Ketamine

[What Is Real?]

"Ketamine's other measurable effects on the body include rapid-eye movements, salivation, and the production of brainwave activity mimicking that of a dream state. So. if you look at the facts, you'll see what we have here is a safe, highly effective, and extremely repeatable means of inducing a lucid dream state at will. When administered in the correct dose, Ketamine is a lucid dream enabler (LDE). It gives you all the trappings of being asleep and in full dream mode, but all the while you remain awake and fully conscious. " This came from there: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/r...project_1.shtml

[Anahata]

I think what you are referring to is what we call K.... some people call it super k (edit - it is sorry, just clicked on the link) Either or.. it is an animal tranquilizer, and I wouldn't recommend taking it. It does grant you quite an experience of tripping out and traveling around dimensions... but to people watching you while your on it you'll appear as a complete retard, and to some people this experience is not pleasant at all (nicknamed khell cause it is so fucked up). I tried it once, and went through a series of crazy visuals and OBE ...I felt really gross though, like sick from it, and went outside to sit. I was sitting with my head down on my knees and could see through my eyelids, through my knees and body, through the steps, and to the grass below. While this was pretty incredible to experience, overall the complete feeling of nasty ass I am gonna die, was not worth the trip involved....and I wouldn't compare the trip to a lucid dream anyday Also, I saw many people become very addicted to it..... and it turned them into zombies with trails of white snot running down their faces.... really it's gross, just try to lucid dream without the use of something so harsh......

[Pandragon]

Ketamine is not a casual party drug, and to me, the idea of people without proper understanding of the chemical taking it in hopes of LD'ing is both sad and disturbing. Eating a couple bananas before bed or taking a normal dose of Vitamin B-6 is one thing, snorting HORSE TRANQUILIZER is another. Folks, please just practice some of the many excellent techniques taught here and leave the chemicals alone. Don't rely on pills to give you experiences that your brain is already fully capable of providing. The street drug Ecstasy has been refered to as "Tantra in a Pill," because it's supposed to provide the experience that years of Tantra training would, just by popping a little pill. I can tell you from personal experience, learning Tantra is better. I've tried Ketamine. It's not a casual party drug. And it certainly doesn't come close to true Lucid Dreaming. I'm not saying "drugs are bad," Mr. Mackey-style here. I'm just saying there's no point in learning something you can already naturally do everyday, from a pill. Especially when doing it naturally is guaranteed to be safe, more fun and more effective. So please, just have a little faith and a little patience and give your brain a chance. [/END RANT]

[Ben]

Back in the day I used to use Special-K recreationally and it never caused hullucination..xept when you o.d. on it. It does although make you feel like your dreaming in a sense but with no control, very un lucid. Last i remember, i was at a restaurant "Macaroni Grill" tripping on the stuff and it makes you feel like an alien woh cant talk or walk, a total mess. But K is fun when you got a lot of time on your hands and crave a good 'trip & a half". But if Lucidity is what your looking for Ketamine is the total wrong direction, Look into acid and shrooms instead. Those are pretty close to lucid dreaming of any drug ever was...maybe too real. haha i had frightened most everyone in the macaroni grill that day. Cheers to real dreams!

[InTheMoment]

Being in a "K-hole" is nothing like lucid dreaming. I learned my lesson after my second session expirementing with K...and I wouldn't have tried it a second time if I hadn't mixed acid with it the first time. One of my K-kid friends told me that the Trip ruined the experience and I should do it again without the acid...bad mistake...the experience was even worse. At least on acid & K I was able to clumsly stagger around the party and make a spectacle of myself (therefor providing some entertainment)

[Merck]

I have read about another chemical which acts similar in nature to Ketamine. That chemical is dextromethorphan hydrobromide, more commonly known as the active ingredient that inhibits the cough reflex in over then counter cough medication. Both chemicals differ structurally, and I'm not completely sure of the pharmacology of Ketamine, but both are known for their dissociative properties (hence the use of Ketamine as animal tranquilizer). I have read about both, when used in a certain way, bringing the body and mind into a state which makes it easier to have a lucid dream. Users must be careful though since every person's body chemistry is different, therefore different people may react differently. I am not attempting to persuade or dissuade people from making use of this chemical. However, should anyone who reads in this thread actually decide to try it out (hopefully someone who has experience with altered mindstates associated with dissociative anesthetics), please make sure that you read up about the particular chemical extensively from a credible source. Also one must take into account the laws regarding use and posession of certain chemical compounds and the dangers as well as positive and negative effects associated with its use. No one can make a decision for you to use a mind altering drug. That decision is for the user to make, so make sure you educate yourself enough to make that decision and accept responsibility for what might or might not happen.

[djaio]

if you want a safe dream-like drug, get some 'shrooms. though i doubt you'll WANT to go to sleep once you're in the trip...

[Yume]

Drugs = Pills = Pills effects = Bad for Yume

[EmeraldBlyze]

Originally posted by Yume Drugs = Pills = Pills effects = Bad for Yume Seconded

[voidofform]

i tried DXM (aka cough syrup), it was rather intense, reminded me of the prozac coming on stage - definitely a serotonin thing - and being drunk at the same time. when the main trip had nearly subsided, and i wasn't so fscked up, i found i could visualise like never ever before. i could hold a picture of anything in my imagination and rotate it and look at the details. i had a sort of wierd synethesia where i could picture a jungle, and the plants would change to represent the thoughts i was having, kind of like that link that someone posted in the lounge a while back (organic websites or whatever it was). very funky. next morning it was gone, and i was back to vaguely normal, albielt highly anxious. i didn't recall any dreams from that night. i don't know what any of this has to do with dreams, but it certainly helped my imagination, so maybe there's something in it. the lunatic general's warning: long term DXM use causes brain damage. don't bother trying to make it part of your LD plan.

[Merck]

Originally posted by voidofform the lunatic general's warning: long term DXM use causes brain damage. don't bother trying to make it part of your LD plan. Brain damage aka Olney's Lesions. Yea this stuff can be dangerous if abused chronically just like any other drug.

[TheUnknown]

DXM is very dangerous to the mind.. while it produces very similiar effects like OBE, it stimulates the mind to such a point that after 2 or 3 trips, you start to get significant brain damage. Not to mention, in almost all cases of taking DXM, save a few people.. the experiance is always VERY intense.. i remember a girl I knew who took alot, I had to keep telling her she was alive, and that she did not die.. later on she said, she could see me talking to her.. but not from her body.. DXM has these effects, and most of the time makes you think you're dead. I wouldn't recommend it ever.. because of how nasty it is. But if you would rather balance Ketamine and DXM.. then DXM is more effective.. at just as great of a cost. Although I'm not for doing it.. if you do decide you want to fry some brain cells and have a messed up experiance.. read the bottle of cough medicine... because alot of times there are other ingrediants that can kill you if you OD on them with the DXM.

[Yume]

You should rely on your own skills instead of going on drugs. You should find your key to lucidity within yourself. You are your own guide. Drugs may seem like a good idea, but in the end only you can make yourself progress.

[Bastard_x5]

weed is as far as i go lol..those little green boggers are soo much fun and safe..well for a while atleast..apperantly it causes schitzophernia after long term abuse

[TheUnknown]

Well, i'm not gonna say too much more on the subject, but although weed is much safer then this other shit, it definetly won't help you LD. Its been shown to inhibit REM sleep, but I guess theres always a price to pay with every drug. I think you shouldn't rely on drugs.. theres not a need when you have LDs.. you can do weird enough stuff in them...

[Yume]

Originally posted by TheUnknown Well, i'm not gonna say too much more on the subject, but although weed is much safer then this other shit, it definetly won't help you LD. *Its been shown to inhibit REM sleep, but I guess theres always a price to pay with every drug. * I think you shouldn't rely on drugs.. theres not a need when you have LDs.. you can do weird enough stuff in them... And how is weed safer? O_o

[voidofform]

if one goes and researches depersonalization (what TheUnknown's tripping friend experienced ), you'll see that weed was the trigger for a large fraction of the people stuck in that state 24/7 semi-permanently.... after reading what i have, i'd shoot up heroin a 1000 times before i touched weed again, for fear of getting depersonalization. nor will i touch meth, cocaine, extasy, or LSD for the same reason. LDS however is a different matter

[Pandragon]

WTF? Hey look, I'm not suggesting people do drugs. But I've been around the block, and read my share of information, and I've never heard of marijuana causing permanent "depersonalization." I'm not saying it doesn't happen, because maybe it does. But I will definitely say that if that's true it's probably about as common as getting struck by lightning. How many millions of people smoke pot every day for years at a time? I've never heard anyone talk about such an experience from getting stoned or read about it as a side-effect, much less know of anyone who suffered such a condition on a permanent basis. I think there's no question that on a physical level, one is generally healthier without drugs, and I'm a big believer in finding natural ways to get high (and no, I don't mean herbs and mushrooms, I mean meditation, brainwave entrainment, etc). But it's just stupid to keep perpetuating these nightmare scenarios like every time a person picks up a joint, they're playing Russian Roulet. The fact is, marijuana is arguably one of the safest psychoactive substances on the planet, depending on how it's used. So avoid it because it's illegal, or expensive, or can become a bad habit, or because you want to be clear headed, with a strong short-term memory, or because you want to have lucid dreams. But avoiding pot because of some obscure horror story, probably invented by the pharmaceutical industry is silly. By that rationale, you shouldn't take aspirin either, because it kills like .01% of anyone who takes it each year, but that's considered acceptable to the FDA, so pot should be too by those terms.

[TheUnknown]

I don't smoke weed.. but then again, i've never seen someone have a heart attack from smoking it. Although it can throw the mind's balance off a bit, don't you think Ketamine is just a LITTLE rougher on the receptors? As for depersonalization, it happens.. for weed too. Although, i think it can happen with heroin also... I was on percocet for awile (which is not severe.. but is a pretty heavy painkiller) because of a medical condition... I was on it almost 24/7 for just about a month. The withdrawl was horrible.. i did suffer from paranoia and a little "depersonalization". If you read up on your drugs, you will see that percocet (oxycodone) is in the opiate class of painkillers, right there with morphine and heroin. So the withdrawls are very much the same. Again, it further backs up the point.. its not good to get reliant on anything, because every drug has its downsides..

[Bastard_x5]

Originally posted by TheUnknown I don't smoke weed.. but then again, i've never seen someone have a heart attack from smoking it. Although it can throw the mind's balance off a bit, don't you think Ketamine is just a LITTLE rougher on the receptors? As for depersonalization, it happens.. for weed too. Although, i think it can happen with heroin also... I was on percocet for awile (which is not severe.. but is a pretty heavy painkiller) because of a medical condition... I was on it almost 24/7 for just about a month. The withdrawl was horrible.. i did suffer from paranoia and a little \"depersonalization\". If you read up on your drugs, you will see that percocet (oxycodone) is in the opiate class of painkillers, right there with morphine and heroin. So the withdrawls are very much the same. Again, it further backs up the point.. its not good to get reliant on anything, because every drug has its downsides.. a guy i know from highschool died from a heartattack coz he did bong ''weed on the sucking thing--looks like sheesha'' apperantly he had a weak heart something he inherited from his grandparents and wasnt able to play sports or run alot..it killed him when he smoked weed coz his heart rate just went beating beyond normal and he couldnt stand it

[Yume]

The weed may take you to a higher state, but it takes to to a lower soon after and can cause problems when trying to come back to normal. Drugs try to hinder you from reaching your normal state by taking you either higher or lower.

[voidofform]

Originally posted by TheUnknown If you read up on your drugs, you will see that percocet (oxycodone) is in the opiate class of painkillers, right there with morphine and heroin. So the withdrawls are very much the same. Again, it further backs up the point.. its not good to get reliant on anything, because every drug has its downsides.. i know all about opiate painkillers. i spent a total of 16 hours of 2004 under general aneasthetic, and i've had a broad range, including morphine(mmmmmm), demerol, percocet, tramadol/ultram, vicoden, and codiene (in order of loveliness/effectiveness). for me, coming off these was mostly just feeling extremely depressed and agigitated. oh and the lovely sweats and hot flashes. it was always rather horrible, and tends to spoil opiates as a recreational drug for me. antihistamine sleeping/allergy pills are my only vice these days, and only rarely. i did have a bizarre little thing on the tramadol though, i was a bit fevery, and i had lost quite alot of blood, i was sort of drifting in bed half asleep (as you do on this stuff). in my drifting i lost my identity for a few seconds, i couldn't recall who i was or even what sort of person i was. i paniced for a few seconds, and it came flooding back to me. i thought this was way cool, so tried it a few more times for kicks

[Pandragon]

I was prescribed Buprinorphine for nerve pain a few years ago. Taking it was one of the worst mistakes I ever made. It's one of the strongest legal opiate painkillers in the US. I was almost instantly addicted, lost 50 pounds in 2 months from vomiting and lack of appetite. I went from a slim 145 pounds to 95 pounds in 10 weeks and almost ended up in the hospital. Can anyone guess what substance I ended up using to help me eat and keep food down? Here's a hint: It's the only known substance that actually increases appetite while relieving nausea. Hmm, I wonder what it could be...

[pantalimon]

Originally posted by Ben But if Lucidity is what your looking for Ketamine is the total wrong direction, Look into acid and shrooms instead. Those are pretty close to lucid dreaming of any drug ever was...maybe too real. haha i had frightened most everyone in the macaroni grill that day. Cheers to real dreams! Acid and Shrooms are nothing like LDing? Sure you might get odd visuals and I don't know what your lucids are like but my lucids don't last for 7-10hrs, they are me in complete control rather than me off my tits unable to control any of the visuals around me. I'm not saying they are bad as such (although I know many a casualty and a few not here anymore from acid in particular) just nothing like LDing, you never get the totally controlable and imersive experience that you do in LD's.

[LucidApple]

Ketamine also has some real negative side things to it. Its addicting. When you take it and your stomach is not empty u can suffocate in your own puke. Because it makes u throw up then. And it has a real bad effect on your long term memory for some days after u take it. So not to good for ppl at school or university or any other study at all. And its famous when you take to much of it to give you an awsome death fear. It is still used btw to knock out polar bears to label them so they cant move for some time. I wouldnt reccomend it to the broader audience!