Thread: Ideal time for WBTB/WILD method, Based on REM Sleep Cycle?

Hi there,
I've become interested in doing the Wake Back to Bed (WBTB) method in order to maximize the chance of doing a successful Wake-Induced Lucid Dream (WILD).

The problem is that there seems to be no consensus as to the perfect window of opportunity to do this. One thread recommends 5-6 hours after falling asleep, Clairity uses 3-4 hours, I've seen others use 4.5 hours (after three full 90-minute cycles). Of course, each person's sleep cycle varies slightly, but we're talking about norms here.

So I'm trying to persue this scientifically, but the various graphs I've found on the internet differ:









I think the problem is that some of the charts only have 4 REM periods, while most others have 5. Also, some graphs include a period of time to fall asleep, while others do not. There is also a disagreement over first onset of REM (which I think generally should start at 70-90 minutes, and last 10 minutes). I trust the first one the most, because its by the drug company Merck, and is not oversimplified (actually shows that REM periods are interrupted by light sleep).

From this, it seems like the ideal time to attempt WBTB is exactly 4 hours after you fall asleep. This is for several reasons:

1) The consensus from the graphs is that the first two REM periods are spaced widely apart from each other and subsequent REM periods. Thus, there are too much non-REM (nREM) periods to make WILD succesful.
2) The last three REM periods are spaced closely together, so the chance of hitting REM is much greater when you fall asleep.
3) The first two REM periods are also only 7 and 14 minutes long respectively (from the last chart). However, the last three are 21, 28, and 35 minutes, which increases the likelihood and incentive to try at this period.
4) Interestingly, only the last three REM periods are interrupted by light sleep (see the first graph by Merck). I don't know the implications of this, but I would imagine it might create enough alertness to recognize that it's a lucid dream through the Mnemonic-Induced Lucid Dream (MILD) technique.
5) According to the first chart, waking up at 4 hours is exactly prior to the start of the third REM cycle. Presuming if you "start right where you left off" if you only take a 1 minute bathroom break before falling back asleep, you would enter REM almost immediately.

Also, Four hours is a practical time because its exactly half as much as you should sleep (by general consensus). If I sleep for 6 hours, there's a risk I won't fall back asleep because I've already recovered a lot. It's also a great time to empty the bladder (not too early, not too late for those with small bladders)!


I'm going to get up after 4 hours, go to the bathroom, and then switch to sleeping on my full-length couch (per Clarity's suggestion), and try to WILD immediately.

Thoughts?