States? Did you also know their crime rate is a lot lower and less people are addicted to drugs? Many people who drink alcohol (a legal drug) venture no further. There is a certain mystification that is associated with an illegal thing that makes people want to try it. Legalizing pot would DEFINITELY bring down the amount of people who smoke it. All the other drug rates would stay the same. Weed does not in any way lead to harder drug use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

D. Perception is Reality. Lately I hear MANY kids/teens talking about how MDMA (Ecstacy) is virtually "harmless". This is obviously incorrect, but the general consencus on it seems to be leaning towards the "safe" side. (Make no mistake, I'm not saying THC is harmful like MDMA) This goes back to the "whats next" thought process.

---

MDMA, while not being harmless, is pretty safe. If you know how to be safe (drink enough water to stay hydrated) and don't consume other drugs like alcohol while taking it, you will pretty much be safe. Overdoing anything is what makes something unsafe, and MDMA is no exception.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

E. And finally, like Alcohalism- There would be plenty of "Weed-ism". There will be PLENTY of kids and/or adults that would abuse it. This poses alot of threat from many directions (Demotivation, mental addiction, mishaping futures etc)

---

No there won't. Look again at Amsterdam, pretty much the only place it's legal. Alcoholism is still at a much higher rate. Something being illegal does not stop anyone from doing it. If someone is going to get addicted to smoking weed, illegal or not, it's going to happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

Edit: Oh my god, NOT TO MENTION all the medicinal and general uses of the plant! You know dentists have to use some lethally toxic gas to dry your mouth? It would be much safer to use marijuana! Because of the marijuana ban we can't take advantage of the many uses it has to offer! The hemp plant can be used for paper, rope, clothing, (fuel? I heard somewhere it could somehow be used for fuel, not sure though). Marijuana would help people in chemotherapy tremendously by helping with the nausea and other symptoms. It can be used to help gain weight, and can help ease the glaucoma(spelling?). The list is endless.

---

What gas do dentists use to "dry your mouth"? Could it be...air? In any case, if you mean nitrous oxide, nitrous is not lethally toxic. It's only lethal if you make the dumb move of forgetting to inhale oxygen, something the human body desperately needs.



As for your posts in general, I think they're horrible misinformed and ignorant. Vicodin is totally legal, yet people are still addicted to it. Just because something is illegal doesn't make it any more addicting. Legalizing something, likewise, doesn't make more people go out and get addicted to it.

I wasn't out to make a post (the original post) to advocate marijuana or start an argument about it, but some people chose to use this thread to spread lies about it. I respect those who do not wish to consume it, but I do not respect those people who are ignorant of it, and responsible drug use in general.

Wig-



If you really want to play the break down posts section by section we can do it all day, so humor me:


---------1. Weed is a gateway drug. Comparing the gateway effect to hitler and sodas is what the true definition of "Propaganda" is. There is no doubt that being around weed often times (not always) means being around other drugs. Gateway. Also I, not alone, with MANY other people started smoking weed, which eventually lulled me into a safe comfort that any drug can be handled, and went on for a stronger high. The brain works very very simple, and often times is a gateway drug. (Not always)

(Even a Professor with a PhD in Pharmacology will tell you the same. I had a very unbiased Professor in my first "Drug, Alcohal, Psychology" course. He himself was (possibly still is) a pot smoker. (Among many other things.)


Also, it was a generalization. Just as many stoners as you know that get "Good grades" and are going places I can match with ones that are sitting home getting stoned going nowhere (Probably double) Theres no denying the fact that weed CAN BE ABUSED and can be a huge demotivator (And with human nature, what can be abused will- And as if we aren't already lazy enough)

Most of the time when someone gets high, it's recreational, and nothing producvtive usually comes of it. I can't really think of many productive things I did while I was in a rut of smoking every day a few times a day. Maybe I forgot, and you can tell me.:) (This isn't always the case, but if we are talking about legalizing it we are going to go with the majorities)

You tell me how many kids say, "Hey! You know what, I want to go get super stoned so I can do better in class!" (Usually they are ditching class to smoke;) )


-------2. Brings no kind of trouble? Ehh I almost don't feel like going through with the rest of this post if you fail to see the trouble this could bring. Use commen sense. I would much rather not have a huge amount of drivers under the influence- Maybe you would. Novice, or beginner. Thats just the start, the list of what problems this causes could go on forever: Legal matters, was the person high during the murder, or the crash- Can they claim a temporary state of psychosis, parents not being able to tell if the kid is high all the time now that its easily attainable (Theoretically) people easily mixing drugs, hard or even homeade (Stacking depressants etc) I'll just stop here.


------3. I know much about the term "drug"- I also know much about the makeup and effects (Chemically and Mentally) THC and every other drug has. Regaurdless this changes nothing about what I said in the first place.

Drug: chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being.

My original meaning for the qoutations around the term "drug" was to emphasize the fact that the mass populations views THC as a "drug"(Like cocaine, or Heroine) No matter what you and I may know about it and it's effects doesn't matter, the point still stands. In the general populations eyes it would be comparable to if the government made Cocaine legal (to us) Get it? (Meaning the general population would think it's unthinkable and question what this crazy world has come to and blah blah blah)

Once again, if you don't think that a big majority of the US would react quite adversly if THC were completely legalized your just being blind out of personal taste. (Yea, I'm sure it would go over smooth and have no problems/protests< Sarcasm)



-------4. I can see where your coming from, yet comparing the population and crime rates of Amsterdam to the US is absurd in it's own right. Also, who exactly measures how much weed is smoked in the US? If you think anyone knows a near accurate number (Which wouldn't matter anyway, as were comparing amsterdam to the US here) then your being ignorant. (Blunt, but true.)

Also thinking that putting weed openly in everyones face would actually make the rate drop is blind. (You think if Alcohal were illegal more people would drink it compared to (when legal) anyone over 1/4th of their life spans age can access it any time anywhere without reprecussion?) Give me a break, seriously.



--------5. Overdosing on MDMA is actually not as easy as many think. Drinking alcohal with it will do nothing but slightly level/blurr MDMAs effects as it is a depressant acting on the GABA receptors. MDMA can be harsh on the body, toxic, and most deaths are actually caused by overhydration, not to mention the fact that driving on it is exremely dangerous, decisions while under the influence are usually regretable, and not only does it cause "Scuicide Tuesdays" with a crash in 5-HT (Seratonin) levels but messes with Dopamine levels as well, which leads to a HUGE list of mental related disorders. (Just like any other stimulant.)

Yea your right, MDMA is pretty safe. /end sarcasm

Regaurdless this has nothing to do with the point I was making (Maybe your not comprehending, or I'm miscommunicating) So I really have no idea what you even bothered typing that for, or better yet why I responded.


---------6. If something is legal (Like weed) you can be assured there will be MANY more people that would try it that otherwise never would in their life. (If cigarettes were not legal, do you think there would be more people smoking them? Yea....I think not) It's quite simple, and the comparison of Amsterdam to the whole US isn't even relevant. Also, if it's out in your face, you have a higher rate of abusing it.

(The more times you offer something to more people, the higher number of returns you will get.) Simple fact.


-------7. The last part you pulled from my post WASN'T EVEN FROM MY POST. It was something I pulled from another post (Are you high?;) )




-------8. The last point you made about Vicodin almost made me chuckle for two reasons:

A. I'm not sure where you live, but it's not "totally legal" without perscription in the U.S.

B. Lets say it was legal, - you stated that even though its legal many people are addicted to it(Pretty sweet contradiction to your whole post there.), yet your telling me Marijuana(Which is abused much more than vicodin) won't fall in the same boat...Hahahaha


---------Your very much so talking to the wrong person if you believe I am ignorant to Marijuana and its effects mentally and chemically. Half the things you said had NOTHING to do with the point I was making, and the other half of the time you weren't even reading/comprehending the post as a whole.



I am not simply Anti-Weed. I am an ex-user. I believe weed is one of the least harmful recreational drugs around, and has beneficial medical uses. I don't judge anyone that uses it on a personal level, or chastise them. Everyone is their own person and makes their own decisions. I have seen from both sides of the fence. I was, and still am, simply stating some solid reasons why weed could potentially be harmful if legalized. You seem to be taking it as a personal attack.




Please, if you enjoy smoking weed, by all means do so, and thats great that you respect others who choose not to- But before you respond to a post out of pure personal preferance; Make a note to yourself to actually read and comprehend it in it's entirety, and don't state ignorance while wearing a blindfold.



EDIT: You can get in and say whatever you'd like, I won't be replying because I know we are both not contributing to the post, I made my original points and responded to yours. Anything after is just a flame war. We can simply leave it as agree to disagree here. Good day :)

I'm just going to keep it short and sweet and say that I have a cannabis card and definitely smoke marijuana when I wild.

Sleep paralysis = DMT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

Wig-
------1. Weed is a gateway drug. Comparing the gateway effect to hitler and sodas is what the true definition of "Propaganda" is. There is no doubt that being around weed often times (not always) means being around other drugs. Gateway. Also I, not alone, with MANY other people started smoking weed, which eventually lulled me into a safe comfort that any drug can be handled, and went on for a stronger high. The brain works very very simple, and often times is a gateway drug. (Not always)

(Even a Professor with a PhD in Pharmacology will tell you the same. I had a very unbiased Professor in my first "Drug, Alcohal, Psychology" course. He himself was (possibly still is) a pot smoker. (Among many other things.)


Also, it was a generalization. Just as many stoners as you know that get "Good grades" and are going places I can match with ones that are sitting home getting stoned going nowhere (Probably double) Theres no denying the fact that weed CAN BE ABUSED and can be a huge demotivator (And with human nature, what can be abused will- And as if we aren't already lazy enough)

Most of the time when someone gets high, it's recreational, and nothing producvtive usually comes of it. I can't really think of many productive things I did while I was in a rut of smoking every day a few times a day. Maybe I forgot, and you can tell me.:) (This isn't always the case, but if we are talking about legalizing it we are going to go with the majorities)

You tell me how many kids say, "Hey! You know what, I want to go get super stoned so I can do better in class!" (Usually they are ditching class to smoke;) )

---

No, it's not a damn gateway drug. Being around weed BARELY ever means being around other drugs. The fact is, most people who deal with weed (and deal weed conversely) don't even bother with other drugs.

As for your "probably double" quote, what is that about? You know "probably double" because you see idiots who are burn outs and social outcasts smoking weed. You don't see the people who use it responsibly. I know tons of people that smoke who no one would ever guess smokes. Why? Because they know how to act responsibly. You're assuming the majority of the human race is immature. As for how may kids say they smoke weed bfore class to "do better" I've honestly never heard anyone say that. Ever. I tried going to class high once to see what it was like. I was paranoid as hell and didn't even pay attention because I was concentrating on not being high and getting caught. I've never done it again. I'd imagine many are like me and aren't going to sacrafice their education for a high. Then again, I'm in higher education. Are you talking about junior high?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

-------2. Brings no kind of trouble? Ehh I almost don't feel like going through with the rest of this post if you fail to see the trouble this could bring. Use commen sense. I would much rather not have a huge amount of drivers under the influence- Maybe you would. Novice, or beginner. Thats just the start, the list of what problems this causes could go on forever: Legal matters, was the person high during the murder, or the crash- Can they claim a temporary state of psychosis, parents not being able to tell if the kid is high all the time now that its easily attainable (Theoretically) people easily mixing drugs, hard or even homeade (Stacking depressants etc) I'll just stop here.

---

Neither would I. Which is why most "stoners" are responsible enough to realize their high and don't drive. No one has ever heard of someone getting killed or hurt because someone was high while driving. This is because no one wants to waste their high worrying about driving. It's already illegal to drive while under the influence (of any drug). It's not that hard to figure out. If you get caught doing it, it's a DUI. Same punishments as alcohol. The only problem is, you were probably going too slow on a freeway. Heaven forbid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

------3. I know much about the term "drug"- I also know much about the makeup and effects (Chemically and Mentally) THC and every other drug has. Regaurdless this changes nothing about what I said in the first place.

Drug: chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being.

My original meaning for the qoutations around the term "drug" was to emphasize the fact that the mass populations views THC as a "drug"(Like cocaine, or Heroine) No matter what you and I may know about it and it's effects doesn't matter, the point still stands. In the general populations eyes it would be comparable to if the government made Cocaine legal (to us) Get it? (Meaning the general population would think it's unthinkable and question what this crazy world has come to and blah blah blah)

Once again, if you don't think that a big majority of the US would react quite adversly if THC were completely legalized your just being blind out of personal taste. (Yea, I'm sure it would go over smooth and have no problems/protests< Sarcasm)

---

I'll excuse your pompous suggestion that you know about the makeup and effect of "every other drug".

As for society viewing it as a drug, that doesn't make it right in any away. Racism was hugely rampant in the 1920s, and it wasn't right. Women couldn't vote until very recently and it was not right. Slavery was huge in teh 1700s and 1800s and it wasn't right. Just because something is, doesn't mean it should be.

As for it going over smooth, the only people who would bitch is the Christian right. If not, why are tons of left wing states legalizing marijuana for medical use? If not, why are polls constantly showing up voting for the decriminilization, indeed the LEGALIZATION, of weed? Nevada recently had a vote to legalize and sell in stores. It didn't pass by 6%.

I'm not being blind out of personal taste. I barely ever smoke. I just know that the huge drug war is fucking retarded and not worthy of taxpayers money. It makes criminals out of people who are not violent. It's stupid. And you making these kind of posts do not help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

-------4. I can see where your coming from, yet comparing the population and crime rates of Amsterdam to the US is absurd in it's own right. Also, who exactly measures how much weed is smoked in the US? If you think anyone knows a near accurate number (Which wouldn't matter anyway, as were comparing amsterdam to the US here) then your being ignorant. (Blunt, but true.)

Also thinking that putting weed openly in everyones face would actually make the rate drop is blind. (You think if Alcohal were illegal more people would drink it compared to (when legal) anyone over 1/4th of their life spans age can access it any time anywhere without reprecussion?) Give me a break, seriously.

---

No, it's not absurd. Why would it be? Because the United States is retarded in it's crime laws? Well, I can give you that one.

As for how much weed is smoked, polling is remarkbly accurate. You only need to poll, out of the whole USA about 1,500 people to get an accuracy rating that's about two points off either way. This is fact, not something I dug up out of my ass. You're being ignorant by assuming it's impossible to measure something like this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

--------5. Overdosing on MDMA is actually not as easy as many think. Drinking alcohal with it will do nothing but slightly level/blurr MDMAs effects as it is a depressant acting on the GABA receptors. MDMA can be harsh on the body, toxic, and most deaths are actually caused by overhydration, not to mention the fact that driving on it is exremely dangerous, decisions while under the influence are usually regretable, and not only does it cause "Scuicide Tuesdays" with a crash in 5-HT (Seratonin) levels but messes with Dopamine levels as well, which leads to a HUGE list of mental related disorders. (Just like any other stimulant.)

Yea your right, MDMA is pretty safe. /end sarcasm

Regaurdless this has nothing to do with the point I was making (Maybe your not comprehending, or I'm miscommunicating) So I really have no idea what you even bothered typing that for, or better yet why I responded.

---

Drinking alcohol with MDMA will further dehydrate you. They both act as dehydrators, and how you failed to see this is stunning to me since you are seemingly coming off as an "intelluctual". Most deaths are caused by overhydration because people are afraid of letting it dehydrate them so they overcompensate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

---------6. If something is legal (Like weed) you can be assured there will be MANY more people that would try it that otherwise never would in their life. (If cigarettes were not legal, do you think there would be more people smoking them? Yea....I think not) It's quite simple, and the comparison of Amsterdam to the whole US isn't even relevant. Also, if it's out in your face, you have a higher rate of abusing it.

(The more times you offer something to more people, the higher number of returns you will get.) Simple fact.

---

Yeah, with cigarettes I can agree because people know the effect of them. But little kids from junior high to high school will still smoke them tons simply because of rebellion. They ARE illegal for them, and they smoke them. Stop saying Amsterdam vs. United States isn't relevant, because it is. The only reason you say that is because if throws all your stupid points out of the window. In Amsterdam, you can smoke on the damn street. The most people that smoke there are tourists from other countries who can't do so legally in theirs so it's a thrill to smoke on the street. Legalize weed, and I promise you you will see less people smoking weed than cigarettes. It's not going to change dramatically, and if anything, it will go down because it becomes less risky to smoke it and half the thrill is gone anyway. It's no secret many kids stop drinking once they reach the age of 21.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

-------7. The last part you pulled from my post WASN'T EVEN FROM MY POST. It was something I pulled from another post (Are you high?;) )

---

No I wasn't. Are you unable to figure out how to use the quote button? Your posts are already jumbled and thrown around as it is, so excuse me if I can't figure out who is who when you don't quote someone. If you don't quote, I have to assume you wrote it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

-------8. The last point you made about Vicodin almost made me chuckle for two reasons:

A. I'm not sure where you live, but it's not "totally legal" without perscription in the U.S.

B. Lets say it was legal, - you stated that even though its legal many people are addicted to it(Pretty sweet contradiction to your whole post there.), yet your telling me Marijuana(Which is abused much more than vicodin) won't fall in the same boat...Hahahaha

---

I meant it was totally legal with a prescription. I'm saying Vicodin is more abused than marijuana because it is. It's more addicting, physically and mentally and therefore HAS TO be more abused. There's no other choice. If you get addicted to Vicodin, you're abusing it. It no longer becomes recreational. People who smoke weed don't abuse it simply becasue there's nothing to abuse. No withdrawal is present, and you don't accuse someone of abusing caffeine to stay awake to do something do you? I won't accuse someone of using weed to enhance a movie or television show, just as long as they can stop when needed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

---------Your very much so talking to the wrong person if you believe I am ignorant to Marijuana and its effects mentally and chemically. Half the things you said had NOTHING to do with the point I was making, and the other half of the time you weren't even reading/comprehending the post as a whole.

---

The only point you're making is that weed shouldn't be legalized, which is stupid. Smarter men than you have come along to say it should be (and I'm not saying I'm one of them).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alprazolam

I am not simply Anti-Weed. I am an ex-user. I believe weed is one of the least harmful recreational drugs around, and has beneficial medical uses. I don't judge anyone that uses it on a personal level, or chastise them. Everyone is their own person and makes their own decisions. I have seen from both sides of the fence. I was, and still am, simply stating some solid reasons why weed could potentially be harmful if legalized. You seem to be taking it as a personal attack.

Please, if you enjoy smoking weed, by all means do so, and thats great that you respect others who choose not to- But before you respond to a post out of pure personal preferance; Make a note to yourself to actually read and comprehend it in it's entirety, and don't state ignorance while wearing a blindfold.

EDIT: You can get in and say whatever you'd like, I won't be replying because I know we are both not contributing to the post, I made my original points and responded to yours. Anything after is just a flame war. We can simply leave it as agree to disagree here. Good day :)

---

I'm not taking it as a personal attack, I'm taking it as you spreading the wrong information. Your using information that is not backed up (how many people smoke out in the USA). You frequently do this, as can be seen with the smelling in dreams post we argued in. I responded with links and articles confirming my point, you just said I was wrong. There's no reason to cite anything in this post because you simply won't look.

You're the one using a blindfold. Weed can be as harmful as any drug, but that shouldn't be stopping it from being legalized. It hurts NO ONE other than the person who uses it, if it even hurts them. It's not like alcohol where judgements are imparied and you go for a drive. It just doesn't work like that. It's not like nicotine where it is a damn poison and fucks up your lungs in cigarette form. It's not heroin where it gets you addicted and drains your money supply on it.

You're just being silly. As for you not responding, I'm sure. That's a huge cop out to anything. And as for being on topic, I believe you were one of the guys who bitched about no one doing it in this post, and then you went ahead and did it yourself. The topic will never get back on, so might as well use it for this now. I think you should keep your personal opinions to youself however, and stop stating them as fact.

My friends....
there is no need to argue.
To each his own.

There are those who remain sober,
and there are those that experiment with natures entheogens.

The goal of the shaman is to induce nonordinary reality without entheogens.

Open up your crown chakra, listen to god, and there is no need to argue or even speak.

(((om)))