Thread: Password shared dreaming experiment

There's a lot of disagreement on this forum about shared dreaming and whether it's real, so I want to do an experiment to see if we can prove that shared dreaming actually exists. Why not? I'm a skeptic, make me a believer.

I propose that every night, I write down a password on a piece of paper at 10 PM (2200H EST), before I go to bed. I tell nobody what that password is.

There are a few participants in this experiment who, the next morning, will write what they believe to be the password on this forum.

I'll write on the forum what the password actually was the next day. We can see if we're right or wrong!

We can repeat this procedure very easily daily. New password, new night's sleep.

It would be ideal to also have a group *not* try to obtain "the password", and write down words that they encounter in their dream -- as a control group.

What would be a failed experiment? One in which we're not able to share "the password" with other participants.

What would be a successful experiment? One in which we ARE able to share "the password" with other participants, but also at a rate which is statistically unique compared to the control group. (e.g., let's say we choose a really weak password like "computer". One participant in the control group dreams about computers and one person in the password group happens to think of the word "computer". This is not statistically significant.)

Any other ideas and feedback?

It's a good start, but I have a few suggestions which might improve the whole thing:

This seems to be a test for precognitive dreaming and not shared dreaming. You want us to find a password which you wrote in waking life, not in a dream, which is a whole other deal if you ask me. Now, here are my suggestions:

1.) We all should have a place in the dream realm, where we go to, in order to retrieve the password.

Example:

That's a beautiful building, the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, Bulgaria. This is just an example, but it should be a building/house that we navigate to, once we become lucid.

Once you (Mindraker) are lucid, you navigate to this location, go inside the building, and tell the dream characters there your password. You could also write the password on the dream walls inside the dream building.

2.) Once we (other lucid dreamers) are lucid, we navigate to this location, go inside the building, and ask the dream characters who are inside the building, to tell us Mindraker's password. Or, we look to see if it's written somewhere.

And that would be it. If shared dreaming exists, by following #1 and #2 we all focus our dream senses, or even our psychic senses, on this location "out there", where the password is located.

Originally Posted by Jakob

It's a good start, but I have a few suggestions which might improve the whole thing:

This seems to be a test for precognitive dreaming and not shared dreaming. You want us to find a password which you wrote in waking life, not in a dream, which is a whole other deal if you ask me. Now, here are my suggestions:

1.) We all should have a place in the dream realm, where we go to, in order to retrieve the password.

Example:

That's a beautiful building, the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral in Sofia, Bulgaria. This is just an example, but it should be a building/house that we navigate to, once we become lucid.

Once you (Mindraker) are lucid, you navigate to this location, go inside the building, and tell the dream characters there your password. You could also write the password on the dream walls inside the dream building.

2.) Once we (other lucid dreamers) are lucid, we navigate to this location, go inside the building, and ask the dream characters who are inside the building, to tell us Mindraker's password. Or, we look to see if it's written somewhere.

And that would be it. If shared dreaming exists, by following #1 and #2 we all focus our dream senses, or even our psychic senses, on this location "out there", where the password is located.

Thank you, I appreciate your feedback.

OK, you raise a valid point here. The password which I would have created is something I wrote while awake, not asleep. How do people know that I am actually dreaming about this while I am asleep? That's a legitimate question.

Now, my concerns about telling everyone to go to some prearranged place in the dream world is that this element is a common element, a common experience, for everyone which will influence everyone's dreams. It's kind of "suggesting" to people what their dream should be like... but what we want is really only to observe the results after the dream has taken place. This could skew the results.

Originally Posted by Mindraker

Thank you, I appreciate your feedback.

OK, you raise a valid point here. The password which I would have created is something I wrote while awake, not asleep. How do people know that I am actually dreaming about this while I am asleep? That's a legitimate question.

Now, my concerns about telling everyone to go to some prearranged place in the dream world is that this element is a common element, a common experience, for everyone which will influence everyone's dreams. It's kind of "suggesting" to people what their dream should be like... but what we want is really only to observe the results after the dream has taken place. This could skew the results.

The point here is the focus. A "guide", a type of source/location where this password is located. Because if shared dreaming works on a "psychic level", which it probably does (can't think of any other way it could work), then our meeting at this location would focus our senses about going to a source in order to retrieve the password.

You are going into this building, in another "world", and you are leaving the password there.
I become lucid, navigate to this location, go inside this building in the same world (hopefully the same), and retrieve it.

The point of it is to concentrate on that somewhere, which has that something (in this case, the password).

Because if we just have a random dream with no connection to Mindraker so-to-speak, and everyone running looking for "a password", I just don't see much success with it to be honest.

Originally Posted by Jakob

Because if we just have a random dream with no connection to Mindraker so-to-speak, and everyone running looking for "a password", I just don't see much success with it to be honest.

I think you've genuinely hit on something that should be tested in two separate groups! Would giving people some kind of "location" give people a higher rate of success for finding the password as opposed to not giving people some kind of "location" to go looking for the password?

Originally Posted by Mindraker

I think you've genuinely hit on something that should be tested in two separate groups! Would giving people some kind of "location" give people a higher rate of success for finding the password as opposed to not giving people some kind of "location" to go looking for the password?

I just watched something about military remote viewers and the viewers were given coordinates of the target they are suppose to view. I think it's more accurate than just desription, that can be subjective.
But this is your project guys and I didn't mean to intrude. Good luck!

And maybe this should be moved to "Beyond Dreaming". I have the impression that the "Research" forum isn't visited that much, at least not as much as Beyond Dreaming.

In Beyond Dreaming it would have a much bigger audience.

Only 59 views so far, which proves that this thread would fit much better under Beyond Dreaming, for obvious reasons.

Good idea, Mindraker; as was yours, Jakob.

Also, Mindraker, for what its worth, if a dreamer finds your location, I don't think finding the password will be a problem, given that finding the location (aka navigating the aether to the singular point of your dreaming mind) is vastly harder than finding the password once there. Indeed, I have a feeling that, once found, there is an excellent chance that the location will literally become the password, given the power of the discovery. So don't worry too much about people finding it.

Can I add one more small suggestion?

Instead of writing the "password" down before bed, why not have it "come to you" during your dreams, perhaps even during your visit the imaginary location you proscribe? That would avoid the precognitive problem, and might allow the added twist of having someone else give you the password during your dream.

... just a thought.

I hope people pay attention to this, Mindraker; good luck!

Originally Posted by Sageous

Good idea, Mindraker; as was yours, Jakob.

Also, Mindraker, for what its worth, if a dreamer finds your location, I don't think finding the password will be a problem, given that finding the location (aka navigating the aether to the singular point of your dreaming mind) is vastly harder than finding the password once there. Indeed, I have a feeling that, once found, there is an excellent chance that the location will literally become the password, given the power of the discovery. So don't worry too much about people finding it.

Can I add one more small suggestion?

Instead of writing the "password" down before bed, why not have it "come to you" during your dreams, perhaps even during your visit the imaginary location you proscribe? That would avoid the precognitive problem, and might allow the added twist of having someone else give you the password during your dream.

... just a thought.

I hope people pay attention to this, Mindraker; good luck!

If I understand what you're saying, the whole password creation aspect of it should be done in the dream -- not in the waking world. That makes a certain amount of sense.

I guess I was thinking someone could take the piece of paper from me before I went to bed, and there would be no way I could "change my answer" as to what I thought the password was. If I typed the password as something from my dream, then there's a lot of subjective room to interpret what I actually saw in my dream. It's like me trying to remember my dreams -- sometimes I have good dream recollection, sometimes I don't.

Originally Posted by Mindraker

If I understand what you're saying, the whole password creation aspect of it should be done in the dream -- not in the waking world. That makes a certain amount of sense.

I guess I was thinking someone could take the piece of paper from me before I went to bed, and there would be no way I could "change my answer" as to what I thought the password was. If I typed the password as something from my dream, then there's a lot of subjective room to interpret what I actually saw in my dream. It's like me trying to remember my dreams -- sometimes I have good dream recollection, sometimes I don't.

That's a good point, and it validates your original plan. I guess I was being trusting by thinking that the first person you'd want to "prove" this to is yourself, and, since it would be useless to lie to yourself, why would you lie to anyone else? Silly me, right?

This is all very good, but who can get lucid every single night in order to try getting the password?

I can't get a LD every night. I wish I could.

Originally Posted by Jakob

This is all very good, but who can get lucid every single night in order to try getting the password?

I can't get a LD every night. I wish I could.

True, but even if one didn't have a LD, one could still (incorrectly) guess at the password, which would be fun to watch.

And let's say every 3 weeks, theoretically, you *did* get that clairvoyant LD which told you the correct password -- it would soon become obvious, as we make a table of your guesses...

Originally Posted by Mindraker

True, but even if one didn't have a LD, one could still (incorrectly) guess at the password, which would be fun to watch.

And let's say every 3 weeks, theoretically, you *did* get that clairvoyant LD which told you the correct password -- it would soon become obvious, as we make a table of your guesses...

Well, I'd suggest the next time you get lucid, go to the Alexander Nevsky Cathedral (picture I posted), enter it, and tell the password to all the dream characters inside. You can also write it on pieces "dream paper" and put on it on the "dream walls" inside the building. Explain to the dream characters what experiment you're doing.

When you get this task accomplished, let me know. Then I'll try to find it in my next LD. I'll go to the same place, talk to the DCs, and look to see if there's something on the wall, expecting the password to be there.

BTW, notice how this thread is... silent? Where are the shared dreamers now?

Originally Posted by Jakob

BTW, notice how this thread is... silent? Where are the shared dreamers now?

... You should give them at least one good night's sleep so they can find out about it. Shouldn't you?

OK, let's try to find the password on the altar of the Cathedral, unless somebody wants someplace a little less religious. It's 9:11 PM here... so I'll do a pilot run in about an hour.

Hope to see you there

I look forward to see what you all say is in my brain.

Originally Posted by Mindraker

OK, let's try to find the password on the altar of the Cathedral, unless somebody wants someplace a little less religious.

I don't have a problem with that.

It's 9:11 PM here... so I'll do a pilot run in about an hour.

Hope to see you there

I look forward to see what you all say is in my brain.

Now, you'd need to get lucid in order to do this. So I wish you a succesful lucid dream tonight.

Originally Posted by Mindraker

OK, let's try to find the password on the altar of the Cathedral, unless somebody wants someplace a little less religious. It's 9:11 PM here... so I'll do a pilot run in about an hour.

Hope to see you there

I look forward to see what you all say is in my brain.

It would be fun, in my opinion, if the location was related to the Akashic records, and it could help with finding the password in a library, or some association of a library (since the the brain usually does conceptualize the Records based on those archetypes) if others do not want to use a religious infrastructure.

But I guess the Cathedral is just fine, since it is big and has a better chance of sticking in as an archetype. And I see you're an hour ahead of me, I usually sleep around Midnight your time, but I think I might sleep a little earlier.

I hope to sleep for 3-5 hours, do a WBTB, and attempt a WILD (and if not, at least I will have faith that doing a WBTB reinforces basic logic repressed in NREM sleep to finally trigger). I wish other participating in this luck as well.

It may take a while, maybe months, but who knows.

Originally Posted by Jakob

This is all very good, but who can get lucid every single night in order to try getting the password?

I can't get a LD every night. I wish I could.

Is shared-dreaming an action that requires lucidity? Did I miss a meeting?

Originally Posted by Sageous

Is shared-dreaming an action that requires lucidity? Did I miss a meeting?

Lucidity is not required for dream sharing, but for an experiment like this it is absolutely required. You want to take control of your dream so you can navigate to location X, and look for Mindraker's password.

I know I can't become lucid every night, but I am willing to participate in this. My dream recall is okay, as long as I get a decent amount of sleep. You can check my Dream Journal if you want, though I don't think it will matter to make me a potential candidate.

I am open to the possibility of shared dreaming, but I've been the one who just waits in the shadows, listening to other people's views and suggestions in hopefully validating the possibility of it.

This may not constitute as enough merit for my competence with dream recall and trying to find others (since I know recalling the possible password is the main objective here), but I have had dreams where I have found information about others in their past state and close to their present state, though those numbers are actually few because I didn't like the idea of potentially encroaching aspects of people's psyche unless they give me permission.

As for my goals in dreams, I don't have serious intentions right now, just making sure I keep up with my recall, and possibly extend it more. I'm trying to focus more on the environments, since I'm decent at recalling dream character's moods, my mood, and how I feel at certain moments.

And 1-3 months ago, I had a little episode with the dream theme of infiltration, guards, sporadic killing, and even a few associations with things like the Akashic Records. Those intentions have died down a little bit, but I wouldn't mind being cannon fodder until more people are tempted to try this out.

As for my honesty, if I can't recall any dreams, I will still put "No Dream Recall." And recalling my dreams and keeping a consistent dream journal is one of my main hobbies every since I joined this forum.

I'm pretty active on this forum, even if when I'm realizing it has its waves of people coming in and going out, and I still find time to be on here when I'm back at college again.

If this can be done daily, then this should give me more room to get used to the setting of this experiment. I may not be an experienced lucid dreamer, but I am passionate about these things beyond the practical aspects of dreaming.

Would it be appropriate for me to make a Workbook in this section of the forums showing my progress in this experiment, instead of posting all of it in here?

I could do my best to set how many hours of sleep I had before trying to attempt a WBTB+WILD, and a few details.

As for real life situations, I'm headed for somewhere at the moment tomorrow morning, so I may have to sleep early. But after the small trip is over, I'm sure I can get my feet back to this, and it won't shift my sleeping that much anyway.

Again, I know I'm not the experienced lucid dreamer, but I have had signs of potential of getting information, and I would love to show those dreams, but I figured that they would just be considered fairy tales and "absurd" anecdotes.

I'm sure there might be more people interested in this, just like how Alyzarin set up a Menthol experiment, and it's been getting significant progress since then.

I'll have to read into this process a little bit more, but I did glance over the initial posts. Looking forward to being a vessel in showing some evidence that shared dreaming may be possible.

Also, I'm really open to things like this, but I try not to bite my teeth down into those beliefs.

I think I can use a guide to help me with things like this, but she only appeared a few times though, since I wanted to focus on other things than finding dream guides or spirit guides, etc.

Anyway, enough about that, I hope others can offer more ways to make the experiment more effective. And I'll do my best to offer as much input, and to be honest with the dreams I will experience.

EDIT: Right now, my time zone is CST -5:00 I think? (6:50 PM when I made the edit).

Originally Posted by Linkzelda

As for my honesty, if I can't recall any dreams, I will still put "No Dream Recall." And recalling my dreams and keeping a consistent dream journal is one of my main hobbies every since I joined this forum.

This is just as important as having a positive result, IMHO. If you are, in fact, participating in the experiment, then your results should be logged, whatever the results are.

The first night (the pilot night) 20 JUL 2012 10 PM - 21 JUL 2012 400 AM EST, the password I used was:

Rubik's cube (whether it was the image, the object, or the word of the Rubik's cube on the altar of the cathedral. For me, it was the object itself.)

I have to say, my dream *was* weird last night!

Originally Posted by Mindraker

This is just as important as having a positive result, IMHO. If you are, in fact, participating in the experiment, then your results should be logged, whatever the results are.

The first night (the pilot night) 20 JUL 2012 10 PM - 21 JUL 2012 400 AM EST, the password I used was:

Rubik's cube (whether it was the image, the object, or the word of the Rubik's cube on the altar of the cathedral. For me, it was the object itself.)

I have to say, my dream *was* weird last night!

My results: I had a series of non-lucid dreams which were completely unrelated to the subject.

But I have to say that I thought the password assignment would work differently. I thought that you (Mindraker) would place this password near the alter, and then not change it at all. People would then try to retrieve it for days, weeks, months.

I'm sure you understand that it is very difficult for you to use a new password every night? So why not make it easier for yourself?

Originally Posted by Jakob

My results: I had a series of non-lucid dreams which were completely unrelated to the subject.

But I have to say that I thought the password assignment would work differently. I thought that you (Mindraker) would place this password near the alter, and then not change it at all. People would then try to retrieve it for days, weeks, months.

I'm sure you understand that it is very difficult for you to use a new password every night? So why not make it easier for yourself?

Wow, we've already come across so many things here, and we're not even 24 hours into the experiment.

My initial hypothesis was, if dream sharing were possible, I could sleep with a password in mind (e.g., "Rubik's Cube"), and someone else could sleep at the same time, and supposedly that other person would be able to find the password in his/her dream.

But apparently -- there also seems to be disagreement as to whether we even need to be dreaming at the same time for dream sharing to take place...? I mean, I thought in order for my dream to go to you, our dreams need to be "in synch" at the same time. (That's why I like the idea of using an EEG machine... it monitors brain activity in real time.)

Who knows... I could be wrong... that's the point of the experiment.

So... If I change the password every night, we can pinpoint any telepathies down to a 24 hour period. Actually, it would be more like a narrow 6-hour window, because it would be the time that I would be asleep.


If I leave the password unchanged... it would kind of be like hacking a lowercase email password... eventually, with enough guesses, you'll get it. But that's just brute force... that doesn't necessarily mean we're telepathic.

Dear mindraker

Thank you for this opportunity. I will play every night.

I will use Dale Graff's instructions for psi-dreaming but I will "intend" to get a psi dream about the password and not a personal precog.

I will record in my dream journal

Here are Dale Graff's instructions that I will use:

Originally Posted by debrajane

Interviewer:

What can people do to train themselves for precognitive dreams?

Dale Graff:

Ok

Actually it's not that difficult.

The first thing, I would say is, "the attitude". You have to accept the possibility that it's possible.

It's not dissimilar to how we train for remote viewing.

You accept the reality of the phenomenon and say, "Yeah it's real", you don't have to be a believer, just accept the possibility.

Then

In terms of dreams the best aproach is

To begin a "dream journal"

and

"intend" each night to remember something.

It doesn't have to be a specific kind of dream. It's just whatever it is your dreaming about.

"Start recording" a dream or two. You don't have to do every one. We dream about 10 or more times a night anyway. You don't remember all that.

Originally Posted by debrajane

Interviewer:

So like, with that plane dream I would woken-up, wrote it down, explained what I saw and just put it in a journal.

Dale Graff:

Yeah, just jot down a few notes. You don’t have to write the whole thing out because you might not be finished with your dream cycle for the night.

Interviewer:

Mm mm.

Dale Graff:
The best thing to do is have a little note pad at your bedside and just jot down a few words. Then when you do wake-up in the morning, looking at those few words will trigger the entire thing. It will bring back the memory of the entire dream.

41:41

And it’s usually quite effective. But in terms of dreams, after you have experienced remembering dreams and recording them in your journal, writing them out, that is like sending a signal to your subconscious mind that you really are serious about this. And it helps reinforce your intention.

Then after a while, after maybe a few days, a few weeks of practice like this, then set aside a specific objective, like:

“I desire to remember a dream, (a psychic dream or a precognitive dream) about something that I will be encountering in the next day or something unique that will catch my attention". Whatever it is.

And hope that the dream, intend for the dream to be the last dream (or one of the last dreams) of the night and that it be as brief as possible.

With these strategies, with these intentionality’s it will help reduce all the static, all the noise that people normally have in a dream. And so the psi-dream or the precognitive dream is very brief, it’s very much to the point, it’s easy to remember, and it’s very clear.

So

With that kind of intentionality, it’s part strategy, you just simply practice at it until you have it down to the point of an art.

Interviewer:

Now when you do this does it invigorate you in your physical state? When you start dreaming and learning how to do this does it make you physically feel better?

(43:10)

The above is post 14 and 15 of this thread:

http://www.dreamviews.com/f19/dale-g...6/#post1915398