Thread: Logic

It's funny you should post this because I was actually thinking about this problem yesterday and I realised that it is pretty much the biggest obstacle to getting me lucid more often. I was at work so I asked an anasthesiologist about why we accept crazy things in our dreams without questioning them. He said it's because we are dettached from the part of our brain responsible for deductive reasoning.

I am currently working on ways to address this problem myself. If I come up with any solutions I'll be putting up a thread with a big bold heading you can be sure of that.

I've been having thoughts about how to resolve this issue too,
Had a eureka moment last night in fact.
I'm not going to share it just yet, and not because i'm wanting to be all cryptic, so sorry, just I want to formulate the ideas first so it's not one big rambling mess.

I've been pondering on how I would work on it. But once you got yours sorted out I've love you hear it. Anything helps!

Originally Posted by shotbirds

I seem to lose 100% of logical reasoning in my dreams :/ and I believe this is what is keeping me from getting lucid more often.

Any tips or techniques that will increase logic in dreams . I've been keeping a journal and listing common themes/settings but doesn't seem to be working that well.

Most people think it's logic but it's waking memory that is missing. The only waking memory in dreams is pattern recognition. You recognize who you see and what you see but no recollection of any waking memory associated with them unless it's a near waking dream or a morning dream or something that you have been doing for years as part of your waking life. As a result there is no comparison to create 'logic' in dreams...it's annoying but it's there. The dreamsign method I used in the past is to assign a waking memory to a specific thing I see in the dream....but I think more than one item can be used to increase the frequency of becoming lucid. You use the items to remind you of a waking memory like eg..reality check or your plan in the dream( if you hate checks and want to get down to business)..takes time to 'burn' in like a few weeks to months. It's taking advantage of pattern recognition of specific things you encounter in the dream and train the mind to associate the intended waking memory with it.

The other method is to take suppliments that can boost memory like vitamin B complex pills during WBTB. So you get a vivid dream with access to waking memory.

IMJ

I, for one, have tried the Vit. B pills. But not with a WBTB. I may have to try that method.

B6 never did anything for me :/

Sometimes I work on my Rubik's Cube before bed. I'm not great at LD's, but it may help.
Cheers!

This may help and ensure you set out where and what you want to do using MILD.
You can repeat about seeing illogical things etc too.

Just make sure you repeat what you want to do, and it is the very last thing you think of before sleep.
Even if thoughts are flowing in, always be repeating it in your head overpowering other thoughts.
Another very important thing I found out is you need an objective.
If I said "go out and stand on the road", you would go "why?" or "get lost".
But if I said "go out on the road because your baby brother has just crawled over the kerb" you would not hesitate. (example only).
The point is the purpose.
So instead of repeating like "I will go lucid", try to repeat (for example), "I will RC and go lucid at the beginning of my dreams, and will try to jump and hover".
This does 2 things:
Firstly, it is specific and secondly that bit longer to remember and keeps your attention on the MILD longer than a short phrase.

Another important thing is to visualise yourself doing these things as you repeat it. Even picture a place where you will start your dream and do what it is you want to achieve.

Hope this helps.

Yes, this is the purpose of the reality check

been doing RCs for months, done ONE so far in a dream and it failed me :/. (where I wasn't lucid)

How do you do your reality checks?

Anytime I take notice of something that occurs often in my dream or 'odd' happens.

I'm starting to try and wake up every hour and half or so, trying to improve my recall more (i can get up to 5 regularly) but also increase vividness. But with college its hard to keep it consecutive. Twice I had very vivid dreams(nonLD) to the point where it felt like days, but was only asleep for a little more than an hour.

But which method do you use to RC, shotbirds? Reread text, look at clock, hold nose etc?

Oh, i pinch my nose closed to see if I can still breathe.

I used to try the finger through hand trick but that failed me also. RCs are only used (in my case) to confirm that I'm dreaming, not to find out.

Originally Posted by imj

Most people think it's logic but it's waking memory that is missing.

A lot of people think waking memory is missing but they're wrong. I am able to access my waking memory frequently in dreams.

I can also with some things, I'll reference something someone said, etc.

Originally Posted by shotbirds

B6 never did anything for me :/

B6 is no good for WBTB. It works differently.
You take it before bed to get REM Rebound later.

B5 and choline, or B12 and B9 are what you want.

Originally Posted by DreamChaser

This may help and ensure you set out where and what you want to do using MILD.
You can repeat about seeing illogical things etc too.

Just make sure you repeat what you want to do, and it is the very last thing you think of before sleep.
Even if thoughts are flowing in, always be repeating it in your head overpowering other thoughts.
Another very important thing I found out is you need an objective.
If I said "go out and stand on the road", you would go "why?" or "get lost".
But if I said "go out on the road because your baby brother has just crawled over the kerb" you would not hesitate. (example only).
The point is the purpose.
So instead of repeating like "I will go lucid", try to repeat (for example), "I will RC and go lucid at the beginning of my dreams, and will try to jump and hover".
This does 2 things:
Firstly, it is specific and secondly that bit longer to remember and keeps your attention on the MILD longer than a short phrase.

Another important thing is to visualise yourself doing these things as you repeat it. Even picture a place where you will start your dream and do what it is you want to achieve.

Hope this helps.

This is really well put, thank you!

Well shotbirds, I've gotten lucid the last two nights (last night I got lucid in three different dreams!) and each time was through logical, deductive reasoning. Read these excerpts from my dream journal:

I had completely rational thinking for a change. What a contrast. From standing watching tables fall from the sky a few nights ago thinking "gosh this is dangerous I'd better take cover" to standing in a completely normal environment and having completely rational thoughts with complete access to my waking memory! Yay! About time!

and...

I then walk outside and over to my car where lo and behold I see that I have parked it in such a manner that the driver’s door is inaccessible. It is parked with the drivers side only few inches away from a large rubbish skip. I think “Wtf? How can my car be parked like this? How did I get out? I would have had to climb over the passenger seat. Why would I park like that? And why don’t I remember climbing over the passenger seat and getting out of the passenger door?” As I’m thinking all this I’m walking round to the passenger side and there’s a trolley parked up against the door. I do a reality check but I’m fully expecting it to pass because everything is so real. I pinch my nose and I can breathe!

I attribute the difference to activating my logical brain during my WBTB by doing logic puzzles for 10 minutes. I may be wrong, but that's my current theory. I also do a huge number of RCs during the day (between 20-40)

HTH

mm, I'll give it a try next time I am able to WBTB, thanks.

Long ago I asked the same question. From what I discovered, that's just the way the brain works while dreaming. According to researchers the pre-frontal cortex is only minimally activated during a dream meaning that the brain functions with weakened volition and reduced logic during REM sleep. That's where reality checks come in. Question reality when you're awake and chances are you'll do it in a dream.