Password shared dreaming experiment

There's a lot of disagreement on this forum about shared dreaming and whether it's real, so I want to do an experiment to see if we can prove that shared dreaming actually exists. Why not? I'm a skeptic, make me a believer.

I propose that every night, I write down a password on a piece of paper at 10 PM (2200H EST), before I go to bed. I tell nobody what that password is.

There are a few participants in this experiment who, the next morning, will write what they believe to be the password on this forum.

I'll write on the forum what the password actually was the next day. We can see if we're right or wrong! :shadewink:

We can repeat this procedure very easily daily. New password, new night's sleep.

It would be ideal to also have a group *not* try to obtain "the password", and write down words that they encounter in their dream -- as a control group.

What would be a failed experiment? One in which we're not able to share "the password" with other participants.

What would be a successful experiment? One in which we ARE able to share "the password" with other participants, but also at a rate which is statistically unique compared to the control group. (e.g., let's say we choose a really weak password like "computer". One participant in the control group dreams about computers and one person in the password group happens to think of the word "computer". This is not statistically significant.)

Any other ideas and feedback?

It's a good start, but I have a few suggestions which might improve the whole thing:

This seems to be a test for precognitive dreaming and not shared dreaming. You want us to find a password which you wrote in waking life, not in a dream, which is a whole other deal if you ask me. Now, here are my suggestions:

1.) We all should have a place in the dream realm, where we go to, in order to retrieve the password.

Example: http://www.twip.org/photo/2010/photo...ofia-22140.jpg

That's a beautiful building, the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, Bulgaria. This is just an example, but it should be a building/house that we navigate to, once we become lucid.

Once you (Mindraker) are lucid, you navigate to this location, go inside the building, and tell the dream characters there your password. You could also write the password on the dream walls inside the dream building.

2.) Once we (other lucid dreamers) are lucid, we navigate to this location, go inside the building, and ask the dream characters who are inside the building, to tell us Mindraker's password. Or, we look to see if it's written somewhere.

And that would be it. If shared dreaming exists, by following #1 and #2 we all focus our dream senses, or even our psychic senses, on this location "out there", where the password is located.

And maybe this should be moved to "Beyond Dreaming". I have the impression that the "Research" forum isn't visited that much, at least not as much as Beyond Dreaming.

In Beyond Dreaming it would have a much bigger audience.

Only 59 views so far, which proves that this thread would fit much better under Beyond Dreaming, for obvious reasons.

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Originally Posted by Jakob

It's a good start, but I have a few suggestions which might improve the whole thing:

This seems to be a test for precognitive dreaming and not shared dreaming. You want us to find a password which you wrote in waking life, not in a dream, which is a whole other deal if you ask me. Now, here are my suggestions:

1.) We all should have a place in the dream realm, where we go to, in order to retrieve the password.

Example: http://www.twip.org/photo/2010/photo...ofia-22140.jpg

That's a beautiful building, the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, Bulgaria. This is just an example, but it should be a building/house that we navigate to, once we become lucid.

Once you (Mindraker) are lucid, you navigate to this location, go inside the building, and tell the dream characters there your password. You could also write the password on the dream walls inside the dream building.

2.) Once we (other lucid dreamers) are lucid, we navigate to this location, go inside the building, and ask the dream characters who are inside the building, to tell us Mindraker's password. Or, we look to see if it's written somewhere.

And that would be it. If shared dreaming exists, by following #1 and #2 we all focus our dream senses, or even our psychic senses, on this location "out there", where the password is located.

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Thank you, I appreciate your feedback.

OK, you raise a valid point here. The password which I would have created is something I wrote while awake, not asleep. How do people know that I am actually dreaming about this while I am asleep? That's a legitimate question.

Now, my concerns about telling everyone to go to some prearranged place in the dream world is that this element is a common element, a common experience, for everyone which will influence everyone's dreams. It's kind of "suggesting" to people what their dream should be like... but what we want is really only to observe the results after the dream has taken place. This could skew the results.

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Thank you, I appreciate your feedback.

OK, you raise a valid point here. The password which I would have created is something I wrote while awake, not asleep. How do people know that I am actually dreaming about this while I am asleep? That's a legitimate question.

Now, my concerns about telling everyone to go to some prearranged place in the dream world is that this element is a common element, a common experience, for everyone which will influence everyone's dreams. It's kind of "suggesting" to people what their dream should be like... but what we want is really only to observe the results after the dream has taken place. This could skew the results.

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The point here is the focus. A "guide", a type of source/location where this password is located. Because if shared dreaming works on a "psychic level", which it probably does (can't think of any other way it could work), then our meeting at this location would focus our senses about going to a source in order to retrieve the password.

You are going into this building, in another "world", and you are leaving the password there.
I become lucid, navigate to this location, go inside this building in the same world (hopefully the same), and retrieve it.

The point of it is to concentrate on that somewhere, which has that something (in this case, the password).

Because if we just have a random dream with no connection to Mindraker so-to-speak, and everyone running looking for "a password", I just don't see much success with it to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Jakob

Because if we just have a random dream with no connection to Mindraker so-to-speak, and everyone running looking for "a password", I just don't see much success with it to be honest.

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I think you've genuinely hit on something that should be tested in two separate groups! Would giving people some kind of "location" give people a higher rate of success for finding the password as opposed to not giving people some kind of "location" to go looking for the password?

Good idea, Mindraker; as was yours, Jakob.

Also, Mindraker, for what its worth, if a dreamer finds your location, I don't think finding the password will be a problem, given that finding the location (aka navigating the aether to the singular point of your dreaming mind) is vastly harder than finding the password once there. Indeed, I have a feeling that, once found, there is an excellent chance that the location will literally become the password, given the power of the discovery. So don't worry too much about people finding it.

Can I add one more small suggestion?

Instead of writing the "password" down before bed, why not have it "come to you" during your dreams, perhaps even during your visit the imaginary location you proscribe? That would avoid the precognitive problem, and might allow the added twist of having someone else give you the password during your dream.

... just a thought.

I hope people pay attention to this, Mindraker; good luck!

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Good idea, Mindraker; as was yours, Jakob.

Also, Mindraker, for what its worth, if a dreamer finds your location, I don't think finding the password will be a problem, given that finding the location (aka navigating the aether to the singular point of your dreaming mind) is vastly harder than finding the password once there. Indeed, I have a feeling that, once found, there is an excellent chance that the location will literally become the password, given the power of the discovery. So don't worry too much about people finding it.

Can I add one more small suggestion?

Instead of writing the "password" down before bed, why not have it "come to you" during your dreams, perhaps even during your visit the imaginary location you proscribe? That would avoid the precognitive problem, and might allow the added twist of having someone else give you the password during your dream.

... just a thought.

I hope people pay attention to this, Mindraker; good luck!

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If I understand what you're saying, the whole password creation aspect of it should be done in the dream -- not in the waking world. That makes a certain amount of sense.

I guess I was thinking someone could take the piece of paper from me before I went to bed, and there would be no way I could "change my answer" as to what I thought the password was. If I typed the password as something from my dream, then there's a lot of subjective room to interpret what I actually saw in my dream. It's like me trying to remember my dreams -- sometimes I have good dream recollection, sometimes I don't.

This is all very good, but who can get lucid every single night in order to try getting the password?

I can't get a LD every night. I wish I could. :?

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Originally Posted by Jakob

This is all very good, but who can get lucid every single night in order to try getting the password?

I can't get a LD every night. I wish I could. :?

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True, but even if one didn't have a LD, one could still (incorrectly) guess at the password, which would be fun to watch.

And let's say every 3 weeks, theoretically, you *did* get that clairvoyant LD which told you the correct password -- it would soon become obvious, as we make a table of your guesses...

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

I think you've genuinely hit on something that should be tested in two separate groups! Would giving people some kind of "location" give people a higher rate of success for finding the password as opposed to not giving people some kind of "location" to go looking for the password?

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I just watched something about military remote viewers and the viewers were given coordinates of the target they are suppose to view. I think it's more accurate than just desription, that can be subjective.
But this is your project guys and I didn't mean to intrude. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

True, but even if one didn't have a LD, one could still (incorrectly) guess at the password, which would be fun to watch.

And let's say every 3 weeks, theoretically, you *did* get that clairvoyant LD which told you the correct password -- it would soon become obvious, as we make a table of your guesses...

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Well, I'd suggest the next time you get lucid, go to the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral (picture I posted), enter it, and tell the password to all the dream characters inside. You can also write it on pieces "dream paper" and put on it on the "dream walls" inside the building. Explain to the dream characters what experiment you're doing.

When you get this task accomplished, let me know. Then I'll try to find it in my next LD. I'll go to the same place, talk to the DCs, and look to see if there's something on the wall, expecting the password to be there.

BTW, notice how this thread is... silent? Where are the shared dreamers now? :roll:

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Originally Posted by Jakob

BTW, notice how this thread is... silent? Where are the shared dreamers now? :roll:

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... You should give them at least one good night's sleep so they can find out about it. Shouldn't you?

I know I can't become lucid every night, but I am willing to participate in this. My dream recall is okay, as long as I get a decent amount of sleep. You can check my Dream Journal if you want, though I don't think it will matter to make me a potential candidate.

I am open to the possibility of shared dreaming, but I've been the one who just waits in the shadows, listening to other people's views and suggestions in hopefully validating the possibility of it.

This may not constitute as enough merit for my competence with dream recall and trying to find others (since I know recalling the possible password is the main objective here), but I have had dreams where I have found information about others in their past state and close to their present state, though those numbers are actually few because I didn't like the idea of potentially encroaching aspects of people's psyche unless they give me permission.

As for my goals in dreams, I don't have serious intentions right now, just making sure I keep up with my recall, and possibly extend it more. I'm trying to focus more on the environments, since I'm decent at recalling dream character's moods, my mood, and how I feel at certain moments.

And 1-3 months ago, I had a little episode with the dream theme of infiltration, guards, sporadic killing, and even a few associations with things like the Akashic Records. Those intentions have died down a little bit, but I wouldn't mind being cannon fodder until more people are tempted to try this out.

As for my honesty, if I can't recall any dreams, I will still put "No Dream Recall." And recalling my dreams and keeping a consistent dream journal is one of my main hobbies every since I joined this forum.

I'm pretty active on this forum, even if when I'm realizing it has its waves of people coming in and going out, and I still find time to be on here when I'm back at college again.

If this can be done daily, then this should give me more room to get used to the setting of this experiment. I may not be an experienced lucid dreamer, but I am passionate about these things beyond the practical aspects of dreaming.

Would it be appropriate for me to make a Workbook in this section of the forums showing my progress in this experiment, instead of posting all of it in here?

I could do my best to set how many hours of sleep I had before trying to attempt a WBTB+WILD, and a few details.

As for real life situations, I'm headed for somewhere at the moment tomorrow morning, so I may have to sleep early. But after the small trip is over, I'm sure I can get my feet back to this, and it won't shift my sleeping that much anyway.

Again, I know I'm not the experienced lucid dreamer, but I have had signs of potential of getting information, and I would love to show those dreams, but I figured that they would just be considered fairy tales and "absurd" anecdotes.

I'm sure there might be more people interested in this, just like how Alyzarin set up a Menthol experiment, and it's been getting significant progress since then.

I'll have to read into this process a little bit more, but I did glance over the initial posts. Looking forward to being a vessel in showing some evidence that shared dreaming may be possible.

Also, I'm really open to things like this, but I try not to bite my teeth down into those beliefs.

I think I can use a guide to help me with things like this, but she only appeared a few times though, since I wanted to focus on other things than finding dream guides or spirit guides, etc.

Anyway, enough about that, I hope others can offer more ways to make the experiment more effective. And I'll do my best to offer as much input, and to be honest with the dreams I will experience.

EDIT: Right now, my time zone is CST -5:00 I think? (6:50 PM when I made the edit).

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

If I understand what you're saying, the whole password creation aspect of it should be done in the dream -- not in the waking world. That makes a certain amount of sense.

I guess I was thinking someone could take the piece of paper from me before I went to bed, and there would be no way I could "change my answer" as to what I thought the password was. If I typed the password as something from my dream, then there's a lot of subjective room to interpret what I actually saw in my dream. It's like me trying to remember my dreams -- sometimes I have good dream recollection, sometimes I don't.

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That's a good point, and it validates your original plan. I guess I was being trusting by thinking that the first person you'd want to "prove" this to is yourself, and, since it would be useless to lie to yourself, why would you lie to anyone else? Silly me, right?

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Originally Posted by Jakob

This is all very good, but who can get lucid every single night in order to try getting the password?

I can't get a LD every night. I wish I could. :?

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Is shared-dreaming an action that requires lucidity? Did I miss a meeting?

Sageous is right, lucidity is a good spark for increasing the likelihood that one gets their goals expressed, but non-lucid dreams are just as efficient, especially with recall.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Is shared-dreaming an action that requires lucidity? Did I miss a meeting?

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Lucidity is not required for dream sharing, but for an experiment like this it is absolutely required. You want to take control of your dream so you can navigate to location X, and look for Mindraker's password.

Oh. Okay.

So if someone wakes from a definitely non-lucid dream that took place in the catherdal and she remembers being told a password by, say, an otherworldly monk, that exactly matches Mindraker's chosen word, the results are not valid?

I'm not sure that makes sense. Though I have a feeling it would take fairly high-end lucidity to succeed in getting the password, isn't there a chance that someone might bumble on it unconsciously or, better yet, have it handed to them without ever knowing it's source? There ought to be room for accidents.

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Oh. Okay.

So if someone wakes from a definitely non-lucid dream that took place in the catherdal and she remembers being told a password by, say, an otherworldly monk, that exactly matches Mindraker's chosen word, the results are not valid?

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Of course they will be valid.

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I'm not sure that makes sense. Though I have a feeling it would take fairly high-end lucidity to succeed in getting the password, isn't there a chance that someone might bumble on it unconsciously or, better yet, have it handed to them without ever knowing it's source? There ought to be room for accidents.

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I think it is much harder to get the password in a non-LD. Unless you have the perfect non-LD and the pw just comes to you, instead of you looking for it.

OK, let's try to find the password on the altar of the Cathedral, unless somebody wants someplace a little less religious. It's 9:11 PM here... so I'll do a pilot run in about an hour.

Hope to see you there :D

I look forward to see what you all say is in my brain. :D

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

OK, let's try to find the password on the altar of the Cathedral, unless somebody wants someplace a little less religious.

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I don't have a problem with that.

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It's 9:11 PM here... so I'll do a pilot run in about an hour.

Hope to see you there :D

I look forward to see what you all say is in my brain. :D

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Now, you'd need to get lucid in order to do this. So I wish you a succesful lucid dream tonight.

I'll be taking part in this experiment. I'm going to sleep in about 5 hours. Make sure you put the password up somewhere around the altar so that we can find it there. Although I'm not sure how likely it is you'll get to the cathedral, seeing as your profile says you've had 0 lucid dreams.

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

OK, let's try to find the password on the altar of the Cathedral, unless somebody wants someplace a little less religious. It's 9:11 PM here... so I'll do a pilot run in about an hour.

Hope to see you there :D

I look forward to see what you all say is in my brain. :D

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It would be fun, in my opinion, if the location was related to the Akashic records, and it could help with finding the password in a library, or some association of a library (since the the brain usually does conceptualize the Records based on those archetypes) if others do not want to use a religious infrastructure.

But I guess the Cathedral is just fine, since it is big and has a better chance of sticking in as an archetype. And I see you're an hour ahead of me, I usually sleep around Midnight your time, but I think I might sleep a little earlier.

I hope to sleep for 3-5 hours, do a WBTB, and attempt a WILD (and if not, at least I will have faith that doing a WBTB reinforces basic logic repressed in NREM sleep to finally trigger). I wish other participating in this luck as well. :D

It may take a while, maybe months, but who knows. :D

Moved to Beyond Dreaming at the request of the OP.

Here is a good picture of our location:

http://www.terminartors.com/files/mu...a-Bulgaria.jpg

Sweet! I was actually going to suggest a starting picture, perfectly fine with that, thanks!

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Originally Posted by Linkzelda

Sweet! I was actually going to suggest a starting picture, perfectly fine with that, thanks!

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That door in the center of it is where you enter the building. When you enter, there are beautiful stairs. Here is what it looks like inside:

http://i47.tinypic.com/10q9pjt.jpg

To explain the picture Jakob added, he wanted me to mention that the man in the white suit is apparently sitting behind the altar where we will place our beliefs that the password will be distributed. He goes by the name of Justin Caesar. All of those women are his women, so we shouldn't let the thoughts of lust distract us from the goal. :lol:

I guess this helps with condensing the location for the password.

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Originally Posted by Linkzelda

To explain the picture Jakob added, he wanted me to mention that the man in the white suit is apparently sitting behind the altar where we will place our beliefs that the password will be distributed. He goes by the name of Justin Caesar. All of those women are his women, so we shouldn't let the thoughts of lust distract us from the goal. :lol:

I guess this helps with condensing the location for the password.

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You got it. :)

Awaiting your results! I look forward to actually making some progress here, although I find it strange as soon as we actually want to test this that all the believers mysteriously disappear. It would seem the skeptics of shared dreaming are the only ones who are making headway to prove it!

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Originally Posted by Linkzelda

As for my honesty, if I can't recall any dreams, I will still put "No Dream Recall." And recalling my dreams and keeping a consistent dream journal is one of my main hobbies every since I joined this forum.

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This is just as important as having a positive result, IMHO. If you are, in fact, participating in the experiment, then your results should be logged, whatever the results are.

The first night (the pilot night) 20 JUL 2012 10 PM - 21 JUL 2012 400 AM EST, the password I used was:

Rubik's cube (whether it was the image, the object, or the word of the Rubik's cube on the altar of the cathedral. For me, it was the object itself.)

I have to say, my dream *was* weird last night! :)

Lion: Maybe skeptics aren't so bad after all?

No luck for me. I had a lot of random dreams. I set an alarm to wake me up at 3:45 AM and was getting ready to sleep at around 11:45 AM I think, but it seemed I quickly turned it off and forgot about the WBTB in general.

That was probably 2-4 hours of sleep, excluding the fact that I was moving around the bed a lot. I would suggest posting the password later on in the day, or at least until someone has made a post to keep as logs. I pretty much couldn't do another WBTB because I was already going through Dream Journal entries to get myself into the mood of staying up for a WBTB and to ultimately go to the Cathedral.

But for now, negative on my end, and by the time I got on Dream Views, I already saw this thread and the password. :(

Even if I were to do the WBTB, having the password already set out would make it pointless, unless of course, it was just a test, but I doubt it. I'll just look forward to tonight and try again (5:10 AM right now). I'll have to get ready to pack any other stuff for a road trip I'm taking today. It might take 10 hours in fact, and I'll most likely be taking small naps as well.

But yeah, posting the password at least when you're going to sleep to set a new one in a lucid would be ideal, to prevent others who are addicted to logging on Dream Views during their WBTB.

:)

Also here's the dream journal entry if you're interested,

Kicked in the Chest, Bike Riding, Horse Riding and Torso Healing, Tennis Courts and Indoor Garden - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

JULY 21, 2012 CST -5:00, DJ entry posted 5:05 AM

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Originally Posted by Linkzelda

No luck for me. I had a lot of random dreams. I set an alarm to wake me up at 3:45 AM and was getting ready to sleep at around 11:45 AM I think, but it seemed I quickly turned it off and forgot about the WBTB in general.

That was probably 2-4 hours of sleep, excluding the fact that I was moving around the bed a lot. I would suggest posting the password later on in the day, or at least until someone has made a post to keep as logs. I pretty much couldn't do another WBTB because I was already going through Dream Journal entries to get myself into the mood of staying up for a WBTB and to ultimately go to the Cathedral.

But for now, negative on my end, and by the time I got on Dream Views, I already saw this thread and the password. :(

Even if I were to do the WBTB, having the password already set out would make it pointless, unless of course, it was just a test, but I doubt it. I'll just look forward to tonight and try again (5:10 AM right now). I'll have to get ready to pack any other stuff for a road trip I'm taking today. It might take 10 hours in fact, and I'll most likely be taking small naps as well.

But yeah, posting the password at least when you're going to sleep to set a new one in a lucid would be ideal, to prevent others who are addicted to logging on Dream Views during their WBTB.

:)

Also here's the dream journal entry if you're interested,

Kicked in the Chest, Bike Riding, Horse Riding and Torso Healing, Tennis Courts and Indoor Garden - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

JULY 21, 2012 CST -5:00, DJ entry posted 5:05 AM

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Excellent idea... in the future, I'll post the password from the previous day before I go to sleep, so around 10 PM. So... last night's password wouldn't have been posted for another 15 hours or so.

Also, just to make sure, you only set out the password when you're lucid right? What if you weren't able to induce lucidity, and a participant just happened to find an archetype to lead them to the Cathedral, and all they could find was nothing, or just a random password.

I understand that it's better to have the password set out in a lucid, while your mind is fresh in that state of awareness, but factors such that can prevent you from fulfilling that role:

-You become lucid, but you are focused on stabilizing it so much that you forget your intention.

-You fall for a false awakening, somehow get baptized (:lol:), and forget.

-Someone seduces you in a lucid and you forget. :P

It would seem practical to have password written down and contained where you're residing at the time being, and then sleep with the intention that you will remember to put the password in the Cathedral. And if that cannot be the case, and I don't know if you do this already, but doing a WBTB and then writing the password could add on to increasing the likelihood that it gets put out there.

I'm not challenging your skill in lucid dreaming or anything like that, just merely proposing anything you might not have thought of to make sure that if you couldn't become lucid, at least others methods (WBTB+MILDS, WBTB+V-MILDS, etc.) would be in your favor.

It would really suck if me or someone else had an epic lucid dream, having so much stabilization and control, indulging themselves in the mentality that they can get clues in finding the password in the Cathedral, only to to fine that the person putting the password just had bad luck with attaining lucidity. :P

But if becoming lucid and forming a new password from that state of awareness instead of one that can be written as a preset is required, I guess I'll have to get serious in synching in with your sleeping periods.

I don't mind doing that at all, but just suggestions to make the experiment consistent.

Good luck on your experiment, would like to see how this outcome will be :)

I'm going to join this experiment aswell, except I'm am going to focus on incubating the idea of the cathedral into my dreams, so that's non-lucid. I want to see if being lucid or not will actually make a difference because there is no evidence it should if your mind already has the intention of finding the password. Btw how much hours behind greenwich time are you?

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Originally Posted by Lion

Awaiting your results! I look forward to actually making some progress here, although I find it strange as soon as we actually want to test this that all the believers mysteriously disappear. It would seem the skeptics of shared dreaming are the only ones who are making headway to prove it!

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Lol, to be honest with you, I fully expected it to be that way. :D

It's not only the believers that disappear, but also the shared dreamers who supposedly have shared dreams on a regular basis. :roll:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

This is just as important as having a positive result, IMHO. If you are, in fact, participating in the experiment, then your results should be logged, whatever the results are.

The first night (the pilot night) 20 JUL 2012 10 PM - 21 JUL 2012 400 AM EST, the password I used was:

Rubik's cube (whether it was the image, the object, or the word of the Rubik's cube on the altar of the cathedral. For me, it was the object itself.)

I have to say, my dream *was* weird last night! :)

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My results: I had a series of non-lucid dreams which were completely unrelated to the subject.

But I have to say that I thought the password assignment would work differently. I thought that you (Mindraker) would place this password near the alter, and then not change it at all. People would then try to retrieve it for days, weeks, months.

I'm sure you understand that it is very difficult for you to use a new password every night? So why not make it easier for yourself?

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Originally Posted by Jakob

My results: I had a series of non-lucid dreams which were completely unrelated to the subject.

But I have to say that I thought the password assignment would work differently. I thought that you (Mindraker) would place this password near the alter, and then not change it at all. People would then try to retrieve it for days, weeks, months.

I'm sure you understand that it is very difficult for you to use a new password every night? So why not make it easier for yourself?

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Wow, we've already come across so many things here, and we're not even 24 hours into the experiment.

My initial hypothesis was, if dream sharing were possible, I could sleep with a password in mind (e.g., "Rubik's Cube"), and someone else could sleep at the same time, and supposedly that other person would be able to find the password in his/her dream.

But apparently -- there also seems to be disagreement as to whether we even need to be dreaming at the same time for dream sharing to take place...? I mean, I thought in order for my dream to go to you, our dreams need to be "in synch" at the same time. (That's why I like the idea of using an EEG machine... it monitors brain activity in real time.)

Who knows... I could be wrong... :lol: that's the point of the experiment.

So... If I change the password every night, we can pinpoint any telepathies down to a 24 hour period. Actually, it would be more like a narrow 6-hour window, because it would be the time that I would be asleep.


If I leave the password unchanged... it would kind of be like hacking a lowercase email password... eventually, with enough guesses, you'll get it. But that's just brute force... that doesn't necessarily mean we're telepathic.

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Originally Posted by dutchraptor

I'm going to join this experiment aswell, except I'm am going to focus on incubating the idea of the cathedral into my dreams, so that's non-lucid. I want to see if being lucid or not will actually make a difference because there is no evidence it should if your mind already has the intention of finding the password. Btw how much hours behind greenwich time are you?

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Great! Glad to have you on board.

Right now, we're 5 hours earlier than London, but it can vary by an hour because Daylight Savings Time isn't exactly at the same date as Europe is.

Edit: We're the same time as New York.

Dear mindraker

Thank you for this opportunity. I will play every night.

I will use Dale Graff's instructions for psi-dreaming but I will "intend" to get a psi dream about the password and not a personal precog.

I will record in my dream journal

Here are Dale Graff's instructions that I will use:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by debrajane

Interviewer:

What can people do to train themselves for precognitive dreams?

Dale Graff:

Ok

Actually it's not that difficult.

The first thing, I would say is, "the attitude". You have to accept the possibility that it's possible.

It's not dissimilar to how we train for remote viewing.

You accept the reality of the phenomenon and say, "Yeah it's real", you don't have to be a believer, just accept the possibility.

Then

In terms of dreams the best aproach is

To begin a "dream journal"

and

"intend" each night to remember something.

It doesn't have to be a specific kind of dream. It's just whatever it is your dreaming about.

"Start recording" a dream or two. You don't have to do every one. We dream about 10 or more times a night anyway. You don't remember all that.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by debrajane

Interviewer:

So like, with that plane dream I would woken-up, wrote it down, explained what I saw and just put it in a journal.

Dale Graff:

Yeah, just jot down a few notes. You don’t have to write the whole thing out because you might not be finished with your dream cycle for the night.

Interviewer:

Mm mm.

Dale Graff:
The best thing to do is have a little note pad at your bedside and just jot down a few words. Then when you do wake-up in the morning, looking at those few words will trigger the entire thing. It will bring back the memory of the entire dream.

41:41

And it’s usually quite effective. But in terms of dreams, after you have experienced remembering dreams and recording them in your journal, writing them out, that is like sending a signal to your subconscious mind that you really are serious about this. And it helps reinforce your intention.

Then after a while, after maybe a few days, a few weeks of practice like this, then set aside a specific objective, like:

“I desire to remember a dream, (a psychic dream or a precognitive dream) about something that I will be encountering in the next day or something unique that will catch my attention". Whatever it is.

And hope that the dream, intend for the dream to be the last dream (or one of the last dreams) of the night and that it be as brief as possible.

With these strategies, with these intentionality’s it will help reduce all the static, all the noise that people normally have in a dream. And so the psi-dream or the precognitive dream is very brief, it’s very much to the point, it’s easy to remember, and it’s very clear.

So

With that kind of intentionality, it’s part strategy, you just simply practice at it until you have it down to the point of an art.

Interviewer:

Now when you do this does it invigorate you in your physical state? When you start dreaming and learning how to do this does it make you physically feel better?

(43:10)

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The above is post 14 and 15 of this thread:

http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/dale-g...6/#post1915398

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Excellent idea... in the future, I'll post the password from the previous day before I go to sleep, so around 10 PM. So... last night's password wouldn't have been posted for another 15 hours or so.

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Mindraker:

Why post the password at all? Just have people post their guesses here, and if someone gets it right or very close to right, announce it then and only then.

I think doing it that way you avoid people "suddenly remembering" that they got it right -- not that anyone here would do that on purpose, but it is easy, very tempting, and sometimes psychologically unavoidable to revisit your memories of the dream with the password in hand, find the thing that best resembles it, and then alter it slightly (with very convincing rationale) to resemble the password. Again I'm not saying that will happen with this group -- they seem pretty sincere. But it could, especially if people really want to get it right. But by not issuing the password at all, you'll never have to worry about it, or about those pesky skeptics who'll say "That guy just said he heard the password to look good; how can we believe him?".

Another good reason not to post the password, even a day later, is because you still have it in you. In other words, There is always a chance that someone might pick up on a password you created five dreams ago, because it is still floating around your unconscious; day/LD residue can last quite a while, especially with a project like this that necessarily demands a lot of attention from you.

tl;dr: So I suggest you keep the password permanently secret, unless/until you see a match or something very close to a match get posted. It ought to make the thread fairly interesting, too!

Again, just a thought!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sageous

Mindraker:

Why post the password at all? Just have people post their guesses here, and if someone gets it right or very close to right, announce it then and only then.

I think doing it that way you avoid people "suddenly remembering" that they got it right -- not that anyone here would do that on purpose, but it is easy, very tempting, and sometimes psychologically unavoidable to revisit your memories of the dream with the password in hand, find the thing that best resembles it, and then alter it slightly (with very convincing rationale) to resemble the password. Again I'm not saying that will happen with this group -- they seem pretty sincere. But it could, especially if people really want to get it right. But by not issuing the password at all, you'll never have to worry about it, or about those pesky skeptics who'll say "That guy just said he heard the password to look good; how can we believe him?".

Another good reason not to post the password, even a day later, is because you still have it in you. In other words, There is always a chance that someone might pick up on a password you created five dreams ago, because it is still floating around your unconscious; day/LD residue can last quite a while, especially with a project like this that necessarily demands a lot of attention from you.

tl;dr: So I suggest you keep the password permanently secret, unless/until you see a match or something very close to a match get posted. It ought to make the thread fairly interesting, too!

Again, just a thought!

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I can see if I were to pick "passwords" from objects in my room (like "Rubik's cube"), you would quickly get an idea of the type of person I am, and it would be pretty easy to form a mental image of what the next object would be. (E.g., chair, table, bed... you probably would guess "lamp" or "desk".)

However, if I were to simply take random passwords from the dictionary, then this doesn't really exist...

Good point. I don't know if it has to be kept secret, but... yeah, you are still observant of what the history of passwords are.

I think I'll join up as a playful skeptic. :) And I live in the same time zone so that's a plus.

So just to clarify, my job will be to have a dream where I got to this cathedral and once inside find or ask for the password. Is that all we're doing?

I'll try my best to get some stuff in but starting out again with lucids and been in the wrong timezone isn't boding well for me. =(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dms111

I think I'll join up as a playful skeptic. :) And I live in the same time zone so that's a plus.

So just to clarify, my job will be to have a dream where I got to this cathedral and once inside find or ask for the password. Is that all we're doing?

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For the moment, if you can find the password in the cathedral (on my end, I'm placing it on the cathedral altar). I'm assuming it's OK to let you know where I'm putting it on my end, as long as I'm not telling you what it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lion

I'll try my best to get some stuff in but starting out again with lucids and been in the wrong timezone isn't boding well for me. =(

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It shall be a learning experience, regardless. I do often take a mid-day nap because of my medication side effects. Let's just see what we find out!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

For the moment, if you can find the password in the cathedral (on my end, I'm placing it on the cathedral altar). I'm assuming it's OK to let you know where I'm putting it on my end, as long as I'm not telling you what it is.



It shall be a learning experience, regardless. I do often take a mid-day nap because of my medication side effects. Let's just see what we find out!

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But why keep changing the password every night? I still don't understand. Just place one password on the alter and don't reveal what it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakob

But why keep changing the password every night? I still don't understand. Just place one password on the alter and don't reveal what it is.

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Let's say, for the sake of argument, that someone *did* get the right password. I'd sure want to be able to repeat the experiment. Why did it happen? How did it happen? Was it mere chance? Was it an anomaly? Did I accidentally give away a clue by accident in my dream journal the night before? And so on.

Boy, that would get my interest up. I would be able to repeat the test /the very next night/ leaving everything the same, except for the password.

An experiment has to be able to be repeated...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that someone *did* get the right password. I'd sure want to be able to repeat the experiment. Why did it happen? How did it happen? Was it mere chance? Was it an anomaly? Did I accidentally give away a clue by accident in my dream journal the night before? And so on.

Boy, that would get my interest up. I would be able to repeat the test /the very next night/ leaving everything the same, except for the password.

An experiment has to be able to be repeated...

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Well, that's one point of view, and I respect it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakob

But why keep changing the password every night? I still don't understand. Just place one password on the alter and don't reveal what it is.

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Yeah, wouldn't that be considerably easier and less likely to put stress on you to do an LD every night to place a new password?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lion

Yeah, wouldn't that be considerably easier and less likely to put stress on you to do an LD every night to place a new password?

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But if he wants to do it this way, then I'd agree with Sageous that he shouldn't post the password at all, because it's unnecessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jakob

But if he wants to do it this way, then I'd agree with Sageous that he shouldn't post the password at all, because it's unnecessary.

---

It might be interesting to do another experiment run by someone else in which one doesn't post the password, or in which one posts the list of passwords (or password) at the end. We could compare results and findings.

I'm kind of interested in my choice of words for passwords and how they will affect you. Let's suppose I choose a concept or object as the password, but you've never encountered it in real life. Even if you *do* see the password object in plain view, how would you describe the password?

At the same time, I don't want to choose an object or concept that is too familiar, for that would be an easy password to guess, even without using shared dreaming.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

I'm kind of interested in my choice of words for passwords and how they will affect you. Let's suppose I choose a concept or object as the password, but you've never encountered it in real life. Even if you *do* see the password object in plain view, how would you describe the password?

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I don't think this is a good idea, as it over complicates things. We want to prove whether or not the information can be shared or not, period. Interpreting objects is going a bit too far.

Let's keep it simple. Nice and easy.

You get lucid -> Navigate to the Cathedral -> Enter the Cathedral -> Place the password, written on dream paper, near the altar.

Optionally, you can also tell the DC's in the Cathedral to remember the password.

Quote:

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At the same time, I don't want to choose an object or concept that is too familiar, for that would be an easy password to guess, even without using shared dreaming.

---

Well yeah but, for example Rubik's cube was a bit different in the sense that there are two words: Rubik, and Cube. You can still make a "one word" password without it being easy.

Shrimp,
Plasma,
Aptitude,
Remembrance,

etc.

And yeah, where is hathor28 now to prove shared dreaming?

I think Gills makes a good point, Mindraker; it might be best to keep the password(s) as simple and universally archetypical as you can make them. Keeping that part of the experiment as stupid simple as possible might help with the part you're really trying to test, which is th actual sharing.

For instance, the Rubik's Cube (aside from being two words) was a good choice because a cube is a nice, simple object that can be described any number of ways and still mean "cube." Oh, and I also think that if someone had guessed "colored ice cube" or "rainbow box," or something similar, you could definitely raise an eyebrow, or two. I wouldn't worry about people figuring out your passwords, either, as long as you keep them random.

But for all this advice, I acknowledge, and think every player ought to acknowledge, that this is Mindraker's game, and we must play by his rules whatever they may be, or the experiment will be doomed.

Please do not bring up my name here. I posted here last time to say good luck with the experiment and would like to see how it goes.
Some people do not realize they are feeding the fire.
Shared dreaming to me is a personal subject and i keep it to myself about my experiences about it, it has nothing to do with me proving it.

Wake-up image of a "square" faced baby (alien) newborn. The square face was very oily and behind the baby's square face the head went to a blunt-point, like a pyramid.

Dream faded too quick to catch and only remember the colour "yellow" and round, smooth, uniform, (clear or slightly smokey crystal) protusions on a surface. Maybe the floor. Like the bumps on the metal outer-part of Dalek's in Dr Who.

The more I think about this, the more I realize it's really a bad idea to post the password for everyone to see. Someone could theoretically retrieve the password, and then he comes a bit "late" to the thread, and sees the password is posted. This would make a successful outcome turn worthless.

He wouldn't be able to convince many people (including me), that he actually retrieved it through a dream.

BTW, as I'm writing this post, a very strange thing happened. A word popped into my head out of no where: The word is ALADIN. I also remembered some scenes from the Bud Spencer movie "Aladin", which I saw more than 15 years ago. Why the hell these images came into my head I have no clue.

Funny, and strange.

Now I'm off to bed. I hope I get to the Cathedral, because that's after all where the password is at. :)

How long will this run for?

Where will reports be compiled/listed?

How will these reports be formatted?

How do you propose we deal with the time-zone issue?

What is stopping your from changing the password?

What randomization algorithm will you be using?

What will you be doing at your end in terms of "placing" the password within a dream?

Why bother with a place at all?

Will you be writing reports as well?

Etc.


I'm seeing a ton of little details that invalidate what could otherwise be a useful exercise. If you'd like, I can suggest some simple fixes that would push this towards legitimacy.

It's a good project, but your approach is flawed, and that's an issue that will not only invalidate your results, but skew them in a specific direction.



Also: Pineapple.

Dear Mindraker

I am so o o excited that you are doing this. The quality of my inside-life goes through the roof when I can participate in stuff like this. All day I look forward to bed time.

Going to sleep is a sharp and bubbley experience as I hope, hope, hope to tune into (say) the password in the temple. I notice the stages of sleep setting in "s l o w e l y". That is such a pleasant way to go to sleep.

Then if I wake several times in the night (due to my neuropathic pain) I immediately wonder, "Did I just dream of the password". And the pain takes a back-seat to the exciting new focus of trying to remember the dream that the pain woke me from.

Due to the pain, (probably) my dreams evaporate before I can capture them, (most times).

But, when I got a focuss like "the password in the temple" my life changes.

So please don't get swamped by all the criticism and suggestions given by folk [who will probably never play anyway. Please keep it UP for ME and I will send you lots of "prosperity prayers" and:

May the long time Sun shine upon "U"

All Love surround "U"

And the True Light

Within "U"

Guide your way Home.

I Love "U" Mindraker

Quote:

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Originally Posted by debrajane

So please don't get swamped by all the criticism and suggestions given by folk [who will probably never play anyway.

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Yeah, don't bother improving your process. After all, you definitely want your results to be questioned and brushed aside as the result of poor execution.

Seriously, with a few simple fixes this could have some real validity. Of course, no matter what you do, your results won't prove anything in either direction (unless you perform a proper experiment and get it peer reviewed, but then you have to get certified to perform human testing, have an established author back your work...too much of a hassle, amirite?). But that shouldn't stop you from trying to make things as bullet-proof as possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Yeah, don't bother improving your process. After all, you definitely want your results to be questioned and brushed aside as the result of poor execution.

Seriously, with a few simple fixes this could have some real validity. Of course, no matter what you do, your results won't prove anything in either direction (unless you perform a proper experiment and get it peer reviewed, but then you have to get certified to perform human testing, have an established author back your work...too much of a hassle, amirite?). But that shouldn't stop you from trying to make things as bullet-proof as possible.

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Whatever you do mindraker

Do not go to Youtube looking for that song I just quoted. They are all slow, sickly-sweet and make me want to vomit-vomit-vomit.

I learned my version on Green Island with a bunch of spiritual hippies in 1972. We walked around that tourist Island off Cairns, North Queensland chanting a much more exciting "up-beat" version.

I wish I could send you a voice-mail of me singing it to you. You would feel the blessing snd you would want to drink it in and you would find yourself spontainiously chanting it with your friends in mind.

I got a voice mail app.

:cheeky:



Glad I razzled you Mzzkc !!!

Razzled?

If only.

Just trying to help out the larger community.

My email is:

*please PM this user for her e-mail address*

Send a quick email and I will reply with me chanting that amazing blessing at you.

May the long time Sun shine upon You
All Love surround You
And the True Light within You
Guide your way Home


***Edited by Melanieb

Guys

Something like this was done elswhere. There were about 30 consecutive, weekly, targets by one guy followed by 48 consecutive weekly targets by the next guy. I was sent a link by a person I mutual dreamed with.

They were up to target 30 of the second guys dream remote viewing lab when I got there.

That's where I aquired the taste for this amazing way of dreaming. The amazing thing was that, although accurate hits to the target were rare (to non existant) folks wandered into each other's dreams. (?¿?)

Parrallel dreams.

Also folks would miss the target but bump into actual events from the senders life. (?¿?)

And other phenomenon too.

This sort of stuff is meaningless to the NON-participants. But when YOU, a timid, humble participant, gets a hit or other anomally, KaPow that's what it's about.

Oh, and I did a 4 minute (16 rep) tape-a-talk so send me a quick "hello" and I will attach the tape-a-talk and send it to you. It is like a spell. It blesses whoever you cast the chant at. It is good to cast this spell (blessing) over your enemies. It goes like this:

May the long time sun shine upon you (Mindraker)

All Love surround you (Mindraker)

And the True Light within you (mindraker)

Guide your way Home."

It is a lot more up-beat and powerful than the limp-wristed crap on Youtube.

Here is my email address again. Do a highlight, copy and past it into your address bar:



***please send a private message to this user for her e-mail*



**Edited by Melanieb

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

How long will this run for?

Where will reports be compiled/listed?

How will these reports be formatted?

How do you propose we deal with the time-zone issue?

What is stopping your from changing the password?

What randomization algorithm will you be using?

What will you be doing at your end in terms of "placing" the password within a dream?

Why bother with a place at all?

Will you be writing reports as well?

Etc.


I'm seeing a ton of little details that invalidate what could otherwise be a useful exercise. If you'd like, I can suggest some simple fixes that would push this towards legitimacy.

It's a good project, but your approach is flawed, and that's an issue that will not only invalidate your results, but skew them in a specific direction.



Also: Pineapple.

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These are all legitimate questions.

> How long will this run for?
That hasn't been decided yet.

> Where will reports be compiled/listed?
I was planning on posting the results on the dreamviews forum.

> How will these reports be formatted?
That all depends on what the results are. I mean... if we've got different people with a surprising number of different coincidences over time, we might need a graph... but if nobody has anything similar to my dream, then it can be summarized in one short paragraph.

> How do you propose we deal with the time-zone issue?
Good question. For now, I'm just leaving it as a 24-hour time period, from 10 PM to 10 PM EST. I know, that's pretty rough. But for right now, let's just see what results we can get by doing this.

> What is stopping your from changing the password?
You can't. That's why I wrote the password down on a piece of paper before I go to bed... that way I (the one who is doing the experiment for myself) can't change the password. That is, if I'm an honest person. But yes, you just have to trust me not to change the password. Which sucks on your end.

> What randomization algorithm will you be using?
Another good question. I should use a dictionary or something. The password I used last night and the one before that was just something I pulled out of my head. Which really isn't random. But I figured it was something reasonably common enough for everyone to find.

> What will you be doing at your end in terms of "placing" the password within a dream?
Oh, I thought we had kind of agreed to that. We're going to place it/find it on the altar of the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, Bulgaria. See post #2.

> Why bother with a place at all?

Well, I have no idea what works and what does not work in shared dreaming. This is completely a discovery experiment.

> Will you be writing reports as well?

I'll post my findings of whatever I find, be they positive or negative results. I did have a *lot* of dreams last night, but I had no evidence of them being *shared* dreams with anyone else.

> I'm seeing a ton of little details that invalidate what could otherwise be a useful exercise. If you'd like, I can suggest some simple fixes that would push this towards legitimacy.

What might you suggest would improve the exercise? I appreciate everyone's feedback.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by debrajane

May the long time sun shine upon you (Mindraker)

All Love surround you (Mindraker)

And the True Light within you (mindraker)

Guide your way Home."

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Aw, thanks. I'll take good warm sentiment anywhere I can get it. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

What might you suggest would improve the exercise? I appreciate everyone's feedback.

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Awesome.

As follows...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

That hasn't been decided yet.

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Might I suggest 30 days for each run? Not too long, but at least people will know what they're getting into. What's more, 30 days (a month) a fairly standard timeframe for research involving dreams.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

I was planning on posting the results on the dreamviews forum.

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Where though? Maybe contact the staff about setting up a group Dream Journal? Or, see if you can collaborate with the IOSDP and make use of their forum. You'd probably get more participants from there, as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

That all depends on what the results are. I mean... if we've got different people with a surprising number of different coincidences over time, we might need a graph... but if nobody has anything similar to my dream, then it can be summarized in one short paragraph.

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I meant more along the lines of participant reports. Something like:

Report Type: Experimental Group

Password: xxxxxxx
Times Spent Asleep: 9PM - 6AM
Brief Description of Dream: Blarg, blah blu blor.

And any other fields you think might be useful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Good question. For now, I'm just leaving it as a 24-hour time period, from 10 PM to 10 PM EST. I know, that's pretty rough. But for right now, let's just see what results we can get by doing this.

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Sounds good. Just make sure that's explicit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

You can't. That's why I wrote the password down on a piece of paper before I go to bed... that way I (the one who is doing the experiment for myself) can't change the password. That is, if I'm an honest person. But yes, you just have to trust me not to change the password. Which sucks on your end.

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And this is the crux of the issue. I suggest taking a time-stamped photo of the password.

If you don't know how to do that, try uploading the photo and taking a screenshot of it locally opened next to a time measurement from a reputable site. (like this one: The official US time (NIST & USNO))

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Another good question. I should use a dictionary or something. The password I used last night and the one before that was just something I pulled out of my head. Which really isn't random. But I figured it was something reasonably common enough for everyone to find.

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If you go the dictionary route, check out RANDOM.ORG - True Random Number Service

Get two random numbers. The first should be the page number, and the second the nth word on the page.

Also, decide beforehand what types of words you will not use as passwords and which you will. Restricting yourself to nouns, verbs, etc.
You don't have to reveal the rules you'll be using to set the password, in fact, I recommend you don't. Just have them in place so that if a word like antidisestablishmentarianism pops up you'll be ready.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Oh, I thought we had kind of agreed to that. We're going to place it/find it on the altar of the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, Bulgaria. See post #2

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Right, but what procedure will you use to do this? It has to be consistent. If you can't do it reliably every night, then your results (positive or negative) will suffer for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Well, I have no idea what works and what does not work in shared dreaming. This is completely a discovery experiment.

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This was, in my eyes, the biggest failing of the IOSDP. They worked from the assumption that there existed a "dream world" in which objects could be placed and people could "meet up" at a certain location.

Why not just focus on the telepathy claims for now?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

I'll post my findings of whatever I find, be they positive or negative results. I did have a *lot* of dreams last night, but I had no evidence of them being *shared* dreams with anyone else.

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Yes, but will your reports follow a similar outline to the ones participants are filling out? What additional information will you be including?

"""Oh, and I did a 4 minute (16 rep) tape-a-talk so send me a quick "hello" and I will attach the tape-a-talk and send it to you. It is like a spell. It blesses whoever you cast the chant at. It is good to cast this spell (blessing) over your enemies. It goes like this:

May the long time sun shine upon you (Mindraker)

All Love surround you (Mindraker)

And the True Light within you (mindraker)

Guide your way Home.""""

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mindraker

Aw, thanks. I'll take good warm sentiment anywhere I can get it. :D

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Dear gods, it works.

What is this witchcraft?

Hehehe

It is 12:22 am Monday 23-July here and I am off to bed. Hope I dream of the password in the temple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

debraJane wrote

"Oh, and I did a 4 minute (16 rep) tape-a-talk so send me a quick "hello" and I will attach the tape-a-talk and send it to you. It is like a spell. It blesses whoever you cast the chant at. It is good to cast this spell (blessing) over your enemies. It goes like this:

May the long time sun shine upon you (Mindraker)

All Love surround you (Mindraker)

And the True Light within you (mindraker)

Guide your way Home."

Mzzck wrote:

"Dear gods, it works.

What is this witchcraft?"

---

I was lucid last night, so here is my experience:

It's nighttime. I am in a big parking lot walking on snow. There are big apartment buildings everywhere. Suddenly I realize I'm dreaming, without needing to do a reality check. I think to myself: I wonder what time it is now if I were to wake up. The dream begins to fade. I rub my hands, focus on my surroundings. The dream becomes stable. Then I remember this password experiment. I want to go to the Cathedral. I stand in front of the door of a house, and say to myself, when I go through the door, I'll be at the location of the Cathedral.

I open the door.... but then I get distracted by something, and the dream unfortunately turns into a non-lucid dream.

I clearly remember walking on snow. Was the password perhaps "snow" ? I doubt it. :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mzzkc

Awesome.

As follows...

<snip>
</snip>

---

Oh, yeah I'd love to have everyone post the time they sleep every night, as well as have everyone sleep the same time every night. However, I didn't want to make the experiment a burden on people, either. If I could just get people to post their impressions about any objects they might have seen on a table last night while dreaming... I'd consider that a success. If people want to post more information, go for it.

OK, it seems like people are really wanting the test for each word to go longer than one night. That's fine. I think your suggestion for a month is reasonable.

Yes, I was planning on making the "words" noun-only. It's kind of hard to envision verbs, adjectives...

Good point about the "dream world". We need to make the experiment simpler. So somehow I just need to focus on object X -- and you all will figure out what object X is, without any location reference or even having met me in real life? That sounds tough.

I have an unabridged German-English English-German dictionary here... in the future, I can pick a word for the next month by having a number select any page and word from the 816 pages.

Maybe something like this,

PHP Code:

---

[B]Password:[/B]
[B]Lucid:[/B]
[B]Time spent asleep:[/B]
[B]Significant Dreamsigns;[/B] 


---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gills

I clearly remember walking on snow. Was the password perhaps "snow" ? I doubt it. :D

---

Check out this guy's dream journal. He also had a dream about snow. Awesome drawings, too.

For what it's worth -- and no offense meant to Taskmaster Mzzkc:

I thought that the cathedral image was added more as a focal image, a "larger initial target," as it were, and a way to form an initial schema that better matches Mindraker's, than it was meant as a place in some dreamworld to visit. If it was the former, it's still not a bad idea; after all, the bigger the target, the better, and any aid to navigation is helpful. In other words, I don't think anyone was talking about setting up shop on the astral plane.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

In other words, I don't think anyone was talking about setting up shop on the astral plane.

---

Of course not. At least I wasn't.

... I thought we didn't go there. To the netherworld plane, that is...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

For what it's worth -- and no offense meant to Taskmaster Mzzkc:

I thought that the cathedral image was added more as a focal image, a "larger initial target," as it were, and a way to form an initial schema that better matches Mindraker's, than it was meant as a place in some dreamworld to visit. If it was the former, it's still not a bad idea; after all, the bigger the target, the better, and any aid to navigation is helpful. In other words, I don't think anyone was talking about setting up shop on the astral plane.

---

And I have no issue with that idea.

But I don't have faith that all participants will "get it." It's more likely, given the track record of exercises that use a particular place or meeting point, people will instead focus on getting somewhere instead of figuring out the password.

Not only will these mindsets skew results, so will the personal schema people attach to whatever place is chosen.

A possible solution: Message Passing
Mindraker will symbolically release the password in some way. (message in a bottle, carrier pigeon, owl, catapult, w/e)
Participants will receive it in a symbolic way. (doesn't matter how)

The symbolic procedure Mindraker used to release the message each night should be kept hidden until he posts his report.
In this way, we get the benefit of symbolism, without a biased skew.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindraker

OK, it seems like people are really wanting the test for each word to go longer than one night. That's fine. I think your suggestion for a month is reasonable.

---

Hmm? The month would just be the duration of the entire exercise before you do your analysis and start again with fresh data.

Although, keeping the same password is a good idea.

But you should definitely change up the password more frequently than that.
Maybe change it once every 14 days (half a month)? Just for a good sample size?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mzzkc

But I don't have faith that all participants will "get it." It's more likely, given the track record of exercises that use a particular place or meeting point, people will instead focus on getting somewhere instead of figuring out the password.

Not only will these mindsets skew results, so will the personal schema people attach to whatever place is chosen.

---

Good point. I could see that happening, now that you mention it.

Quote:

---

A possible solution: Message Passing ... Mindraker will symbolically release the password in some way. (message in a bottle, carrier pigeon, owl, catapult, w/e) ... Participants will receive it in a symbolic way. (doesn't matter how)

The symbolic procedure Mindraker used to release the message each night should be kept hidden until he posts his report.
In this way, we get the benefit of symbolism, without a biased skew.

---

That's an excellent solution to the problem you noted, and it also makes the net a bit larger, as Mindraker might notice dreamers spotting his release method even if they missed the method itself...

Please, hold your applause.

There is science to do.

This thread is getting out of hand. Everyone has different ideas they want to force on others, and it's now hard to follow what's actually going on here... if anything at all.

It had good potential though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

... I thought we didn't go there. To the netherworld plane, that is...

---

Huh? And we're not.

OK, let's just wrap up what's going on, or what I think is going on:

• After tonight, I'm going to pick a password from my Collins German-English Dictionary
• This dictionary-selected password will be kept secret for a month
• I'll still post the password I used from last night tonight at 10 PM
• The password I'll select in the future will be selected by means of a random number
• I'll take a timestamp of the random number and the time I took the timestamp
• We'll do this for 30 days, starting tonight at 10 PM EST
• We're not doing a search in a cathedral anymore for the word, we're just looking for the object.
  

Did I miss anything?

This post maybe?

Other than that, I think things are mostly solid. You'll probably want to create a new thread for ideas/comments and another for results. Just to keep things clear and under control.

The password for last night was

Spoiler for password:

Pink Elephant

This was the last night I'll be using a password from my brain, and I'll use something from a dictionary from 7/22/2012 until 8/22/2012.

I'm out, for obvious reasons: http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/passwo...ml#post1919308

I still wish the experiment turns out positive though.

I wasn't able to connect to the internet at all, so my dream journal entry was posted late. Finally reached the destination, and I'm at the same timezone.

I saw the password you put now, and found one dream that ended up with someone being pink.

Then I saw a word come up on the computer in another dream. I wasn't sure of what it was, but it was Elizabeth.

You'll see in the dream journal entry.

Chainsaw Women, Mucus Circles, Krauser and Pink Bunny, Elizabeth - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

What's interesting is the Pink Bunny outfit Krauser turned into, and then Elizabeth showing up on the screen in the next dream.....and even then, I wasn't sure if it was Elizabeth.

Oh well, I'll keep up with the experiment.

I wanted to post this around 5:30 AM, but I had to get ready for the destination...sigh...


Either way, the method I'm using is showing some potential in finding the password. It's basically a V-MILD before I go to sleep, and the hopefully I wake up some time in the night, look at the affirmation again, and hope to do a WBTB+WILD also.

I thought these dreams were random, but I'm pretty sure that the events linked up to trying to guess the password.

It may not appear genuine, because the DJ post was made around 9:00 PM something, but hopefully tomorrow and a few weeks, I can focus more on this without any delay.

My whole day was trying to get an internet connection to post the dj entry and comment on here...man, hate it when traveling messes up my efforts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gills

I'm out, for obvious reasons: http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/passwo...ml#post1919308

I still wish the experiment turns out positive though.

---

Thank you for your participation! I appreciate your help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

I saw the password you put now, and found one dream that ended up with someone being pink.

---

Congratulations!

This raises something interesting:

What happens if the password is more than one word, and you find only one word (like "pink" or "elephant" but not "pink elephant"?) Is that a "hit"? It's worth keeping track...

Alright, I kept up with the V-MILD throughout the day of saying that I will find the password you decided to pick out from the dictionary at random intervals during the day. I even did it during the WBTB as well.

Loli, Gray Font, We had Homework?, Blonde Female in Black - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

It took a while for me to finish the DJ entry, since I was exploring some areas at Florida. I had to resort to typing on my Blackberry Phone to save some notes that I would go back to in order to go into detail of what I experienced.

Some noticeable things in these dreams of mine:

I saw that there was a Scorpion drawing/painting that would not conform to being saturated in any other color I decided to put ink drops on. Hm.........

I met a blonde female who was invincible to all of my non-lethal gunfire, and she was unarmed. Unfortunately, someone woke me up before she had a chance to come close to me and possibly declare something important.

About the same Scorpion part, there were also some Naruto Shippuden Mangas around, and I believed I played around with a few opened pages by erasing some shading from Naruto's face...don't know if you like that anime and/or mangas, or anything of that sort.

I'm not going to make any assumptions on the password you picked, I'll just continue with the sporadic checking of the V-MILD I set out for myself, and hopefully become lucid within the month span of the experiment.

Maybe there are some things that you can see associated with your password, but of course, you'll be keeping it a secret. Maybe these dreams were just usual randomness occurring during NREM sleep, but I set a timer for 5-6 hours of sleep, and did a WBTB, and then slept maybe for 3 more hours.

So I'm sure I got some REM sleep, or maybe some REM rebound, since I did have little sleep the night before.

So 8-9 hours total of sleep for me.

As always, looking forward to tonight's efforts! I think after tomorrow, I might have to make another road trip with someone, but I'll try my best to get those set of dreams that I can recall in the near future.

I seem to be getting back to remembering a lot of details in my dreams. I find that this is necessary, especially when trying to distinguish what may be just random expressions of my subconscious spewing unconscious thoughts, or intentional expressions for clues.

This looks like an interesting thread! Normally i don't join into events like this, but this one seems 'professional' done. Will post my results tomorrow, going to bed in 20-30 minutes. Hopefully, i will have some good results! :D

3days ago Mindraker began athread called "Password shareing dream experiment". He posted a picture of a temple and said he would place a password in the temple for lucid dreamers to find daily.

After 24 hours he posted the first password "rubiks cube".

After 48 hours he posted "pink elephant" (post #35 Linkzelda shared dreams, post #59 debraJane shared dream, post #60 & #73 Gilles shared experience and dream.

Then in post #85 and post #87 it was decided that the next.dream password would be released (like a bird) into the sky) for dreamers to intercept how ever they wish. The third password was released on 22nd of July Mindraker will reveal the password on 22nd of August

I'm thinkimg I might spread the word about this exciting experiment by private emailing folk and inviting them to have a go.

i am doing this tonight. Will report back.

I just remember one dream from last night. I was in a library, and i was searching for books that was about diving, but a person said to me that i should look for psychology books. This is probably a very long shot, but could the password be one of those: Diving, psychology or library?

Thank you all for participating! I should start logging all your guesses in a file... this is going to get big really fast.

What I'm experiencing, at least, is that I'm getting a lot of detail and more dreams, as I'm trying this. I'm not sure if this is *the cause* or not. But I'm certainly enjoying it.

Seems my road trip is going to continue to another place, which means I have to get ready now, so I should just post my results here now.

I didn't get to do a WBTB+WILD, but I was in the process of it. I was using the Flex Freeze and Reverse Blinking. I positioned my pillows so my neck would be tilted, which would prevent the Swallowing Reflex from distracting me when getting into a meditative state. Someone woke me up though, and things were going well before they did.

Anyway, these dreams aren't anything special, but there's one dream that was interesting.

I had to go through security to get scanned like all passengers who got off a train from a station. I made the mistake and went through a section without a guard confirming I could, and he simply told me to go back and wait to be scanned. I complied, and went through with no worries.

Other than that, I don't see anything else that could be associated with finding clues on what the password is. Here's the entry anyway,

Burnt Toast, Sonic and Knuckles, Train Station Security - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I probably had 4-5 hours of sleep in total, and I will continue to use the affirmation from the V-MILD for tonight. I don't know what will happen while I'm waiting for a few hours to get to the next destination, but I will continue to push forward in getting a decent night where I can attempt inducing a lucid dream.

Take care for now. :)

I don't mean to offend you guys here but folks... IOSDP. IOSDP everywhere. http://www.dreamviews.com/f144
plz check out once? please? :yawnorama:

I really like the idea of making a password Mindcracker, it would be better if we have SD and confirm it in a sufficient way.
But... I don't want you to make failure like we did in IOSDP.

First, you are focusing on getting to a place, not meeting a person. This would be 'shared themed dreaming', not 'SHARED dream'.

Well, I'll tell you a story... For half a year IOSDP members tried to meet at Chicen Itza pyramid. All of them.. about 50 members I assume. I think I made it to the pyramid while I was lucid for 5 times succesfully during the half year. I think I made over 50 times attempting to go to the pyramid while lucid, but failed. In the 5 times I never met anyone and failed SDing.
I think only one case was successful SDing at the pyramid - this one member met a woman holding a baby at the top of pyramid... Well. only one successful SD attempt during a half year.

The meeting place itself make people a connection somehow, but it literally does not make you share dream with each other.

So we changed the Chicen Itza pyramid to Giza pyramid. More simple and everyone knows Giza Pyramids at Egypt.
The first night, Katsuno, Aeolar and I had a very big synch (fight with enemies in a closed space, and Katsuno and Aeolar were at the same place I think) We didn't managed to go to the pyramids but we somehow had a synch.
But it doesn't still define a shared dream, we rather had a 'same themed' SD.

So we realized that getting to a meeting place is ACTUALLY HARD if you are not good at achieving lucidity. Like Mzzck said, this was the biggest failure in IOSDP project. So we stopped meeting at place, instead we worked on getting lucid.

Lucidity is not required for SDing. However it allows us to find a specific person thru dream, Nomad said that.

So another half year I attempted finding a specific person while lucid for about 10 times I think, but almost of them I failed.... is it because the person lives far away and we don't sleep at the same time? (the person I tried to find lived in England)
(We've managed to find each other on the same night though, we were at the same place - school.)

What is a 'shared dream', really? Is it just having a 'meshing' dream, dreaming the same factor, a share dream? Is finding a specific person while lucid, and meet each other SHARING information, and then when you wake up you confirm the same exact place/ feature you saw/ conversation you heard a shared dream?

As of now I think the second question is right.
So whatever you're doing now for proving a SDing.... don't make failures every night, eventually becoming frustrated... and then conclude that 'SD is not real'. Of course password idea is still good - I really didn't try to prove SD because I only focused on getting lucid and or finding a specific person in dream.

We're starting a new SD project in IOSDP soon, based on all failures we've experienced we're gonna brainstorm ideas there to have real shared dream. We might include the password idea. So if you're interested, please join :)

Here's a dream from last night.

I am on the 40th floor of a tall building. The room I'm in is a library. The wall on one side of the room is just a big window. Everyone else in the library is Japanese. I look out the window and see some nasty storm clouds moving in, with multiple finger-like clouds pointing down into the city. I start to see dust and debris kicking up a few blocks over so I know a tornado has formed in the city, even though I can't actually see it yet. I yell out, in English, to everyone in the library that there is a tornado, but I worry that they won't understand what I'm saying. I run out into a hallway to find a staircase. I feel I'll never be able to run down all 40 stories before the tornado gets here but I have to try.

This may be the same or from a different dream. Not sure.

I'm outside of my house in the yard. The sky looks very menacing. I have this feeling that a terrible event has taken place, probably weather related. I know the world will never be the same. I'm by myself and not sure of where to go now. I see a Blackhawk helicopter fly by fairly close to the ground. Some one on board is calling out over a speaker, asking if anyone needs help. I start yelling and waving my hands to get their attention. They see me and start to circle around. The helicopter turns too sharp and slams sideways into the ground not far from me. I run over to check it out and it's a very gory scene. Bodies everywhere. I'm looking for survivors but at the same time worried that I'll actually find one because I don't know how I could help.


Bad weather is my biggest dream sign so I'm not sure why I didn't get lucid. Hmm. Anyway, I know these dreams sound bad but they weren't nightmares.

Thank you for the invitation Windhover.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Windhover@

I don't mean to offend you guys here but folks... IOSDP. IOSDP everywhere.

http://www.dreamviews.com/f144

plz check out once? please? :yawnorama:

I really like the idea of making a password Mindcracker, it would be better if we have SD and confirm it in a sufficient way.
But... I don't want you to make failure like we did in IOSDP.

First, you are focusing on getting to a place, not meeting a person. This would be 'shared themed dreaming', not 'SHARED dream'.

Well, I'll tell you a story... For half a year IOSDP members tried to meet at Chicen Itza pyramid. All of them.. about 50 members I assume. I think I made it to the pyramid while I was lucid for 5 times succesfully during the half year.

I think I made over 50 times attempting to go to the pyramid while lucid, but failed. In the 5 times I never met anyone and failed SDing.

I think only one case was successful SDing at the pyramid - this one member met a woman holding a baby at the top of pyramid... Well. only one successful SD attempt during a half year.

The meeting place itself make people a connection somehow, but it literally does not make you share dream with each other.

So we changed the Chicen Itza pyramid to Giza pyramid. More simple and everyone knows Giza Pyramids at Egypt.
The first night, Katsuno, Aeolar and I had a very big synch (fight with enemies in a closed space, and Katsuno and Aeolar were at the same place I think) We didn't managed to go to the pyramids but we somehow had a synch.
But it doesn't still define a shared dream, we rather had a 'same themed' SD.

So we realized that getting to a meeting place is ACTUALLY HARD if you are not good at achieving lucidity. Like Mzzck said, this was the biggest failure in IOSDP project. So we stopped meeting at place, instead we worked on getting lucid.

Lucidity is not required for SDing. However it allows us to find a specific person thru dream, Nomad said that.

So another half year I attempted finding a specific person while lucid for about 10 times I think, but almost of them I failed.... is it because the person lives far away and we don't sleep at the same time? (the person I tried to find lived in England)
(We've managed to find each other on the same night though, we were at the same place - school.)

What is a 'shared dream', really? Is it just having a 'meshing' dream, dreaming the same factor, a share dream? Is finding a specific person while lucid, and meet each other SHARING information, and then when you wake up you confirm the same exact place/ feature you saw/ conversation you heard a shared dream?

As of now I think the second question is right.
So whatever you're doing now for proving a SDing.... don't make failures every night, eventually becoming frustrated... and then conclude that 'SD is not real'. Of course password idea is still good - I really didn't try to prove SD because I only focused on getting lucid and or finding a specific person in dream.

We're starting a new SD project in IOSDP soon, based on all failures we've experienced we're gonna brainstorm ideas there to have real shared dream. We might include the password idea. So if you're interested, please join :)

---

My physics teacher said "with experiments there is no such thing as failure to real scientist's. Only lay people use that worf " faiure" because they don't understand the scientific method like the properly trained scientist.

In "real" science they brain-storm to come come up with a hypothesis . Then set the variables.

A simple hypothesis goes something like this: IF we adjuust this variabe THEN this will happen.

The experiment is run. It cannot fail. The results of the experiment will either SUPPORT the hypothesis or the results of the experiment will not support the hypothesis.

When the hypothesis is not supported the exciting stuff begins as we look for the reasons the results did not support the hypothesis.

Then change the variables and or restate the hypothesis and go again, and again, and again.

The Great Leonardo Ds Vinci (1452-1519) worked secretly on finding the Philosophor's stone. They would have burnt him at the stake if he was found out.

I believe that people returned to abandoned gold mines 30 or so years after they had been worked out. Astonishingly, thin layers of bubbly, pure gold had magicaly, reappeared in these long abandoned mines. (?!!!?)

The Greatest minds of the day (like Leanardo) hypothesised that it was some combination of (x) that they gave the code name the Philosopher's Stone that turned the base metals (in the long abandoned gold mines) into the bubbly gold.

Then in ummm ... just a few years ago an Adelaide geologist worked on the hypothesis that unique bacteria eat single atoms of gold. This makes them poisoness to all other bacteria.

Over decades as the bacteria divides over and over the bubbly gold becomes visible.

The process that "seemingly" created gold from nothing is finally understood.

Dream Sharing etc may take decades even hundreds of years to understand. Even with great (scientific) minds like Leonardo working on it.

By the way I made it to Chicken Itza. I was driven up to the top and chuked off. Later I Googled Chiken Itza and discovered that was the real fate of many.

The Dream Journal entry was made on 12-August-2011 and I titled it "First Attempt"
Here it is:

first attempt - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Let me give this a shot. I've tried running a random number generator before without looking at it, then checking my device in the dream for the number. What happens, though, is that the number keeps changing within the dream to where I can't get a consistent answer.

That was a way for me to test the predictive power of the dream rather than a way to test shared dreaming. If someone does guess the password, how will we know it's not a dream predicting waking world phenomena rather than a shared dream? I'm not suggesting to modify the experiment further, it's just something to think about. And either result would be freaking amazing and be worth studying.

Anyway I'm going to start looking for the password and if I start getting a consistent message I'll post it.

I snoop on a couple other dream sites. I can't name names or I might be kicked off them if they find out.

But

At 7:26 AM (24-July-2012) a regular poster at another dream site dreamt of a caduceus and that was the whole dream. He gave a link to here:

Caduceus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then described how his dream-image differed from the links picture of a caduceus.

I, debraJane believe that all us humans are one being in billions of bodies so this guy may have picked up the dream password released by our Sender Mindraker.

I won't tell him. I will just wait amd see what is revealed on the 22nd of August.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Windhover@

I don't mean to offend you guys here but folks... IOSDP. IOSDP everywhere. http://www.dreamviews.com/f144
plz check out once? please? :yawnorama:

I really like the idea of making a password Mindcracker, it would be better if we have SD and confirm it in a sufficient way.
But... I don't want you to make failure like we did in IOSDP.

First, you are focusing on getting to a place, not meeting a person. This would be 'shared themed dreaming', not 'SHARED dream'.

Well, I'll tell you a story... For half a year IOSDP members tried to meet at Chicen Itza pyramid. All of them.. about 50 members I assume. I think I made it to the pyramid while I was lucid for 5 times succesfully during the half year. I think I made over 50 times attempting to go to the pyramid while lucid, but failed. In the 5 times I never met anyone and failed SDing.
I think only one case was successful SDing at the pyramid - this one member met a woman holding a baby at the top of pyramid... Well. only one successful SD attempt during a half year.

The meeting place itself make people a connection somehow, but it literally does not make you share dream with each other.

So we changed the Chicen Itza pyramid to Giza pyramid. More simple and everyone knows Giza Pyramids at Egypt.
The first night, Katsuno, Aeolar and I had a very big synch (fight with enemies in a closed space, and Katsuno and Aeolar were at the same place I think) We didn't managed to go to the pyramids but we somehow had a synch.
But it doesn't still define a shared dream, we rather had a 'same themed' SD.

So we realized that getting to a meeting place is ACTUALLY HARD if you are not good at achieving lucidity. Like Mzzck said, this was the biggest failure in IOSDP project. So we stopped meeting at place, instead we worked on getting lucid.

Lucidity is not required for SDing. However it allows us to find a specific person thru dream, Nomad said that.

So another half year I attempted finding a specific person while lucid for about 10 times I think, but almost of them I failed.... is it because the person lives far away and we don't sleep at the same time? (the person I tried to find lived in England)
(We've managed to find each other on the same night though, we were at the same place - school.)

What is a 'shared dream', really? Is it just having a 'meshing' dream, dreaming the same factor, a share dream? Is finding a specific person while lucid, and meet each other SHARING information, and then when you wake up you confirm the same exact place/ feature you saw/ conversation you heard a shared dream?

As of now I think the second question is right.
So whatever you're doing now for proving a SDing.... don't make failures every night, eventually becoming frustrated... and then conclude that 'SD is not real'. Of course password idea is still good - I really didn't try to prove SD because I only focused on getting lucid and or finding a specific person in dream.

We're starting a new SD project in IOSDP soon, based on all failures we've experienced we're gonna brainstorm ideas there to have real shared dream. We might include the password idea. So if you're interested, please join :)

---

Thank you for your feedback. We've actually eliminated the "location" aspect, as was suggested on this thread, and are simply trying to see if other people will come across the password in their dream.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debrajane

My physics teacher said "with experiments there is no such thing as failure to real scientist's.

---

And that's kind of how I'm going about it; it doesn't really matter what the results are to me; I'm not trying to prove a point with this experiment -- I just want to discover things, which I already have done. To me, this experiment is already a success.

I had a string of lucids last night and in one I tried to summon your password. What I got was a white picket sign, about three feet tall, stuck in the ground. On it was two images. The faces of a man and a woman, not close but facing each other. The images were obviously drawings, but they were realistic drawings. Under each image there was a different sentence. I tried my hardest to memorize the sayings so I could remember them when I woke up, but I was unable to. All I remember is they were nonsensical.

Last night was a bunch of craziness piled into more madness:

Non-REM Sleep Nonsense - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

No luck with finding clues for the password, but I will point out some things.

-White top circular floor in a random house
-Redheaded lady wearing white jacket, and dark clothing underneath it.
-Purple skinned monster with one huge eye

Eh, not really what I had in mind lol.

Last night i was thinking in a non lucid dream about a password. I just can't remember the word, but it probably wasn't right... If i remember correctly, it was a word that didn't exist.

Dear Windhover

Will you do me a favour?

I get mixed-up and confused (easy) when trying to navigate around this huge Dreamviews site. I followed your link. But can't find the Thread you want me to read. Could you link me to one thread.

If you like, please open a thread, yourself, and we can talk about the NEW IOSDP (International oneironaut Shared Dreaming Project). I want to understand it and play, (do it).

Will you help me, Windhover?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Windhover@

I don't mean to offend you guys here but folks... IOSDP. IOSDP everywhere. http://www.dreamviews.com/f144
plz check out once? please? :yawnorama:

I really like the idea of making a password Mindcracker, it would be better if we have SD and confirm it in a sufficient way.
But... I don't want you to make failure like we did in IOSDP.

First, you are focusing on getting to a place, not meeting a person. This would be 'shared themed dreaming', not 'SHARED dream'.

Well, I'll tell you a story... For half a year IOSDP members tried to meet at Chicen Itza pyramid. All of them.. about 50 members I assume. I think I made it to the pyramid while I was lucid for 5 times succesfully during the half year. I think I made over 50 times attempting to go to the pyramid while lucid, but failed. In the 5 times I never met anyone and failed SDing.
I think only one case was successful SDing at the pyramid - this one member met a woman holding a baby at the top of pyramid... Well. only one successful SD attempt during a half year.

The meeting place itself make people a connection somehow, but it literally does not make you share dream with each other.

So we changed the Chicen Itza pyramid to Giza pyramid. More simple and everyone knows Giza Pyramids at Egypt.
The first night, Katsuno, Aeolar and I had a very big synch (fight with enemies in a closed space, and Katsuno and Aeolar were at the same place I think) We didn't managed to go to the pyramids but we somehow had a synch.
But it doesn't still define a shared dream, we rather had a 'same themed' SD.

So we realized that getting to a meeting place is ACTUALLY HARD if you are not good at achieving lucidity. Like Mzzck said, this was the biggest failure in IOSDP project. So we stopped meeting at place, instead we worked on getting lucid.

Lucidity is not required for SDing. However it allows us to find a specific person thru dream, Nomad said that.

So another half year I attempted finding a specific person while lucid for about 10 times I think, but almost of them I failed.... is it because the person lives far away and we don't sleep at the same time? (the person I tried to find lived in England)
(We've managed to find each other on the same night though, we were at the same place - school.)

What is a 'shared dream', really? Is it just having a 'meshing' dream, dreaming the same factor, a share dream? Is finding a specific person while lucid, and meet each other SHARING information, and then when you wake up you confirm the same exact place/ feature you saw/ conversation you heard a shared dream?

As of now I think the second question is right.
So whatever you're doing now for proving a SDing.... don't make failures every night, eventually becoming frustrated... and then conclude that 'SD is not real'. Of course password idea is still good - I really didn't try to prove SD because I only focused on getting lucid and or finding a specific person in dream.

We're starting a new SD project in IOSDP soon, based on all failures we've experienced we're gonna brainstorm ideas there to have real shared dream. We might include the password idea. So if you're interested, please join :)

---

And "Password" participants

I am thinking of choosing a night. Maybe ... ummm ... what's today? It's nearly 10 PM Thursday 26-July here, now. So I pick Wednesday 1-August. I'll make an incubation affirmation to zero-in on remembered dreams of that night.

I'll use Dale Graff's incubation advice.

I remembered two dreams, but nothing associated with trying to find the password or anything like that.

One dream involved me meeting a girl with red head wearing a black outfit. Her eyes were fairly big, anime eyes basically. The environment itself was blurry, and she emphasized her presence. I couldn't help but gaze at her unique facial structure.

The other dream was just random. Anyway, I'm late in these posts because there's a lot of driving involved this week and possible a bit of next week as well.

Redhead in Black, She is a Lesbian - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I got "kookaburra" from my nap. I didn't see one, I just asked what your password was and that was the answer that replied, from some unknown source. I'll see tomorrow if it's still kookaburra or if it changes.

I only remembered two random dreams.

One was me getting negative points in a classroom in High School I believe, and the other involved me throwing a prostitute at some dirt patch near a house.

This trip to New York and other areas going back is really messing my intentions up. Good luck to all participants as always. :)

Spoiler for Weird stuff:

http://www.dreamviews.com/blogs/link...stitute-36431/

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

For instance, the Rubik's Cube (aside from being two words) was a good choice because a cube is a nice, simple object that can be described any number of ways and still mean "cube." Oh, and I also think that if someone had guessed "colored ice cube" or "rainbow box," or something similar, you could definitely raise an eyebrow, or two. I wouldn't worry about people figuring out your passwords, either, as long as you keep them random.

---

Well yeah, of course, if someone posted "a box with a multiple colored hash on each side," instead of "Rubik's Cube", I'm not going to be a pissfart about it.

Keep up the good work, guys. I can't say if you're doing great or if you're sucking, that would skew the results! :D

Two random dreams again, one involving more airport traveling....(that's been coming up a lot lately), and the other was being inside of a waterfall cave. I think I had to wear or someone else had to wear a superhero costume with bright colors (mostly orange, red, and yellow).

I actually remembered the password attempt in my dream last night and a password appeared on a loading dock door attached to the office building I used to work at. There never had been a loading door there so it stood out pretty well for me.

Printed in large red characters was the password D0070 and a small sign which told people to enter the password to open the door. I thought it odd the password was printed on the outside of the door for all to see.


Anyway, just sharing. I am just happy I remembered the thread in my dream.

Probably nothing, but what the hey:

During a weak LD this morning, with thoughts of being on the lookout for the password in tow, my dream was interrupted by a tall biker-type guy with a distinctive mohawk hairstyle. Something made me think that was important, so I figured I'd share...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sageous

Probably nothing, but what the hey:

During a weak LD this morning, with thoughts of being on the lookout for the password in tow, my dream was interrupted by a tall biker-type guy with a distinctive mohawk hairstyle. Something made me think that was important, so I figured I'd share...

---

Just out of curiosity, when you say, "biker", do you mean "motorbiker" or "bicyclist"?

BTW, excellent work, everyone. Keep it up!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chard

Let me give this a shot. I've tried running a random number generator before without looking at it, then checking my device in the dream for the number. What happens, though, is that the number keeps changing within the dream to where I can't get a consistent answer.

That was a way for me to test the predictive power of the dream rather than a way to test shared dreaming. If someone does guess the password, how will we know it's not a dream predicting waking world phenomena rather than a shared dream? I'm not suggesting to modify the experiment further, it's just something to think about. And either result would be freaking amazing and be worth studying.

Anyway I'm going to start looking for the password and if I start getting a consistent message I'll post it.

---

It's certainly worth looking into, I like your idea, and maybe we can try doing that as well. I think this experiment that we're doing now has brought up a lot of issues about shared dreaming and made it more clear... I certainly don't think that this is the end-all-be-all experiment about shared dreaming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindraker

Thank you all for participating! I should start logging all your guesses in a file... this is going to get big really fast.

What I'm experiencing, at least, is that I'm getting a lot of detail and more dreams, as I'm trying this. I'm not sure if this is *the cause* or not. But I'm certainly enjoying it.

---

Mindraker, I would be willing to try this, but I have a question. If I am to find you in a dream, maybe some data would help, can you give us the following details? What city do you live in? A very general discription of yourself? Are you doing anything to enhance the chance you will dream of the word, like repeating it as you fall asleep?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sivason

Mindraker, I would be willing to try this, but I have a question. If I am to find you in a dream, maybe some data would help, can you give us the following details? What city do you live in? A very general discription of yourself? Are you doing anything to enhance the chance you will dream of the word, like repeating it as you fall asleep?

---

Sure. I have tried envisioning the password before going to bed (but not every night).
I am keeping my sleep schedule regular, going to bed at the same time every night, because it would be hard for you to hunt for a dreamer if I were awake playing World of Warcraft.
I posted a picture of myself on the Post pictures of yourself thread a while back. (My hair is about that long again, now.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mindraker

Just out of curiosity, when you say, "biker", do you mean "motorbiker" or "bicyclist"?

BTW, excellent work, everyone. Keep it up!

---

Motor Biker. Black leather, scruffy beard, etc... Pretty archetypical, I think.

Ok, so here is what I came up with. I focused on the memory of your picture and you being near the East coast as I went to sleep. I did have a dream in which you told me the password. Of course logic suggests it is most likely just an auto-suggestion dream, but who knows. I will only make this one attempt at it, unless a really profound dream comes up. I would be pleased if the word or the related concepts I will list are even slightly correct. I don't want to randomly guess each day, unless I know this quess is wrong, so I will stick with this.

The word was literally "balustrade." However the imagery, the dream you gave could have represented a ccouple other words which I will list in a moment. Here is the definition I just found for balustrade.

A baluster — also called spindle or stair stick — is a moulded shaft, square or of lathe-turned form, one of various forms of spindle in woodwork, made of stone or wood and sometimes of metal,[1] standing on a unifying footing, and supporting the coping of a parapet or the handrail (banister) of a staircase. Multiplied in this way, they form a balustrade.[2]

In the image they were clearly running along the top of a battelment of some kind, so I also feel the word may be something like the ones that follow. Tower, fort, castle, crenellation.


It would be too cool if I got it correct, but if I am wrong it would not be the least bit of a shock, as the challenge is not only shared dreaming. The challenge also involves doing it with someone who I have never met or spoken with, who is not specifically looking for me. Still, it was fun, and I am suprised I had a dream about it, even though in all likelihood it was just an auto-suggestion dream. Thanks ffor hosting this, and I will be interested to see the results.

Me likey this idea...My main lucid goal right now is flying to thomas square in hawaii and Im sure that will be an interesting experience.

One of my dreams this morning involved a cathedral. The bible college I went to was originally a catholic seminary. The chapel is beautiful and has some very rare stained glass.
This is what the buildings look like
Rome of the West: Photos of Old Saint Stanislaus Seminary
I cant find I picture of the inside but it was very beautiful when it was first constructed.

In my dream, I went inside the building to walk upstairs into the chapel but one of my professors said I wasnt allowed inside. I wasnt a student anymore so I couldnt go in. I couldnt even see the altar area because there were people in the way. I saw a friend but she didnt notice me...
Ive also had a dream in a catholic church about doctor who pointing the empire state building at me...

anyways, sounds like a fun experiment and I am about to begin my IOSDP experience. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

In my dream, I went inside the building to walk upstairs into the chapel but one of my professors said I wasnt allowed inside. I wasnt a student anymore so I couldnt go in. I couldnt even see the altar area because there were people in the way. I saw a friend but she didnt notice me...

---

How odd! One of my more vivid dreams from last night involved my wifes brother who wants to be a pastor. In the dream he took us inside a church when it was closed, but we got kicked out and he got in trouble, because we were not allowed in there.

let us into the cathedral mindraker!!!! lol ;)

Job Interview, Open Ceiling - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

The first dream involved a job interview, and then I was climbing on top of a ceiling, and the interior of the building was mostly made of white-coated wood.

The color white taking some role in the environment is becoming more apparent in my dreams, but of course, I haven't made any progress with this lucidity because going back and forth in this road trip forces me to sleep at random intervals at night.

And since I'm afraid to use my laptop alarm, I can't do WBTB in other people's houses without worrying about their own inconvenience.

Anyway, will sleep it off again, and set the intent of finding the password.

Take care everyone!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chimpertainment

let us into the cathedral mindraker!!!! lol ;)

---

LOL, I was about to say, if we were trying to find that Cathedral altar still, we're doing an awesome job, guys.

Something is strange. I just got back from downtown, and I bought a neckscarf from a store. It's one of those religious/incense candle - crystal shops that smell really nice as you go in. Well, it took me about 20 minutes to decide my neckscarf. I got my little neckscarf, put it on, went to the bus station. I waited for my bus, and the bus drove back to my apartment. Someone on the bus asked if I was "OK". I thought I was...
I came in to my apartment, and thought my neckscarf smelled a little too powerful of incense. So I rinsed it off in the sink, and it's drying now. My neck has a tingly-burning sensation... and I noticed that my eyes are WIDELY dilated, even though it's 1 PM and for some strange reason, I can't focus properly.
I think I'm going to take a nap.

^^ Damn.

Be sure to let us know if you woke up...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by debrajane

Dear Windhover

Will you do me a favour?

I get mixed-up and confused (easy) when trying to navigate around this huge Dreamviews site. I followed your link. But can't find the Thread you want me to read. Could you link me to one thread.

If you like, please open a thread, yourself, and we can talk about the NEW IOSDP (International oneironaut Shared Dreaming Project). I want to understand it and play, (do it).

Will you help me, Windhover?



And "Password" participants

I am thinking of choosing a night. Maybe ... ummm ... what's today? It's nearly 10 PM Thursday 26-July here, now. So I pick Wednesday 1-August. I'll make an incubation affirmation to zero-in on remembered dreams of that night.

I'll use Dale Graff's incubation advice.

---

Sorry I haven't seen your post earlier. I'll just post a link here in case if anybody is interested in http://www.dreamviews.com/f144/new-s...roject-134379/
I think we are having synchs after few attempts.

Sorry again interrupting guys, but good luck for the experiment :)

Nothing too interesting for last night.

I met a brunette who suggested I make a love song when I was speculating and worrying on how I can finish some random drawing project I was doing at a computer lab.

Another involved me killing someone, and then a dream rewind or dream reset where there's another (or the same girl) who is dead, without me being there with blood on my hands.

Love Song, Store Killing - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

Nothing too interesting for last night.

I met a brunette who suggested I make a love song when I was speculating and worrying on how I can finish some random drawing project I was doing at a computer lab.

Another involved me killing someone, and then a dream rewind or dream reset where there's another (or the same girl) who is dead, without me being there with blood on my hands.

Love Song, Store Killing - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

---

<0_o>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sageous

^^ Damn.

Be sure to let us know if you woke up...

---

Yeah, I'm fine now, thanks.

^^ Phew!

Only 1-2 days until I get back home, and hopefully make some progress with this. Anyway, I had a dream where I put in a few quarters at a Casino machine, and ended up winning $1,500 in total.

Winning at Casino - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

I am a beginner even while going to lucid stage; the best I tried, leads me to a stage were I am awake and my body is sleeping(experiencing sleep paralysis). This night while experiencing the same, I asked myself what is the password(I completely missed the cathedral part), a pixel started multiplying itself and when the screen made by those was almost 12*8ft big with a (blurred)human face on it, it said 'Condolence'.
P.S- I thought I had written it somewhere so I won't forget, but I forgot and this is the word that I remember after thinking really hard.

Finally back home, maybe now I can get somewhere.

Anyway, some dream elements to point out:

-Elevators
-Naruto Shippuden (I haven't watched that at all lately, and I had another dream related to drawings of Naruto characters, so I could be on to something, or it could just be a random event that somehow came up in a different way).
-Area with dried up autumn leaves
-Anime (Rave Master)
-Guy in Orange shirt having a gun tucked between his shirt and pants
-Hyu's avatar has a pink background to it (remember the pink bunny outfit someone had in a dream, but didn't get to post it until after you posted the password, "Pink Elephant?").
-A gray timer tick mark with the letter "B" in white font shows up.

And meeting Alyzarin twice, but I don't think that's important, since I'm finding her for personal reasons.

Alyzarin and Rave Master, Naruto Shippuden Resurrection, Raising Suspicion, Hyu, Weird Preacher - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rookie

I am a beginner even while going to lucid stage; the best I tried, leads me to a stage were I am awake and my body is sleeping(experiencing sleep paralysis). This night while experiencing the same, I asked myself what is the password(I completely missed the cathedral part), a pixel started multiplying itself and when the screen made by those was almost 12*8ft big with a (blurred)human face on it, it said 'Condolence'.
P.S- I thought I had written it somewhere so I won't forget, but I forgot and this is the word that I remember after thinking really hard.

---

Thank you for contributing. We're actually not trying to find the cathedral anymore; we're just trying to see if we can find the shared password. But thank you again for contributing!

I kinda skipped over the last few pages, its 4 in the morning here, but I'll probably read it tomorrow and see if i can contribute..

(Also, found it really funny you chose that cathedral, my apartment is 10 mins walk from there :D I might as well go and ask the priests what the password is :lol: )

Apart from my strange past-midnight-rambling sense of humor, um, could you summarise what the final rules of the experiment are? Is the password preset(you write it down before you go to sleep); is there a common dreamplace to allow the dreamers to connect, etc.? :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wandering

I kinda skipped over the last few pages, its 4 in the morning here, but I'll probably read it tomorrow and see if i can contribute..

(Also, found it really funny you chose that cathedral, my apartment is 10 mins walk from there :D I might as well go and ask the priests what the password is :lol: )

Apart from my strange past-midnight-rambling sense of humor, um, could you summarise what the final rules of the experiment are? Is the password preset(you write it down before you go to sleep); is there a common dreamplace to allow the dreamers to connect, etc.? :P

---

As far as I can tell, there are no rules. Mindraker has a word written down and will try to focus on it so it may be in his dreaming mind. Any one who is willing to try, should use any means available to them to try and make enough contact with his dreaming mind to come up with a word that either is the password or seems highly related to the password. We are not doing anything involving a place, that was just an idea from earlier.

So look at his picture (he links to it in a post) and I think he is in the east coast area of the USA, then use any skill you have and make a guess. At some point he will tell us what the password was, and we will see if any interesting results come of it.

Sorry I haven't added anything in a few days. Been gone and away from the internet. Now I'm going from sleeping on the floor for a few days to being back in my own bed so that change will probably result in a lucid tonight and I'll take another stab at the password if I do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wandering

I kinda skipped over the last few pages, its 4 in the morning here, but I'll probably read it tomorrow and see if i can contribute..

(Also, found it really funny you chose that cathedral, my apartment is 10 mins walk from there :D I might as well go and ask the priests what the password is :lol: )

Apart from my strange past-midnight-rambling sense of humor, um, could you summarise what the final rules of the experiment are? Is the password preset(you write it down before you go to sleep); is there a common dreamplace to allow the dreamers to connect, etc.? :P

---

Small world!

Basically, we have a 1 month period for anyone to try to find the password -- it's not in any designated "place", like the cathedral. Anyone can participate, and you can post your guesses on the forum, no matter how crazy they are. Please feel free to contribute, join, or leave at your desire.

In addition, it isn't necessary (for this experiment) that you sleep at the same exact time as I do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sivason

As far as I can tell, there are no rules. Mindraker has a word written down and will try to focus on it so it may be in his dreaming mind. Any one who is willing to try, should use any means available to them to try and make enough contact with his dreaming mind to come up with a word that either is the password or seems highly related to the password. We are not doing anything involving a place, that was just an idea from earlier.

---

LOL, you are exactly right! This thread began as a serious and logical shared dreaming experiment, and then it turned into a simple "guess the word I'm thinking of" game. :D

What is really funny, is that during this one month period of trying to "retrieve" the password, we will have so many guesses, that the chances are actually moderately high of someone simply guessing the right password. :roll:

Then we will have this person proclaim himself a shared dreamer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gills

LOL, you are exactly right! This thread began as a serious and logical shared dreaming experiment, and then it turned into a simple "guess the word I'm thinking of" game.

What is really funny, is that during this one month period of trying to "retrieve" the password, we will have so many guesses, that the chances are actually moderately high of someone simply guessing the right password.

Then we will have this person proclaim himself a shared dreamer.

---

Share dreaming happens spontainiously sometimes. I hope MindRaker keeps releasing a password every month for a year or more. It could take a year or more to begin getting close to making "hits".

The International Association of the Study of Dreams (IASD) only give folk (like me) one opportunity in July and three opportunities in October to practice Psi Dreaming each year.

At least MindRaker if offering me 12 opportunities a year.

I have not had a go for the one to be revealed on Wed 22-Aug. I hope to "intend" to dream the password in the dream I wake up from on Sat 11-Aug.

Please don't discourage him.

Last year after the 24/7 two week on-line pdc, 20+ people joined a super-private forum to practice for this years pdc. I got banned 9 days after they let me in.

Now people here on Dreamviews are offering me some practice. I hope MindRaker and others keep offering me opportunities to practice.

Practice makes perfect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gills

What is really funny, is that during this one month period of trying to "retrieve" the password, we will have so many guesses, that the chances are actually moderately high of someone simply guessing the right password. :roll:

---

For all we know Mindraker chose three words at random from the dictionary. If that's the case the chances of some one guessing that combination correctly are astronomical.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gills

Then we will have this person proclaim himself a shared dreamer.

---

Lol, no. If some one actually got the password correct they would have reason to continue experimenting with Mindraker. This thread by itself is obviously not going to prove anything. This thread began as a fun experiment and is still a fun experiment.




To the topic. I probably will only make guesses if I remember to do so in a lucid dream. Otherwise I would have to start dream journaling again. I hate dream journaling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gills

LOL, you are exactly right! This thread began as a serious and logical shared dreaming experiment, and then it turned into a simple "guess the word I'm thinking of" game. :D

What is really funny, is that during this one month period of trying to "retrieve" the password, we will have so many guesses, that the chances are actually moderately high of someone simply guessing the right password. :roll:

Then we will have this person proclaim himself a shared dreamer.

---

Statistically, though, we have to take into account the percentage of right guesses to wrong guesses.

Let's say the person only guesses one word, and it's right. That's more interesting than if the person posts every word from the dictionary, and obviously, it would include the correct word.

Why? Because in the first case, there is a 1-to-1 ratio of guesses to correct words; in the second case, there is a huge discrepancy between the number of guesses and wrong words.

Then again, let's say the person actually finds the word. Why would the person change his or her guess the next day?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dms111

Lol, no. If some one actually got the password correct they would have reason to continue experimenting with Mindraker. This thread by itself is obviously not going to prove anything. This thread began as a fun experiment and is still a fun experiment.

---

Yes, we're all here to have fun, and learn. I'm having fun and enjoying this. I hope you are, too.

We couldn't make *everyone* happy about this experiment, and so we can always try a different experiment. I'm glad that we had so many volunteers for this one. But... what we find out will be helpful for people interested in shared dreaming, regardless of the results.

I'm glad to see the thread is going well.


I suspect that even if these threads survive years it may not show any conclusive evidence of shared dreaming but it's still a worthy subject of discussion.

As for debates...yes, please take them to the other thread. You can copy posts there as needed or I can move them if you need me to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gills

My thoughts on this are very simple. I see no evidence that this event occurred, because it hasn't been done in a controlled study where the two dreamers are isolated and separately questioned by individuals overseeing the experiment. I'll be short and to the point: Unless I see a controlled study in which one dreamer can transfer a simple password to the other dreamer, I will refuse to believe in shared dreaming.

On another note, please don't derail this thread. If you want to discuss shared dreaming, go here: http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/shared...debate-120211/



Let's keep this one on topic please.

---

The experiment isn't even finished yet. Let's at least gather the data before we make our conclusions one way or the other. Yes, I do agree that there are elements in the experiment I would have liked to have been done differently, such as having all the dreamers dreaming at the same time, but that was outside of my control.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gills

As there is no password involved, the study is unreliable and essentially worthless. All we have is the two individuals telling stories that match one another. How does this show evidence of shared dreaming?

Absolutely no evidence of anything. Even I could do much better, with me and my wife memorizing several made-up dreams in detail, and then going into a study.

And again, please keep the thread on-topic. For shared dreaming debates, use this: http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/shared...debate-120211/

---

Again, we have to wait and see what the results are. The experiment isn't complete yet. Please feel free to contribute.

Posts moved to Shared Dreaming Debate.

Posts merged.

This test is now closed, as participation has stopped.

I am now posting the data from the test. The password was taken from:

The Collins German-English, English-German dictionary / by Peter Terrel... [et al] = Pons Collins Deutsch-Englisch, Englisch-Deutsch Grosswoerterbuch / von Peter Terrell [et al.] - 1st ed., HarperCollins Publishers, 1993.

The definition was selected by an online random number generator selecting a page from the English-to-German text.

http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/1618/passwordmu.png

The password that was selected by the generator was "blur". I wasn't overly content with that, as almost everything in my dreams are blurry. So I read a little more in the definition, and it mentioned "photograph". So I chose "blurry photograph" as my choice for password. There is a picture of me and my brother in my parents' back yard on my refrigerator; I chose that as my "blurry photograph".

Observations: I divided the results of the participants into two groups: one, being those who had a clear password recollection in their dream from that night, and another, those who didn't. My main observation was that those who had a clear-cut password recollection from their dream tended to have one simple password to present the next morning, whereas those who didn't, tended to present multiple guesses as to what the password was.

For example: Chard remembers one clear password "kookaburra".
Melanieb remembers one clear password "D0070".

But a dream not necessarily related to passwords presents a lot of different key dream ideas (High school, prostitute, New York...)

This was a trend I noticed throughout the experiment.

Other observations:

I was initally rather surprised with a few of LinkZelda's guesses:

"The environment itself was blurry..."

LinkZelda apparently uses the word "blurry" rather frequently in his DJ, as I found.

Another mention of "blurry":

The insides are just a blurry brown color with the wooden chairs, sofa, kitchen, etc.

and of "picture":

"I see a picture of a blonde anime girl"

Conclusion: I don't have enough evidence to believe this is telepathic communication. I think these are merely words that LinkZelda uses frequently, as can be seen by doing a simple search through his journal -- simply by opening his journal I can find 5 instances of the word "picture" and 7 instances of the word "blurry".

I would like to thank everyone who participated in this study, and look forward to any future ones.

Below, I am posting my raw data table.

page 1: post1918855
07-20-2012 09:16 PM - 7-21-2012 (pilot run):
password: Rubik's cube
No hits.

7-21-2012 - 7-22-2012 (pilot run):
password: Pink elephant

7-21-2012: post1919507 Pink Linkzelda

7-22-2012 - 8-22-2012 password: Blurry Photograph


7-23-2012 post1919951 Linkzelda password attempt

7-24-2012 post1920230 Ekyu password guess (Diving, psychology, library)

7-24-2012 post1920253 Linkzelda password guess (airport/train security, getting _scanned_)

7-24-2012 post1920320 dms111 password guess (weather, buildings, windows, helicopters...)

7-24-2012 post1920446 Chard password attempt (random number generator / number)
7-24-2012 post1920555 debrajane password guess (Caduceus)

7-25-2012 post1920714 dms111: lucid dream password attempt (sentences, two images, man & woman)

7-25-2012 post1921092 Linkzelda: password guess: (house, lady, one-eyed purple monster)
7-26-2012 post1921200 Ekyu: non-lucid password dream (can't remember)

7-26-2012 LinkZelda password guess: BLURRY: http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/passwo...ml#post1921617

"One dream involved me meeting a girl with red head wearing a black outfit. Her eyes were fairly big, anime eyes basically. The environment itself was BLURRY, and she emphasized her presence. I couldn't help but gaze at her unique facial structure."

"The environment itself was BLURRY, very dark, from gray to black. It felt as if this environment was so BLURRY to where it would look like a running ink painting of buildings, etc."

7-27-2012 post1921899 Chard password attempt (kookaburra)

7-27-2012 post1922233 Linkzelda password guess (high school, prostitute)

7-28-2012 post1922526 Linkzelda password guess (travel, airport, cave, superhero)

7-28-2012 post1922569 melanieb password attempt (D0070)

7-28-2012 post1922643 Sageous password attempt (mohawk biker dude)

7-29-2012 post1922871 sivason password attempt (balustrade) guess (Tower, fort, castle, crenellation)

7-29-2012 post1923019 Chimpertainment password guess (cathedral, church)

7-29-2012 post1923038 sivason password guess (pastor, wife, brother, church)

7-30-2012 post1923206 Linkzelda password attempt (interview, ceiling, white building)

7-31-2012 post1923756 Linkzelda password guess (brunette, computer lab, project, murder, blood)

7-31-2012 post1924377 Linkzelda password guess (casino machine, quarters, gambling)

8-1-2012 post1925054 Rookie password attempt ("Condolence", _blurred_ human face)

8-1-2012 post1925083 Linkzelda password guess (elevators, Naruto Shippuden, autumn, anime, man with gun, timer...)

8-10-2012 Blonde Anime Girl and Rei Ayanami, Permission Ticket and Bands, Dark Merlin and IRC Ban - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views Linkzelda picture, blur

I'm sorry, I just can't resist...

:cackle::cackle::cackle:

BTW, many of my dream journal entiries (offline) have the word "blurry" written in them. Examples: The dream started to fade and became blurry.

Maybe I am a shared dreamer, too? :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gills

I'm sorry, I just can't resist...

:cackle::cackle::cackle:

BTW, many of my dream journal entiries (offline) have the word "blurry" written in them. Examples: The dream started to fade and became blurry.

Maybe I am a shared dreamer, too? :D

---

You had the opportunity to post your dreams on the thread while the test was running. Now that the test is closed; you can create your own test, as was suggested in the dream debate thread.

I'm glad to have participated in this, I apologize for not posting much on the thread, but I figured that you were the type to still read DJ entries anyway. I honestly thought my dreams were too random to even be considered at a possible link to the password.

I figured that after observing my dreams from all of my entries, that my mind does give me what I want to achieve, in very very VERY vague ways that takes me a while to finally get a light bulb in my head. I'm sorry if I didn't analyze my dreams more, but they were just so random. Though the one that still intrigues me is the "Pink Bunny outfit" and "Elizabeth" post I made after you posted one password to be "Pink Elephant."

Anyway, I'm glad this experiment was set up, to me, even though it did not show enough of "finding a person in their dream" and "synching their sleep periods," it is amazing that even when non-lucid, even when logic is basically passive, that my mind still managed to pick off certain cues and hints to the password.

But, and please pardon me when I say this, when you picked the random number generator, I can't help but think that the number "69" was there, and the fact that I had a dream where I threw a prostitute over at a dirt patch outside at some house.

I know it sounds absurd, but I'm sure that even though "prostitute" wasn't related to the password, it could've been related to the random number generator.


I honestly, throughout the experiment, wrote on a small sheet of paper:

"I will find each new password for each night in mindraker's dreams." (something along those lines; and this was before you stuck to just one password instead)

"I will find Mindraker in his dreams."

There were a few others, but they had the same intention.

Now, I know this really isn't anything, but those art photos of Naruto Shippuden and the Scorpion....actually never mind, can't be anything related to a photograph.

I know these results did not prove anything substantial in showing that shared dreaming might be possible, but based on how my mind linked a few things mostly through random symbolism that I didn't consider (because after all, I was non-lucid in nearly all attempts). It does amaze me that despite the dream signs being simple, they did somehow associate with the process of how you figured out the password, and aspects hinting the actual password.

Either way, I would like to be the host if you want this time.

I mean, I practically recall my dreams almost every morning/middle of the night, since it's just one thing I can never give up on anymore (because I hate waking up in the morning feeling like the average joe who doesn't remember anything).

My recall is okay, I focus a lot on emotions and the environment, and can extend on and on if parts are really stuck on my head.

I know the number of entries themselves aren't enough to validate anything, except that I can recall most of the time when I wake up (or just calm down and think about things for a while).

Should I make myself the host this time, and set out a password this time? And let others try to find me or find hints to the password?

I could even make a list of the majority of my dream signs, to serve as archetypes to hopefully get someone to possibly link themselves into my dreams?

What do you say? I spend every morning typing dreams (most of the time), and basically forget them (and I mean that in a passive way) all the time unless it's something important (lucid of course, or just really hilarious situations).

I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to keep this going in this thread right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

I'm glad to have participated in this, I apologize for not posting much on the thread, but I figured that you were the type to still read DJ entries anyway. I honestly thought my dreams were too random to even be considered at a possible link to the password.

I figured that after observing my dreams from all of my entries, that my mind does give me what I want to achieve, in very very VERY vague ways that takes me a while to finally get a light bulb in my head. I'm sorry if I didn't analyze my dreams more, but they were just so random. Though the one that still intrigues me is the "Pink Bunny outfit" and "Elizabeth" post I made after you posted one password to be "Pink Elephant."

Anyway, I'm glad this experiment was set up, to me, even though it did not show enough of "finding a person in their dream" and "synching their sleep periods," it is amazing that even when non-lucid, even when logic is basically passive, that my mind still managed to pick off certain cues and hints to the password.

But, and please pardon me when I say this, when you picked the random number generator, I can't help but think that the number "69" was there, and the fact that I had a dream where I threw a prostitute over at a dirt patch outside at some house.

I know it sounds absurd, but I'm sure that even though "prostitute" wasn't related to the password, it could've been related to the random number generator.


I honestly, throughout the experiment, wrote on a small sheet of paper:

"I will find each new password for each night in mindraker's dreams." (something along those lines; and this was before you stuck to just one password instead)

"I will find Mindraker in his dreams."

There were a few others, but they had the same intention.

Now, I know this really isn't anything, but those art photos of Naruto Shippuden and the Scorpion....actually never mind, can't be anything related to a photograph.

I know these results did not prove anything substantial in showing that shared dreaming might be possible, but based on how my mind linked a few things mostly through random symbolism that I didn't consider (because after all, I was non-lucid in nearly all attempts). It does amaze me that despite the dream signs being simple, they did somehow associate with the process of how you figured out the password, and aspects hinting the actual password.

Either way, I would like to be the host if you want this time.

I mean, I practically recall my dreams almost every morning/middle of the night, since it's just one thing I can never give up on anymore (because I hate waking up in the morning feeling like the average joe who doesn't remember anything).

My recall is okay, I focus a lot on emotions and the environment, and can extend on and on if parts are really stuck on my head.

I know the number of entries themselves aren't enough to validate anything, except that I can recall most of the time when I wake up (or just calm down and think about things for a while).

Should I make myself the host this time, and set out a password this time? And let others try to find me or find hints to the password?

I could even make a list of the majority of my dream signs, to serve as archetypes to hopefully get someone to possibly link themselves into my dreams?

What do you say? I spend every morning typing dreams (most of the time), and basically forget them (and I mean that in a passive way) all the time unless it's something important (lucid of course, or just really hilarious situations).

I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to keep this going in this thread right?

---

I'd be quite interested if there were another test! Perhaps, though, we should start another thread. A clean slate. Start anew.

I'm kind of curious about the "pink elephant", too, I don't know what to make of it, but I kind of f***ed that up by posting the password too early on the board that morning, if we remember. I can't honestly use your dream journal post that day from after when I posted the password, as much as I want to, even if you are a 100% honest person who didn't look at the thread before writing your dream journal, etc.
Scientifically, I *have* to toss that result out. But it was on the second pilot run night anyway.

Alright, no problem! I'll start a thread myself, and hopefully follow the same guidelines as you did.

I'll be deleting this post, and then post something new in here with the link to the thread. Might take a while, but I think you'll like it. Most of it will be like how people get information in the IOSDP, so it won't be any attempt from me trying to be "unique" or anything of that sort.

EDIT:

Lol, guess I don't need to delete this because I thought I'd finish the other thread before someone posted. :P

Good luck... you'll need it trying to keep everyone happy.

Dear Linkzelda

Thank you for participating and I can't wait to have a go with your experiment.

I find the below very motivating.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

I'm glad to have participated in this, I apologize for not posting much on the thread, but I figured that you were the type to still read DJ entries anyway. I honestly thought my dreams were too random to even be considered at a possible link to the password.

I figured that after observing my dreams from all of my entries, that my mind does give me what I want to achieve, in very very VERY vague ways that takes me a while to finally get a light bulb in my head.

I'm sorry if I didn't analyze my dreams more, but they were just so random.

Though the one that still intrigues me is the "Pink Bunny outfit" and "Elizabeth" post I made after you posted one password to be "Pink Elephant."

Anyway, I'm glad this experiment was set up, to me, even though it did not show enough of "finding a person in their dream" and "synching their sleep periods," it is amazing that even when non-lucid, even when logic is basically passive, that my mind still managed to pick off certain cues and hints to the password.

But, and please pardon me when I say this, when you picked the random number generator, I can't help but think that the number "69" was there, and the fact that I had a dream where I threw a prostitute over at a dirt patch outside at some house.

I know it sounds absurd, but I'm sure that even though "prostitute" wasn't related to the password, it could've been related to the random number generator.


I honestly, throughout the experiment, wrote on a small sheet of paper:

"I will find each new password for each night in mindraker's dreams."

(something along those lines; and this was before you stuck to just one password instead)

"I will find Mindraker in his dreams."

There were a few others, but they had the same intention.

(...)

I know these results did not prove anything substantial in showing that shared dreaming might be possible, but based on how my mind linked a few things mostly through random symbolism that I didn't consider (because after all, I was non-lucid in nearly all attempts).

It does amaze me that despite the dream signs being simple, they did somehow associate with the process of how you figured out the password, and aspects hinting the actual password.

Either way, I would like to be the host if you want this time.

I mean, I practically recall my dreams almost every morning/middle of the night, since it's just one thing I can never give up on anymore (because I hate waking up in the morning feeling like the average joe who doesn't remember anything).

(...)

Should I make myself the host this time, and set out a password this time? And let others try to find me or find hints to the password?

I could even make a list of the majority of my dream signs, to serve as archetypes to hopefully get someone to possibly link themselves into my dreams?

What do you say?

I spend every morning typing dreams (most of the time), and basically forget them (and I mean that in a passive way) all the time unless it's something important (lucid of course, or just really hilarious situations).

---

and

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

Alright, no problem! I'll start a thread myself, and hopefully follow the same guidelines as you did.

I'll be deleting this post, and then post something new in here with the link to the thread. Might take a while, but I think you'll like it.

Most of it will be like how people get information in the IOSDP, so it won't be any attempt from me trying to be "unique" or anything of that sort.

---

here is the next bit of Robert L. Van de Castle's beautifull paper.

Paragraph 30 (D)

But

the most impressive finding was the dream correspondences displayed between the dreamers

on objects

and themes

that were not shown in any of the target stimuli.

Paragraph 31 next.

Link to thread:

http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/what-y...ml#post1931305

http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/passwo...9/#post1931326

Hope to see you there!

Now I feel guilty for not trying harder. I had a hard time remembering to search for a password in the few lucids I've had recently.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dms111

Now I feel guilty for not trying harder. I had a hard time remembering to search for a password in the few lucids I've had recently.

---

Hope to see you in LinkZelda's dreams! So far, it's been an interesting experiment!

Mindracker

Look, Look, Look, Your first target was Rubics Cube. My fourth was a rubics cube in 2009.

http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/...2610747077.jpg

I put a big sign on all my targets. I called the sign a “Unique Zone-in Number”. I meant to keep this up for hundreads of targets so the number was 001 002 etc. After the number I put the reveal date so they read:

001: 30 Sept 09 (rubbish bin)
002: 21Oct 09 (Tibetan salt rock)
003: 28 Oct 09 (onions)
004: 4 Nov 09 (Rubik's cube)

Below was my first Dream target

http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/...2617244208.jpg

A participant got a dream with long white tube thingies and I felt sorry that my only participant hand busted so bad because the target was the boarding house (where I live) kitchen recycle rubbish bin.

Then I remembered the used florescent lights behind the wheely bins. Those tubes had been there for months because they need to go to the dump and that only gets done when there is a build up of big rubbish like old furniture and broken TV's. So I took the recycle bin out of the kitchen and put it near the big wheely bins and took this picture (hahaah)

The second target was A Tibetan Salt Rock Crystal:

http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/...2624751309.jpg

No one participated in the target above but I got a man post a dream for the first and a nun posted a dream for the one below (I think) I can't remember now.

http://www.saltcube.com/out-of-body/...6349884110.jpg

I also woke up to this funny song which made me choose onions as the next target back then.

Susan Christie - I Love Onions - 1966 - YouTube

Uploaded by wilown01 on Apr 14, 2009
This is a fun song sung by Susan Christie.

Song Lyrics:

I don't like snails, or toads, or frogs, Or strange things living under logs, But, mmm, I love onions.

I don't like dancin' with crazy Ted, He's always jumpin' on my head, But, mmm, I love onions.

Onions, onions, la la la. Onions, onions, ha ha ha. Root toot doodle-ee-oot doot doo doot.

Onions, onions, la la la. Onions, onions, ha ha ha. Root toot doodle-ee-oot doot doo doot.

I don't like rain, or snow, or hail, Or Moby Dick, the great white whale, But, mmm, I love onions.

I don't like shoes that pinch your toes, Or people who squirt you with a garden hose,But, mmm, I love onions.

Onions, onions, la la la. Onions, onions, ha ha ha. Root toot doodle-ee-oot doot doo doot.

Onions, onions, la la la. Onions, onions, ha ha ha. Root toot doodle-ee-oot doot doo doot. Yeah!

The onion is a tuberous vegetable and is a member of the genus stinkus delicioso. It was highly prized by the ancient Egyptian pharaohs, and their friends and cousins-a. They cause watering of the eyes and rubifaction of the skin, but it is very, very tasty. (huhuh)

Onions, onions, la la la. Onions, onions, ha ha ha. Root toot doodle-ee-oot doot doo doot.

Onions, onions, la la la. Onions, onions, ha ha ha. Root toot doodle-ee-oot doot doo doot.

How vewwy, vewwy cwude!

LOL, that's awesome. Thanks for putting that picture up.