A Theory About Thoughts' vividness in Dream Reality vs. Real Reality

[spiralsofgold]

I noticed that having a thought inside a dream is much more vivid than having a thought in real life. In real life, the physical is obviously as vivid and realistic as it gets, and thoughts that you have also do bring images and scenarios to be imagined and sort of partly experienced by and through your mind, but don't feel as vivid as they may in a dream. When you have a thought in a dream, I notice that the images and scenarios that are imagined because of the thought are much more vivid in dream reality than real reality... sometimes just as vivid as the physical reality of the dream, that objects appear/disappear/shape-shift/change and that you jump in the dream to another fragment of the dream. After some thinking and theorizing, I have come to the conclusion that because a dream occurs in the mind and not in real physical reality, and because everything in the dream, including the dreamscape, objects, people, and thoughts, are all created by your mind in close frequencies, it makes it seem like the thoughts/imaginations you have in the dream are more vivid than in real life because you compare them with the physicality of the dream that is also created by your mind... If that makes sense. In real life, the frequency of real physical objects are very different from the frequency of your thoughts. I also theorize that in a vivid lucid dream, by utilizing more of your conscious mind, you are able to convince your mind that the physicality of the dream is or can be just as real as the physicality of real life, and thus make it so. This second theory is not yet concluded on since I have not experienced enough lucid dreams to observe and learn enough to create a theory. What do you think?

[concusion]

Im not 100% sure what you are getting at, but I agree, ideas that are born in a dream have profound effects. For instance, I am in the process of trying to get a book published, but a scene from my book, I dreamt up. Many famous musicians and artists, creatives, have had many of the best creative ideas came from their dreams. When I was playing guitar years ago, I was lucid in a dream and was in some nightclub or whatever and the band was playing some music and the music was partly some of some just random rift i came up with and liked. I never successfully grabbed that music from the dream but the realization that just some brand new music was born in my dream, was like wow.

[spiralsofgold]

Ah yes I've had many similar experiences like you had. Many of the songs that I write were inspired by a song in a dream. Anyway, XD that's not what I meant though. You know how when you think a thought, let's say a worried thought, you imagine it happening? Maybe then it's just me but whenever I get any kind of thought about a situation or person, an image comes into my mind of it. What I was getting at is that when you have thoughts and images come into your head in dreams, the images are much more clear than in real life. I hope that makes it clearer, it's tough to describe things that have to do with the mind

[Nefarious]

I think that it might be because during waking life your brain is occupied with processing external signals input through the physical senses. While you sleep physical senses are partly shut down or at "sleep" state so the brain can process the internal signals like your thoughts more vividly because there is nothing else on the "screen" of your mind. You can make vivid thoughts during wake time too if you partly shut down your physical senses like in meditation. It will be a border state between sleep and awake. Happens to me a lot during long travels when I just take a nap. Dreams are not necessarily 100% internal according to some books there are external signals which do not come from your physical senses, but some "other" senses but most of them are distorted by the illusions that are created in our mind. If we can manage to destroy the illusions that our mind creates and control the border state between sleep and wake we might just learn to use those "other" senses.

[spiralsofgold]

I think that it might be because during waking life your brain is occupied with processing external signals input through the physical senses. While you sleep physical senses are partly shut down or at "sleep" state so the brain can process the internal signals like your thoughts more vividly because there is nothing else on the "screen" of your mind. LOL thank you that's the perfect way of saying it... Never was too good with descibing my thoughts XD Dreams are not necessarily 100% internal according to some books there are external signals which do not come from your physical senses, but some "other" senses but most of them are distorted by the illusions that are created in our mind. If we can manage to destroy the illusions that our mind creates and control the border state between sleep and wake we might just learn to use those "other" senses. That's interesting. Wait, that actually goes into another belief that I have... Are you familiar with Abraham Hicks teachings (Which is completely unrelated to Abraham Lincoln btw)? What they say about dreams is that when you go to sleep, your physical body is dormant while your nonphysical being goes out and has the experiences that are in a dream. And even though it feels like you dreamed the dream through a period of time, it's not true. The nonphysical being does not experience life, space, and time like it does while in a physical body, and what it actually experiences while out of the body isn't so understandable by us because of our current physical perception of time, space, and reality. The "dreams" that we remember when we wake up are actually translated by our subconscious mind in split-seconds as our nonphysical being merges back into our body. So dreams are really translations of what our nonphysical being experiences, in a way that our physical life perspective can understand it in some way. So maybe those external signals are from the nonphysical? Although, having these beliefs from the teachings of Abraham Hicks, I think technically our nonphysical being knows how to control this border state. Our nonphysical being, if you believe in all this stuff like I do, is actually our true being and form. The bodies are only temporary experience that can be re-experienced if wished to. If we were to manage to destroy the illusions that our mind creates through our physical state, we would be able to reach for all the knowledge of the physical and nonphysical realm and know everything about what lives we had in the past, who has ever lied to us about what, the thoughts of everyone in the world, the feelings of everyone in the world, etc... and for me, knowing everything there is to know would make life pointless. But I assume obviously your beliefs are different XD. If you think everything I just said up there was bogus, that's fine. I'm not trying to make anyone believe this, just saying what I think. What do you think those external signals might be? I enjoy listening to other theories just as much as I enjoy making or defining my own

[Nefarious]

Those signals if they really exist are signals of reality just like light or sound and they have their own frequencies that we can't pick with our normal physical senses. We have our physical senses in our physical body they pick up the frequencies from the physical realm. The senses of our other bodies pick the frequencies of other realms. Our mind is the experience center which translates those frequencies into what we experience. Our mind adapted to translate the signals we get as they are so that we can function in this realm. When our mind gets signals from other realms through the senses of our other bodies it translates them into illusions to make it look like the physical realm we used to function in, and thus we see dreams part of them are real signals but most of them are just misinterpreted illusions. If we assume that there is an Astral realm which is the realm of emotions and the Mental realm which is the realm of abstract thoughts. Imagine how our mind would interpret the signal from those realms in our dreams. Signals like love ,hate, fear or some abstract thoughts, we would see them as illusions or association replays in our dreams. But we can't deny that we have some senses for those things and they are not all physical. Think about it a thought or an emotion is like a wave that you can transmit it and you can receive it. You can sense love or hate from someone and you can transmit it to someone. Same thing with thoughts. But we "clever" humans instead of using the specified body to function with those waves invented the language, verbal or body language that helps us transmit and receive those waves in a converted to physical format fashion. Problem is that the conversion loses a lot of quality or info of the original wave. How would you show true love or dire hatred if not with you astral body? And what about psychics those who can sense the bad energies in the room or read your thoughts? They just somehow learned to use their other bodies. The experience in the other realms is very rich we only think that an emotion or a thought is something simple, it could be experienced as rich as the physical realm if we can really experience it and not convert it to physical realm experience. Those 3 lower realms Physical, Astral, Mental we can be very familiar with because we constantly use their signals in a converted fashion. But what about other higher realms? I don't know much about them. If we die our physical body is destroyed what is left? Do emotions and thoughts die? And important thing is that all of the realms are part of the same reality. In order to function in each realm we have a specified body with specified senses. Unfortunately our mind is fixed on the physical realm and most of us don't know how to switch the experience of realms. But we can assume how to do it. Dreams are a big hint; We need to shut down the senses of the "lower" realm and learn to interpret the signal of the specified realm by switching our mind to the specified body. (How I don't know. But there are many books with suggestions.)

[spiralsofgold]

Think about it a thought or an emotion is like a wave that you can transmit it and you can receive it. You can sense love or hate from someone and you can transmit it to someone. Same thing with thoughts. But we "clever" humans instead of using the specified body to function with those waves invented the language, verbal or body language that helps us transmit and receive those waves in a converted to physical format fashion. Problem is that the conversion loses a lot of quality or info of the original wave. How would you show true love or dire hatred if not with you astral body? Wow, I actually heard of that before. Very interesting. It makes you wonder why we created language if we already could use our other senses to communicate anyway! And what about psychics those who can sense the bad energies in the room or read your thoughts? They just somehow learned to use their other bodies. The experience in the other realms is very rich we only think that an emotion or a thought is something simple, it could be experienced as rich as the physical realm if we can really experience it and not convert it to physical realm experience. Those 3 lower realms Physical, Astral, Mental we can be very familiar with because we constantly use their signals in a converted fashion. But what about other higher realms? I don't know much about them. If we die our physical body is destroyed what is left? Do emotions and thoughts die? And important thing is that all of the realms are part of the same reality. In order to function in each realm we have a specified body with specified senses. Unfortunately our mind is fixed on the physical realm and most of us don't know how to switch the experience of realms. But we can assume how to do it. Dreams are a big hint; We need to shut down the senses of the "lower" realm and learn to interpret the signal of the specified realm by switching our mind to the specified body. (How I don't know. But there are many books with suggestions.) That's all very interesting. Perhaps, if what you say is true, once our physical body dies, every lower realm (since there is no longer a physical body to receive from it) goes along with it. However, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred etc. So either the lower realms' energy moves somewhere else, or waits for another physical body to be created for the same being to receive from it again - this could be why some people have memories of their past lives, or connections with their past lives. The highest realm, which is the core of your being (maybe?) would always remain. There is also a book called 'The Celestine Prophecy'. It doesn't specifically talk about the other bodies like you say, but it does talk about how we can evolve into using our higher senses.

[Nefarious]

Just a thought: if every higher body gets bigger and more vast perhaps the top body is everything! Like it is god or universe or something that is actually one of yours and everyone else's bodies, one unity. And every lower body becomes more and more personal until it becomes you as you are. So the higher the realms you experience the closer you get to experience yourself as god. To experience such vastness your consciousness needs to be vast and for that it needs energy which is actually could be plain spiritual wealth or enjoyment. Unfortunately we live miserable lives. That's all very interesting. Perhaps, if what you say is true, once our physical body dies, every lower realm (since there is no longer a physical body to receive from it) goes along with it. However, energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transferred etc. So either the lower realms' energy moves somewhere else, or waits for another physical body to be created for the same being to receive from it again - this could be why some people have memories of their past lives, or connections with their past lives. The highest realm, which is the core of your being (maybe?) would always remain. And yes I suppose the lower bodies die when you die but the higher bodies remain and create new lower bodies. Does that mean the every higher body is the creator of the lower body? In what order does it go then? Do emotions create our physical body? (Maybe has something to do with emotions during sex) Do thoughts create emotions or is it the other way around? So hard to be sure of any of this if can't experience it yet and test those ideas. I think all bodies have interconnections and all bodies operate in a complex system. Just that our consciousness isn't big enough to experience all of the realms. But then again a rock doesn't have big enough consciousness to experience what we humans can, and so do animals they are limited to even less realms. I think a rock might have only physical body but an animal or a plant could have perhaps the astral body too. Instincts after all work on emotions. Wish I could test this. Does this mean that in the astral plain we might see the astral bodies of plants and animals but we won't see the body of a rock there? I need to learn to astral project

[abicus]

Hey I don't wanna hi jack to thread or change the topic but you both seem to know a bit about past lives which is new to me. If there is more you could tell me I would be quite greatfull.

[Tranquil Toad]

And yes I suppose the lower bodies die when you die but the higher bodies remain and create new lower bodies I would imagine that even the higher bodies will go through cycles of destruction and recreation, although they may last for much longer than physical bodies. The only thing eternal would be the highest "body," god, source, the all - though I wouldn't call it a body. Does that mean the every higher body is the creator of the lower body? Not sure if they create the lower ones, but I picture the lower bodies as being inside the higher bodies. Sort of like russian dolls. Your physical body has two bodies within it which make it up. The first would be the body of basic elements. The second is the body of simple lifeforms (cells.) Then you get your third body, made up of the lower two nested within it - your human form. I imagine this continues, with the higher bodies encompassing the lower bodies within them. As you said, each of these bodies has a plane in which it resides/creates. Each plane isn't so much a place as state in which life exists. You can see the lower planes, those of life as elements and life as simple animals, from the vantage point of the human plane. They actually exist on a different frequency range than your reality, but you interpret them symbolically with your physical senses (I suppose the same way you interpret higher planes symbolically when you wake up from a dream.) You could take this process all the way to the top, as you mentioned Just a thought: if every higher body gets bigger and more vast perhaps the top body is everything! So the top would be infinity. The one. Unity. All that is. Everything else is this one life looking inside itself, with all these levels and various bodies being within it. Do emotions create our physical body I'm not sure on this, but I think emotions are actually related to your second body. I know they call these higher planes emotional planes and mental planes, but that doesn't seem right to me. Your chakra system would be a microcosm of all these levels. So base red would be the first elemental plane, orange naval simple animal bodies, yellow solar plexus human bodies. Emotions are highly centered around orange, which many animals would have in activation. Your dog has simple emotions. Oh well here is a thought. If the human body, as well as yellow center, is highly associated with abstract thought - you could say that that the 3rd/yellow/human body interacts with the 2nd/orange/animal body to create emotions. Most emotions are responses to thoughts and beliefs, which would be the home of your 3rd body. Change the belief and you change the emotion. So I suppose all these various bodies are interacting with each other to create experiences. Wow thread derailed, but cool topic.

[spiralsofgold]

Just a thought: if every higher body gets bigger and more vast perhaps the top body is everything! Like it is god or universe or something that is actually one of yours and everyone else's bodies, one unity. And every lower body becomes more and more personal until it becomes you as you are. So the higher the realms you experience the closer you get to experience yourself as god. To experience such vastness your consciousness needs to be vast and for that it needs energy which is actually could be plain spiritual wealth or enjoyment. Unfortunately we live miserable lives. .... Wish I could test this. Does this mean that in the astral plain we might see the astral bodies of plants and animals but we won't see the body of a rock there? I need to learn to astral project Well I think our consciousness's vastness is expanding, and has to be expanding every moment of life. Life causes expansion because we experience things, learns things, and create preferences for how we want to live, etc. Also, maybe the God of all of us experiences everything we create and want in our lives. Life's negative things causes us to want a positive thing opposite of what we don't want, right? So maybe the God of us is experiencing everything we want in life and is pretty much like a perfect world. I think consciousness already is vast enough to have that higher experience, although, people have through time been taught that their life controls what they feel, and that it is normal to react to bad circumstances by feeling bad. This does not have to be true. I for one, have trained myself to feel good no matter what. I accept the bad circumstances and that way, get past them and feel good. One of the key things we need in order to experience higher realms, as you call them, are to release negative energy and feel only or mostly positive energy. We need to accept that life does not, for the most part, control our enjoyment of it, and only we choose to feel good and bad. I hope you get what I'm getting at? In the astral plain, I believe that what we see is just the energy of the universe. Rock is energy, just as plants and animals and we are. Unfortunately, I think our mind still translates that energy so that we, in our physical bodies, can understand it, and that in turn causes perhaps inaccurate illusions, just as dreams do. I think that once one returns to their physical body, things are automatically translated because we can't otherwise understand them in this perspective of physicality. But with astral projection, there is a lot less translating done than in a dream, though there is still some done.

[spiralsofgold]

Hey I don't wanna hi jack to thread or change the topic but you both seem to know a bit about past lives which is new to me. If there is more you could tell me I would be quite greatfull. I sent you a PM

[spiralsofgold]

Okay, I just had my first WILD! And it was seriously just as vivid as in real life. There were some things I noticed about imagination and thoughts in this dream, so I would like to change my theory a little bit: The theory now is that depending on how vivid and conscious you are in the dream, your imagination vividness (will stay the same but) feel like it varies because you compare it to the vividness of the dream reality. Otherwise, your mind works relatively similar to how it works in waking life. You translate the things around you. Waking physical reality is just collections of vibrations and frequencies that your senses process in order for the mind to understand it, just as in dream reality where you translate the vibrations and frequencies around you. The realities are relatively the same, only that in dream reality your brain functions at a higher level, one of the reasons being because you know you can do anything.