Thread: Getting to SP actively ("second eyelid")

Does that mean reverse-blinking isn't very effective? Now I'm confused

I dont understand how to close my "second eyelids" can you me explain again?

I think he may mean that he can feel his dream eyes and he's closing them. Im probably wrong...

I didn't mean I actually feel second eyelids, but that's the best way to describe it, like closing dream eyes as Xyn puts it.

You focus your eyes upwards and it's like imaginary eyelids are closing, feels like you're not looking at anything.

Oh alright =)

I know exactly what your talking about. I also can acheive SP REALLY easily. After only a few seconds even. I've also managed to reach SP in the car once. Personally all I do is close my eyes and focus and blackness of it, keeping my mind as detached as possible. Then I will start to feel heavy and a blanket of darkness will fall over my eyes, making it darker, a few seconds later another blanket of darkness will fall, the place grows even darker, Im still focusing on the blackness and usually Im counting. My legs will start to feel heavy. For some reason--I know this is bad--but if I try to move my legs, (just a little) and I can't, my SP is magnafied even more. Until basically I can't move a muscle even if I wanted to. All of this usually happens within the first five minutes. But yes it is like metophorically, "Closing a third eye." And looking up does help too.

Awesome, this is a good idea. Whenever I even look at a dark corner, I can still see color, just not the same color if it were lit up. It's creepy; I have cat eyes I guess. Therefore, when I close my eyes, I can always see random blots of color and random fuzzy images. So this should really help, even if it is sort of a
psychological trick. Good thinking.

If you get SP it's very easy to escape into a LD. Imagine that you are turning very slowly like a log as if your were forcing yourself against a sticky substance. When you get turned through at least 90 degrees or so simply change direction and start to spin forcefully. You can also imagine that you are lying in a miniature, horizontal tornado that sort of falls on you until your body is what feels spinning. A more simple method to unhook is to pretend that you are standing at a wall at the other side of your room and try to feel the details of its surface with your hands until your dream body gets solid enough to mask out the sensations coming from your laying body.

Another way to get hooked out is to sort of sink into and through the center of your body with a couple of deep exhalation then shift your focal point out and up to the top of your head. You can establish your focal point there with a couple of deep inhalations while which also help to invoke the feelings of expansion. When all this happens naturally it may feel like you would turn inside out at your stomach finding yourself lying in the opposite direction in bed. You may already have experienced this while drifting on and off to sleep.

Originally Posted by transflux

If you get SP it's very easy to escape into a LD. Imagine that you are turning very slowly like a log as if your were forcing yourself against a sticky substance. When you get turned through at least 90 degrees or so simply change direction and start to spin forcefully. You can also imagine that you are lying in a miniature, horizontal tornado that sort of falls on you until your body is what feels spinning. A more simple method to unhook is to pretend that you are standing at a wall at the other side of your room and try to feel the details of its surface with your hands until your dream body gets solid enough to mask out the sensations coming from your laying body.

Another way to get hooked out is to sort of sink into and through the center of your body with a couple of deep exhalation then shift your focal point out and up to the top of your head. You can establish your focal point there with a couple of deep inhalations while which also help to invoke the feelings of expansion. When all this happens naturally it may feel like you would turn inside out at your stomach finding yourself lying in the opposite direction in bed. You may already have experienced this while drifting on and off to sleep.

These are very helpful. Thank you!! I always have trouble with the next stage. The other night I tried to "roll into my dream" I thought it was working but instead I ended up rolling my entire body over and totally destroying the deep SP I had created. VERY frustrating. Maybe Ill have more luck with your methods.

I know what you mean, but I normally think of it as just relaxing my eyes. I find that if I focus on my eyes while they are closed, it seems to me like they are still trying to see something. I would compare it to when you think your completely relaxing all muscles but going through your different body parts you find that one of your muscles is still flexed, this often happens in my shoulder. And like you said "looking up" helps with this.

Originally Posted by cygnus

Does that mean reverse-blinking isn't very effective? Now I'm confused

Reverse blinking is super effective, i've used it many times. It can help induce a trance state, bring on serious HI and even somehow stimulates DILD's for some of us. This second set of eyelids thing does sound very intriguing though.

I totally know what you mean (I think ) I started doing that "closing the dream eyes" thing a few months ago, didn't really do anything with it, but I did notice that when I did it and continued to do it when falling asleep, that I fell asleep a lot quicker.
I will definitely try this method. It is very hard to explain what to do with the eyes but I think you did a good job!

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

In WILD discussions people advise to be passive in order to reach sleep paralysis and most usually say they take some time to reach the state.

I still haven't been able to successfully have a WILD (almost there) but getting SP is rather easy (after some hours of sleep of course).
Through my on and off attempts about a year ago I discovered that it was possible to reach SP quickly with an active method.

When you close your eyelids total darkness doesn't come, you still see those colours and lights similar to HI. The trick to reach SP is also closing the "second eyelids" (it doesn't seem very much darker but rather "deeper").
I achieve that by what can best be described as looking up (I don't think my eyes actually move) and "closing" an invisible second set of eyelids. When I do that and keep my mind empty (after 5-6 hours of sleep), immediately I start to feel a light version of the sinking sensation that precedes SP (the more relaxed my body his the strong the sensation is). After that, in a matter of seconds or few minutes (depends on how much concentrated and relaxed I am) I get THE sinking sensation and SP sets in.


Just wanted to share this "method" with you and know if anyone else has done it before.

How can you NOT WILD once you've entered SP? I don't understand it...I presumed SP was the hurdle, not WILD'ing after you've entered SP. What's holding you back? o.0

I can reach sp easily, so far all the times i have got to it i haven't tried but still. I wake up in the middle of the night and just let my mind wander and then before i know it i am in sp. I haven't tried to induce a lucid yet from this so i don't know how hard it is.

Scatterbrain:
I know what you mean by closing your second eyelids, as I have been meditating for years now and I use this method from time to time to get some deeper experience. I haven't tried to do it for lucid dreams but will give it a try tonight.
Thanks, sea bee (a sailor forever)

(during this week I was away with no internet, left a note about it on the signature but apparently it was not activated)

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

How can you NOT WILD once you've entered SP? I don't understand it...I presumed SP was the hurdle, not WILD'ing after you've entered SP. What's holding you back? o.0

The hard part for me is to ignore the sp hallucinations (I get alot of those) and to slip into a dream.

Lately I have been trying almost everyday, and only two times I got close to ld through WILD, but it was a kind of cheating:

- In the first almost-successful attempt I managed to not get physical sensations and got rid of the feeling of being in bed, HI started but then I lost consciousness. A few seconds or minutes (probably) later I "woke up" in a surreal scenery, after a brief wtf moment I remembered I was attempting to WILD and tried to move but still felt a bit stuck and eventually woke up.
- The second time I achieved it much more quickly and unintentionally (woke up, closed eyes with intentions to sleep and it appeared out of the blue), although the dream was 100% vivid it was very unstable too and only lasted 5 seconds (I don't think I was paralysed in this one).

The physical sensations thing is very frustrating, no matter how hard I try to detach sometimes it's just impossible to not pay attention to them, it's like my mind is plotting against me. 6 hours from now I'll be trying something like transflux's techniques.


Good to know that most of you understood or already knew what I was talking about with the "second eyelids". Post back the results.


##EDIT##
Haha... the new signature only appears in posts after the alteration. But now that I removed it in the control panel it also got removed from the post.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut_Jeff777

How can you NOT WILD once you've entered SP? I don't understand it...I presumed SP was the hurdle, not WILD'ing after you've entered SP. What's holding you back? o.0

Don't assume that SP and WILD necessarily go hand in hand; they don't. They often do but they don't have to . In most of my successful WILDs, I never experienced SP while still awake. And I've also experienced SP without WILD.

Originally Posted by iwishicouldld

These are very helpful. Thank you!! I always have trouble with the next stage. The other night I tried to "roll into my dream" I thought it was working but instead I ended up rolling my entire body over and totally destroying the deep SP I had created. VERY frustrating. Maybe Ill have more luck with your methods.

I'm sorry but I had the most hilarous mental image of that for some reason, you suddenly bursting out of SP and just falling out your bed family guy style *shakes head vigorously to drive thought out*.

SP in a few seconds though? That's crazy awesome, I've been trying for weeks and cant seem to get it...

I think many people confuse SP with relaxation or even say SP instead of relaxation. When you are aware of that you are in SP (it's called ASP in clinical literature) you can't move. Well its not quite true...( I know many types and degrees of SP). The point is that you either don't want to move because you are deeply occupied with something (might be remembered later as having been unconscious) or you dream about that you are awake and lying on your bed desperately trying to stop your thought processes.

During a typical ASP episode your physical body won't move but you would almost always believe in the opposite. Instead of your physical body you would move with a second, or a third body (that may seem to come out of the second one). On your first hundred or so occasions no way you could be sure that its not your physical body that moves in a way or another. Why you would think the opposite when it feels so? We automatically accept our sensory experiences as reality.

But quite interestingly you would always know for sure when you are awake, but remain insecure about your condition in similar situations during dreams. The techniques I described may not work until you fully realize yourself being in SP and get used to that special feel or unmistakably quality of awareness that comes with that state. The methods I described are designed specifically to unlock your dream body while already immobilised, although they do have some push effect too, that helps to induce paralysis. Hope it makes sense.

I think many people confuse SP with relaxation or even say SP instead of relaxation.

I suspect you are right about this.

When you are aware of that you are in SP (it's called ASP in clinical literature) you can't move. Well its not quite true...( I know many types and degrees of SP). The point is that you either don't want to move because you are deeply occupied with something (might be remembered later as having been unconscious) or you dream about that you are awake and lying on your bed desperately trying to stop your thought processes.

Well, real sleep paralysis occurs because glycyine (an amino acid and neurotransmitter) is produced in medulla oblongata (the lower part of the brain stem). The signals that control the skeleton muscles pass through medulla oblongata, and the effect of glycine is that the nerve impulses are inhibited. In other words it's entirely a physical effect, and you won't be able to move no matter how much you want to.

Originally Posted by Thor

I suspect you are right about this.

That's pretty much a guarantee.

Originally Posted by Tmer

Oh alright =)

what does DILD:2 WILD:3 MILD:1 and DEILD:2 mean?? And what does this mean Lds: 8(worthy ld's) ...like what do they stand for!??? Lol sorry i prolly sound really stupid right abt now!!!

DV Dictionary - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

In WILD discussions people advise to be passive in order to reach sleep paralysis and most usually say they take some time to reach the state.

I still haven't been able to successfully have a WILD (almost there) but getting SP is rather easy (after some hours of sleep of course).
Through my on and off attempts about a year ago I discovered that it was possible to reach SP quickly with an active method.

When you close your eyelids total darkness doesn't come, you still see those colours and lights similar to HI. The trick to reach SP is also closing the "second eyelids" (it doesn't seem very much darker but rather "deeper").
I achieve that by what can best be described as looking up (I don't think my eyes actually move) and "closing" an invisible second set of eyelids. When I do that and keep my mind empty (after 5-6 hours of sleep), immediately I start to feel a light version of the sinking sensation that precedes SP (the more relaxed my body his the strong the sensation is). After that, in a matter of seconds or few minutes (depends on how much concentrated and relaxed I am) I get THE sinking sensation and SP sets in.


Just wanted to share this "method" with you and know if anyone else has done it before.

what is an sp??