Thread: Stop Drop and Roll. Why Lucidology and Nicholas Newport are creating misinformation.

"I agree 100% and think that this should be stickied in the newbie zone."



THANK YOU SO MUCH. and YES STICKY it. I hate how a real phenomenon such as lucid dreaming is being overcome by all the new age filth like dream signs/meanings/guides or meeting up in a dream with somone else... I find it difficult to sift through all the BS on here sometimes. But otherwise, there are some damn good guides here if you bother to search and a great forum community for the most part.

Originally Posted by Suby

"I agree 100% and think that this should be stickied in the newbie zone."



THANK YOU SO MUCH. and YES STICKY it. I hate how a real phenomenon such as lucid dreaming is being overcome by all the new age filth like dream signs/meanings/guides or meeting up in a dream with somone else... I find it difficult to sift through all the BS on here sometimes. But otherwise, there are some damn good guides here if you bother to search and a great forum community for the most part.

My thinking exactly. Lucidology is a thinly veiled sales scam, promoting misinformation and bad-science (as in totally made up nonsense pretending to be science).

It's a shame lucid dreaming is so often tarnished with the brush of nonsense.
It's worrying and sad that people newly interested in the subject will be mislead, fed bad information or simply lied to in order for others to make money or boost the ego of the snake-oil-salesman.

It's nice to know though, that so many lucid dreamers, like yourself suby, share the same passion and enthusiasm for lucid dreaming, and want to help promote it as a genuine, intelligent subject.

I've no problem with people speculating on theories or exploring dreams as a means to self understanding and exploration. As long as it is made clear that it is speculation or personal experimentation. It's when people muddy the water with claims of "facts" about lucidity that are false or misleading to promote their own agendas.

What's more worrying is how many people seem to have been sucked in by these style of infomercial videos. I'd always assumed most lucid dreamers were a little more discerning and thoughtful than the average Joe.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

My thinking exactly. Lucidology is a thinly veiled sales scam, promoting misinformation and bad-science (as in totally made up nonsense pretending to be science).

It's a shame lucid dreaming is so often tarnished with the brush of nonsense.
It's worrying and sad that people newly interested in the subject will be mislead, fed bad information or simply lied to in order for others to make money or boost the ego of the snake-oil-salesman.

It's nice to know though, that so many lucid dreamers, like yourself suby, share the same passion and enthusiasm for lucid dreaming, and want to help promote it as a genuine, intelligent subject.

I've no problem with people speculating on theories or exploring dreams as a means to self understanding and exploration. As long as it is made clear that it is speculation or personal experimentation. It's when people muddy the water with claims of "facts" about lucidity that are false or misleading to promote their own agendas.

What's more worrying is how many people seem to have been sucked in by these style of infomercial videos. I'd always assumed most lucid dreamers were a little more discerning and thoughtful than the average Joe.

Well... sadly, people like easy fast fantasy rather than the harder reality. Even though reality can be weird and wonderful if you look carefully enough and take the time to try and understand it.

Also sadly, I am not a lucid dreamer. I wish I was, but I lack the motivation for that or much else. Maybe sometime in the future I'll try again. I've only had a couple lucid dreams in my life.

On the body testing mind subject (which I think we all agree means the mind testing the mind via the body) during a number of Wilds
I have experienced the incredible itching reported by a number of others.
After ignoring the itching, I soon ended up in a lucid.
This may not be co-incidental.

Its not that these videos dont have truth in them. They do have truth in them. He understands the general idea of lucid dreaming, maybe more than just the general idea, but he is simply trying to sell you his product. They have truth but he beefs it up and makes it sound good. I personally think it sounds like shit and makes me want to find where he lives and set his house on fire (not really ). Its like if somebody, lets say a true teacher of some sort, said "Hey everyone look i found out how to conjure twinkies from thin air, i will teach anyone who wants to know because this should not be a secret kept from anyone as it is just too great." and then a dirty little slimeball of a man comes along and sais "Hey everyone, I know all about conjuring twinkies, follow my step by step program and you will know how to do this incredible technique in no time!" and then he throws in a little fine, and gains more popularity because he knows how to advertise, and soon enough a whole bunch of people are oblivious to the teacher but pay this scum bag their hard earned money for something that works, but all those unfortunate people are buying only part of the bigger technique, so the guy can make more profit, while the people learning under the teacher get it for free and are probably a lot more informed and better at it. Bottom line...dont buy this guy's b.s. its not fair to yourself, or any one else.

On the subject of not moving...
The exact same thing happens to a lot of meditators, they too can "get past the pain barrier" so to speak, but this does not result in them having sleep paralysis, nor does it mean they fall asleep. Instead they remain in a relaxed medatative state, with an awake mind, and awake body.
It seems to me to be pretty obvious, that if one turns one attention inwards, and cuts of most sensory input, either via meditation or lucid dream WILD practices... the mind will latch onto any small urges, and magnify them into an almost compulsive desire to give them your full attention.
I don't think this is any kind of testing system, I imagine it's akin to sitting in a completely bare room, with nothing but a red rose in the corner... of course your attention is going to be drawn again and again to the one piece of stimuli, the rose, or in the case of meditation and WILDs bodily sensations and itches.

This of course will be even more hightened if part of your practice or what you've been taught tells you to "ignore" them... because it suddenly becomes part of what you expect, and something you want to avoid... which ironically primes your awareness to notice it.

Of course if you ignore something long enough, it will pass, that's just life.
Does that mean you've "passed a test"?
I don't think so.
What you have done, is moved into a state of deeper relaxation, where your attention can settle down. Personally, I think the same thing can be achived by simply not giving any importance to the body, and just relaxing in the normal way you'd fall asleep (as in just getting comfy).

But to me, the fact that meditators get the very same experience, yet do not fall into deep sleep or sleep paralysis even though they too ignore it... is kind of enough evidence to prove that it's not some kind of special testing system, and instead just a natural example of magnified awareness.

On the subject of Lucidology.
I fully agree with Mitch.
I'd go one step further and say:
Not only is lucidology sneaky in the fact that it contains small elements of truth... but it also then goes on to seemingly build upon that truth with nonsense... but people believe the nonsense, because it had a seed of truth in it initially.

I've no problem with people making money from a subject, I have huge respect for Laberge and other dream researchers.
The difference between them and Newport, is that they have some kind of integrity. They stick with the facts, make it clear when they are speculating, and educate in a sensible, intelligent fashion.
Newport on the other hand, pretty much behaves like he is the final word, "knows it all", and then spews out a load of meaningless pseudo-science and made up terminology... all of which is basically nonsense.
In an attempt to confuse and bamboozle the naive and gullable into parting with their money.

Sure he may have a few bits of knowledge, but no more than any member of DreamViews. In fact, I'd say he knows less... because he is so caught up in his lucid-dream-messiah complex, that I expect he has even started to believe his own nonsense.

I just feel sorry for the newcomers to the subject, we were all naive to lucid dreaming once upon a time. And it's very easy to be sucked in by confident sales men, selling sparkly "perfect" systems. But as the old saying goes... If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is.

Newport needs to go back to school and study some basic psychology and biology rather than just confidently pretending he understands.

Newport wants your money. Dont buy anything from him, he is a salesman.

EDIT:
Cleaned up..

Ghost, why would spaceexplorer respond to some random and fairly crazed off-topic trolling.

So looks like you've won 10 Euros mate.
Maybe you should by yourself some nice relaxing herbal tea.

I was half tempted to ask you a half dozen random questions.
But your efforts here are actually beyond parody.