Thread: Dabbling in the occult...huh???

Welcome to Dream Views!
Congratulations on getting your first Lucid! That didn't seem so evil did it.


Some people insist on living in the stone ages. Oh well, too bad for them.
Don't bother trying to explain it to them, I highly doubt they will come around.
They may even try to burn you alive at the stake.

Well maybe not, but they will probably argue and argue about how evil it is. they may even shout and spit too.

If they think it's demonic, it's probably useless to try to reason with them. Just don't talk with them about it anymore. Not your loss.

Lucid dreaming can easily seem mystical, so it helps to present it as scientifically as possible. It probably also helps to not mention the more fantastic aspects of dream control.

Yes, remember, its their loss, not theirs.
Try not to let them get to you because you know in the end that you're still having you're fun with lucid dreaming!

Originally Posted by xXevangelaXx

I thought christianity was a bit more opened minded.

Very often not.


I disagree with those who told you to not mention it anymore.

Your misinformed loved ones need you to educate them on this subject .

Those who are intolerant need people to keep pestering them about their bigotry until they decide to actually THINK about their prejudices.

Feed them to the lions.

Originally Posted by xXevangelaXx

I thought christianity was a bit more opened minded.

Religion? Open minded? I call shenanigans.

On a serious note however, you have 3 options: A: Try and teach them, educate them and show them relevant information including books. B: Forget about it, move on and don't talk to them about it or C: Care about people who don't keep their heads in the gutter.

I went through the same thing with the occult. I practised for a while, realised that much of what I was doing was not evil, scary or destructive and wanted to educate some Christian friends about it. - Exobyte's A.

Then I tried caring about people who didn't think I was on a highway to Hell. I'm now trying to find ways to re-establish regular with my family.

So, I'd go with just don't talk about it. Problem is, this isn't satisfying is it? If I respect someone, I want them to know the truth. If I have pegged them as an idiot, I don't mind that their ideas are false.

Originally Posted by xXevangelaXx

How do i explain to people that i care about, who happen to be christians, that Lucid Dreaming isn't as demonic as they say it is?
Im really fustrated, these are people i look up to for guidance, and now they are telling me to stop dablling in the occult? I thought christianity was a bit more opened minded.

Anyways, I had my first lucid dream last night, and i am so happy, i just wish more people could understand this amazing phenomenon...

It is the Naivety. The Ignorance of Dogmatic Religious, therefor commonly seen amongst religious people.

You CAN however extract christian Guidance WITHOUT having to take the Judgement of their Conserative, Xenophobic Minds:

Ask these people what the bible says about Dreaming because you are inspired by and interrested in Dreams. I believe king Solomon once had a Lucid Dream where he describes how his Body was asleep, but his heart awoke. Google/Wikipedia search for that too. Your Christian friends may know what the Bible has to say about Dreams. There's plenty of Lucid Dreams in the Bible; Up to you to recognise them and pick them out of your Friend's words about their bible knowledge on Dreams.

Dreams are Divine Visions so I wonder how Religious people could POSSIBLY be affraid of things like Lucid Dreaming, Out of Body Experiences and other such Spiritual Tools. You'd expect them to be very interrested in such practices as means of what they would call "Getting closer to God". Instead they have Reduced their "Spirituality" to Reading letters of a Book and going to a Church to pray. Tell your Christian friends that they should see Lucid Dreaming as a very effective extention of the power of their prayer, and that they shouldn't fear Divine States of Consciousness/Being when they intend to be People of God.

Thanks everyone for the guidance, the more I realize how misguided my friends and family really are, and how they all agree with the same concept, that "lucid dreaming" is demonic, the more i feel a strong aversion to christianity....
Perhaps i need to do some soul searching for this one, why does Religion/Spirituality have to be so bloody confusing? Haha, probably not the best place to be asking that question...thanks anyways guys, atleast i know somebody understands me
oh and i've kinda given up on explaining lucid dreaming to them, i tried real hard, gave scriptures and examples, but they just won't listen? They prefer ignorance

In the Christian Bible, the Saviour was announced in a dream, important information was given to a king in a dream about his kingdom and the kingdoms that would reign after him. Jacob, who was later named Israel, dreamed of a ladder to heaven with angels ascending and descending on it. Joseph, Jacob's son, had a dream that really upset his brothers when he shared it with them, and he later had a dream that foretold a famine.

Yet, in spite of the references to dreaming in the Bible, it's easy to receive off-the-wall responses and responses of outright fear and dismay when attempting to discuss dream experiences with Christian friends. Some of these responses involve fear when admitting you have heard a foreign word in a dream. "Oh! That's demonic!" was the response. My forehead wrinkled up with puzzlement. After all, I did nothing to encourage it. I heard what I heard. People see in dreams, right? Why isn't it okay to hear in dreams?

Fundamentalist Christianity would say it is of the occult, Native Americans would see it as a spiritual quest, spiritualists would see it as an opportunity to reach out to contact otherworldy inhabitants, psychotherapists would see it as a way to understand your mind, Wicca would see it as a source of magick, and Aborigines would see dreaming as the more true world as the 3D world as the illusion. Charismatic Christians might see dreaming as part of their spirituality, and the writing down of dreams to encourage spiritual visions. Christianity would say that any religion that acknowledges the paranormal realm is deceived and under control of the devil. Since everyone dreams, or should dream, and dreaming is part of the paranormal realm, that seems illogical.

http://www.socyberty.com/Paranormal/...ous-Fear.13912

Originally Posted by xXevangelaXx

Perhaps i need to do some soul searching for this one, why does Religion/Spirituality have to be so bloody confusing? Haha, probably not the best place to be asking that question...thanks anyways guys, atleast i know somebody understands me

If it wasn't confusing, it wouldn't be religion. Good for you for thinking about it. Don't give up thinking critically. But don't expect anyone to thank you for using your reason.

I thought christianity was a bit more opened minded.

It's not Christianity that's liek that, but just very often Christian's.

For example. Christianity doesn't teach that there is no moral lucid dreaming, Christian's do. Christianity does not teach that evolution is impossible, Christian's do. etc. etc.

Paul said 'be all things to all people' encouraging open mindedness. I hope you don't judge a religion based on the people you know invovled in it, but more by it's priniciple's and or the best of peeps that the religion has to offer.

At any rate, there is nothing to suggest this Biblically and as a Christian I feel totally comfortable exploring lucidity. In essence, at tleast to me, it is just learning to be in tune with your sub-conciouss. We all have decent control over our conciouss minds because we use it and practice with it. I think we have equal potential to be in control of our sub-conciouss. We just need to use it.

Perhaps if you took that angle? God gave us different aspects of our complex mind, why limit ourselves to only exploring part of it?

Originally Posted by spockman

It's not Christianity that's liek that, but just very often Christian's.

For example. Christianity doesn't teach that there is no moral lucid dreaming, Christian's do. Christianity does not teach that evolution is impossible, Christian's do. etc. etc.

Paul said 'be all things to all people' encouraging open mindedness. I hope you don't judge a religion based on the people you know invovled in it, but more by it's priniciple's and or the best of peeps that the religion has to offer.

At any rate, there is nothing to suggest this Biblically and as a Christian I feel totally comfortable exploring lucidity. In essence, at tleast to me, it is just learning to be in tune with your sub-conciouss. We all have decent control over our conciouss minds because we use it and practice with it. I think we have equal potential to be in control of our sub-conciouss. We just need to use it.

Perhaps if you took that angle? God gave us different aspects of our complex mind, why limit ourselves to only exploring part of it?

People define most things. Christianity was at one point a moral and righteous religion for people to take in their lives. People would commend them on life discipline and morality. Not any more.

Same as other major religions I won't go into. There is one other main religion we all base our views on strongly, based on a few bad apples.

Is it right? No. But you have to accept it is the way it is.

Anyone willing to state flat-out that it is demonic you will probably have trouble bringing around to your point of view. I guess you could try to test the waters and see if there is anyone who doesn't denounce it flat-out. You could try saying "I had a dream where I knew I was dreaming" and feigning ignorance, rather than using the term "lucid dream". Often times people will say they've had a similar experience, or just be intrigued. Giving LDing a name is sometimes enough to throw people off, I have no clue why Anyway if you get anyone else into it, then it will be the 2+ of you against the rest, and I think your odds of proving it's not the occult will be up. Good luck.

In the meantime, well Congrats on your first LD! And there are thousands of people on this site who are very willing to share your experience with you and celebrate

I just think that's really weird that they consider awareness of dreaming to be anything but a cool glitch in a dream.

Originally Posted by LobbyDonut

I just think that's really weird that they consider awareness of dreaming to be anything but a cool glitch in a dream.

Ah well see I consider it weird to think of it as a glitch, I'm keeping an open mind until more of the science of it has been figured out. Who says it's a glitch at all?

Maybe I chose the wrong word. I just think that lucid dreaming is a totally normal and not supernatural thing, and it baffles me that anyone could think that it would have anything to do with "dark forces" and such.

Originally Posted by DreamChaser

People define most things. Christianity was at one point a moral and righteous religion for people to take in their lives. People would commend them on life discipline and morality. Not any more.

Same as other major religions I won't go into. There is one other main religion we all base our views on strongly, based on a few bad apples.

Is it right? No. But you have to accept it is the way it is.

You can accept it... or you can try to change that perception. Or at least rise above it. I accpet what you just aid as true, but not as what it ought to be. I try and not let it discourage me.

Originally Posted by spockman

You can accept it... or you can try to change that perception. Or at least rise above it. I accpet what you just aid as true, but not as what it ought to be. I try and not let it discourage me.

Well you can personally try to rise above it, but in the general concensus.....well....good luck. I think that stigma is stuck.
One voice cannot be heard among millions.
I wish you well.

im christian, and this is NOT demonic AT ALL. nobody i know has a problem with it. god wouldnt make us have dreams if they were at all demonic. people who think that LDing is evil, arent sane. Dreams are more or less and extension of human thoughts. the brain is just functions a little differently while asleep. being able to control your dreams is a plus, and nothing more than any other skill in life, like playing golf.

God damn anyone who says lucidity is evil. Those people are insane and the ones who dont understand are the ones who are in an 'occult'

Originally Posted by xXevangelaXx

Thanks everyone for the guidance, the more I realize how misguided my friends and family really are, and how they all agree with the same concept, that "lucid dreaming" is demonic, the more i feel a strong aversion to christianity....
Perhaps i need to do some soul searching for this one, why does Religion/Spirituality have to be so bloody confusing? Haha, probably not the best place to be asking that question...thanks anyways guys, atleast i know somebody understands me
oh and i've kinda given up on explaining lucid dreaming to them, i tried real hard, gave scriptures and examples, but they just won't listen? They prefer ignorance

I know how you feel about the aversion to Christianity thing. However, the narrow mindedness of your fellow Christians should not stray you from your faith. People who are narrow minded will be so regardless of their religion or lack there of. Stay true to what you believe in regardless of what others tell you is right or wrong. Instead of listening to others, definitely do some soul searching and find the truth out for yourself. But just remember, that not all Christians are narrow minded. My father is a minister and I absolutely love Lucid dreaming and am very open minded about other "occult" matters (not that I believe they are occult, but that others might). The truth is, people will be themselves regardless of what they label themselves (a.k.a. Christian) just do what's right for you. Who can blame you?

Also, don't match their close mindedness with your own. Open yourself to their argument. If you can not argue against your belief then how can you ever argue for your belief. Understand how they think and attack their logic from that point of view. Step inside of their shoes, walk around, feel what its like and then you will understand where they are coming from and how you can best explain to them how harmless Lucid dreaming really is.

My advice is leave it be. They seem closed minded and judgmental (and they probably think non-believers are closed minded...the irony)
Anyway, I once did Amway a long time ago and found it is almost impossible to change pre-conceived beliefs of something.
Just hope they accidentally become lucid one night and yell "Blasphemer!" at them. Hehe.