DMT Trip vs. Lucid Dreaming

[Jewsiah]

If you know what i'm talking about the two have much in common. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml Does DMT use produce an artificial Lucid Dream?

[Distant Clone]

For those that don't know, DMT (Dimethyl tryptamine) is produced naturally by the pineal gland, during REM stages of sleep (dream time). I'm not really sure you picked a good question to ask since it may be the case that DMT produces a natural dream, be it lucid or not. I don't know exactly how DMT interacts with the dreaming, whether it is a byproduct from dreaming, the product that causes whatever chemical reactions that cause dreaming, et cetera.

[Jewsiah]

DMT, is a psychedelic drug, i've never heard of it being found in the penal gland during rem sleep. The trip of Dmt (which is usually found in a pinkinsh color) is quite amazing. you smoke the shit, it taste like shit, and within two or three hits you've passed out. only you havn't. your in some kind off world inside your head. it feals like your there for hours, but in reality it's only for a few minutes. you wake up, there are still some visual pyschadelic effects (i saw the walls moving into themselves and shit) but they last only a few minutes. the fact that you pass out and enter your mind (where the real trip takes place) is where i see the simliariteis to lucid dreaming, or just dreaming in general. only it's ten times more amazing then any kind of dream i hae ever had. read some of the trip reports at erowid and you see what i'm talking about

[Cyclic13]

If you've never heard of it being produced by the pineal gland you obviously have alot of reading up on DMT to do... here you go... http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/2.htm#DMT http://www.rickstrassman.com/dmt/chaptersummaries.html

[Universal Mind]

Originally posted by Jewsiah If you know what i'm talking about the two have much in common. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt.shtml Does DMT use produce an artificial Lucid Dream? I am still trying to learn as much about that issue as I can. If you look into the General Discussion topics from back in July, you will see where I asked the same question, even using "vs." in the way I asked it. A few months later, somebody started another such thread. I hope we can learn more about this specific issue. I'll tell you what I have found out so far... DMT is a natural substance of the body, and it is produced in the pineal gland. There are strong theories that the body's natural DMT plays a role in dreaming, especially really vivid dreams. I found one web site back in July where a scientist said something to the exact effect of, "Lucid dreams are induced by DMT." He even gave a molecular formula representation of the phenomenon. I have read a lot about the drug, and my hypothesis/theory is that the DMT trip is a really vivid lucid dream experience, but one that cannot be controlled and almost always involves an element of terror. Terence McKenna, formerly the world's strongest spokesperson for DMT, admitted that he was not a skilled lucid dreamer but said that DMT takes a person to "hyperspace", the landscape of multidimensionality and bizarre conscious entities, the DMT world, which is also the dream realm, which can be accessed without taking the external drug. He didn't say specifically that the same experience can be had if the dreamer is not familiar with the DMT experience, however, but I think it can. I found another web site that said the same thing. It makes perfect sense to me. McKenna also said that he sometimes experienced his exact mode of DMT trip when he smoked the stuff in his dreams. That tells me that the dream state can create the DMT state, because they are the in the same mental landscape. My official conclusion at this point is that reading about DMT trips and mastering lucid dreaming would give you the philosophical/spiritual/recreational benefits of DMT, but without the lack of control or ability to leave the trip if it goes bad. Lucid dreams can be controlled, and that results in much more of a feeling of security in the first place. However... I am still extremely curious about taking external DMT. If I had the smokable crystals, I would go home and smoke them right this second (because I am currently off the sobriety wagon again). The problem is that nobody in Mississippi knows what the Hell I am talking about when I bring up DMT. I have no idea where to find the stuff. The smokable crystals create the short trip you talked about, and that is what I want. What I do have easy access to is ayahuasca brew that contains DMT. The brew is something you drink, and the trip doesn't last just 10 minutes or so. It can last 8 hours!!! I don't want to enter that picture, watch it turn into a horror story, and be stuck there for 8 hours. Drinking the stuff is extremely tempting, but I know what a bad idea it is for somebody who has never taken DMT before. The thing is, I have had some trouble with drugs for a while. I have never been homeless or sold my body or anything, but I know that I am the the type of person who is either in a state of vowed sobriety for life or else somebody who gets messed up every single day. I prefer the former over the latter. Any way, I have learned that my sobriety is all or nothing. I can't leave the door open to some day finally coming across smokable DMT and doing it, while staying completely sober until then. The only way I can avoid blowing a bunch of money on being part of the furniture from leaving work until going to work is to shut the door on drugs completely. That means taking a vow of also never taking DMT. That is why I am hoping I can convince myself that I don't need to take external DMT and can just master lucid dreaming and get a much better version of the same thing. Fortunately, it does really appear that that is the case. By the way, I have read a lot about 10 minute DMT trips that are so horrifying that people live in terror and don't sleep much for a few weeks after doing it. Lucid dreams are controllable (to a certain degree, and in many cases completely) and immediately escapable. Plus, if you know you are dreaming, it is easier to write off freaky dream characters as figments of your imagination. When external DMT has absolutely flooded your brain, you are completely at its mercy. Hallucinations that are way beyond your control and inescapable are much more difficult to write off as not real. If anybody can add to this, or subtract from it, I will definitely appreciate it. Thanks.

[MartinB]

Originally posted by Jewsiah The trip of Dmt (which is usually found in a pinkinsh color) is quite amazing. Terence McKenna said that DMT should be white, and that DMT found in colours such as pink, yellow or brown indicate that someone botched the job. Orange DMT is supposedly the really rough trade. I really want to try DMT though. It sounds exactly like the experience that I'm looking for.

[Raz]

I came accros DMT by coinsedence when I was in australia. a friend of mine handed me a glas vapor pipe and a turbo lighter. I was already pretty wasted on a mix of other things. MDMA, some cocaine, weed. I tasted like smoking tar and as soon as I had taken a hit the entire world changed. Colors, shapes, people all morphed like carzy. It made LSD feel like sunday school. It was realy scary until I relised I could controle it to a certin extent. But soon after I relised that it ended... The other people who took it had much more experiance with drugs then me and went to "sleep" for about 10-15min going in to a totaly difrent state of beeing. I can say I wont take DMT again... But then again... after a incedent that hapend to me about 7 months ago I prob will never do any hard drugs again. I'm done with those tools...

[Wayward Oneironaut]

Alright, I am also interested in DMT - have never tried it externally, although if it is part of natural dreaming, I guess its part of my daily life anyway , and thats what leads to my current essay - 'Why Are People So Afraid Of "Drugs"?' I have been thinking about this for awhile now and am taking this moment to explore this question a bit. First off, maybe I'm confused - "drugs" is just a word to point out ingestible chemicals, right? I guess "drugs" are also supposed to alter human chemistry in one way or another. Ok, my first issue here is this: can't everything that we come into contact with during our lives be considered a drug, or at least behavior-altering in some way? When I walk out of my house and see a bright red stop sign, isn't that red just a chemical/electrical thunderstorm of neural activity re-interpreted by my mind? No, its not an ingestible chemical, but doesn't it alter our chemistry anyway? And thats just a stop sign! How about we sit on the old couch for 2 or 3 hours straight and have the light emitted from our television spray us with not only colors, but images, and complex storys with several millions of individual frames. Another way to get scared about "drugs" is to label them addictive or habit-forming - but isn't that a bit disingenuous as well? Sugar is ingestible, habit-forming, and a chemical .. not only that it is packed into just about every damn thing in a grocery store. I have read that sugar has been shown to cause withdrawal symptoms, as well as guilt feelings after it has been ingested. Not to get on a rant here, well, why not, to get on a rant here - our supposed "clean" lives are surrounded by stimulants and depressants, addictive substances and situations and people. At least when you willingly and bravely and respectfully ingest a psychedelic, you know you're altering your next few hours of consciousness .. I for one think thats way more sane than living under the assumption that you're clean while all the time you are being silently manipulated by all the mind-altering images, substances, and situations that surround you. This isn't really an argument in favor of psychedelics, more a question to honestly ask yourself about how "clean" your really are, how un-manipulated by chemicals your existence really is...

[MartinB]

Originally posted by Wayward Oneironaut How about we sit on the old couch for 2 or 3 hours straight and have the light emitted from our television spray us with not only colors, but images, and complex storys with several millions of individual frames. Nah... 3 hours @ 30FPS = 324,000 frames. Not "several millions". Seriously though, I agree. I've seen how rediculous and irrational people can become through TV addiction, sugar addiction, behaviour expectations, etc. And these are typically the same people who might criticise me for occasionally using magic mushrooms. I can say one thing for sure: A night experiencing the effects of magic mushrooms is almost certainly more valuable and productive than a night of staring at a glowing box showing people guess boxes with different values of money in them. Thinking too deeply about these ideas often makes me wonder what the world is coming to.

[Dangeruss]

If you don't think you can handle a DMT trip, why not try salvia as a test-run? Get a bong, a gram of 20x, and a jet lighter, and smoke it all in one hit. The average person will be plunged into something that resembles a psychotic break for at least 10 minutes, sometimes as long as 40. There is just no way to control a salvia trip that's that strong, so whether you feel ecstatic or terrified is a good indication of whether or not you're a safe tripper. Of course, DMT reputedly leaves you with some small degree of control, so theoretically it could be a little easier to keep your head on straight. Of course, I've never done DMT, only read about it. If I hear of it existing within 100 miles of me, though, I'll run out and get it. It's like the holy grail of drugs for me. I'd even give that witch's brew a try if it were available (only problem is no drugs 2 weeks before or 2 weeks after... that had better be one hell of a trip). One of my friends is an accomplished lucid dreamer and doesn't know much if anything about DMT. At the peak of his dreaming career he was telling me about his dreams where he went to space. Anyway I guess on a couple occasions he said he went beyond space, into a realm of dreaming that sounds like a trip + a half: Originally posted by Crack Baby Sometimes I have these dreams where I reach the end of space.. then everything goes black, but at the same time white, and I'm flooded with every emotion I've ever felt. I feel love and hate and sadness and happiness and exhiliration and terror all rushing over me at once, I'm completely overwhelmed by it all. Then I wake up breathing hard and sweating and I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry or what, I just know that I want to go back there every night until the day I die.

[Lucifer Sam]

I agree with WO. Drugs aren't bad. There are so many good drugs that are muddled in with the bad ones that the immense load of propaganda can ruin the impression of such drugs for others. I myself was very much against all non-establishment drugs for some time. It comes down to letting go.

[The_Musician]

I really want to get my hands on some freebase dmt, but it seems no one in garland (TX/USA) knows where to get it, or has even heard of it. I will keep my eyes open though. Sounds like an awsome experience.

[braha_kahn]

Originally posted by Lucifer Sam I agree with WO. Drugs aren't bad. There are so many good drugs that are muddled in with the bad ones that the immense load of propaganda can ruin the impression of such drugs for others. I myself was very much against all non-establishment drugs for some time. It comes down to letting go. I agree If it's natural it's ok imo Stay away from chemicals That's my opinion... I'd also rather drink Ayahuasca (DMT Brew) then smoking synthesised DMT...

[Ryden]

I think a lot of people need to take a couple steps back. DMT is arguably the strongest psychedelic, and not necissarily safe for those who are just looking to "see shit and shit". Read up, know what you're getting into, and be safe about it.

[The_Musician]

erowid is your freind.. everything you need to know about any drug out there. And no offense, but one of the reasons to lucid dream is to "see shit and shit..." DMT is safe. There have been nothing but pipe burns and bumps on the head. Thats from people who didnt know how to properly enjoy it when they hit breakthrough effects. Past the weird patterns and distorted vision.

[Ryden]

Yes but lucid dreaming and DMT are two massively different experiences. No offense but that comparison is not quite spot on because, for lack of better wording, LDing is much less of a brainfuck than DMT. Plus, erowid, as you cited, actually has quite a bit of negative experiences, including someone who got seriously messed up. Don't get me wrong, I am pro-psychedelic, I just want people getting into things like DMT to read up and be safe. Having a bunch of people running around spouting "oh it occurs naturally in the brain" and "oh its the spirit molecule" and telling everyone that its safe is not right.

[Universal Mind]

Originally posted by Ryden Yes but lucid dreaming and DMT are two massively different experiences. How are they different? Would it be possible to study up a great deal on DMT and deliberately create such an experience in a lucid dream? I have read from many sources that DMT plays a role in lucid dreaming, so it seems like a certain degree of DMT experience would be happening in a lucid dream even without trying to have the DMT experience. Do you know how it all works? I can't shake my obsession with that drug which I have never done but seems to have my name written all over it. By the way, do you know what part of the United States or Canada has easily accessed DMT crystals? In Mississippi, I might as well be talking about fairies on Neptune.

[DJ Dead Llama]

Hmm... I was wondering is DMT legal? How is it produced? Synthesized in a laboratory, or extracted from a living human?

[imported_Berserk_Exodus]

No, Dimethyltriptamine is not legal. It's usually extracted by underground chemists and specialized laboratories by professional ones from any of the various plant sources in which it can be found. Anyways, it can't really be directly extracted from the human brain because it is synthesized and used so fast, it being directly related to serotonin.

[Dangeruss]

unless I'm mistaken, DMT occurs naturally in thousands of species of plants and animals

[imported_Berserk_Exodus]

Tru dat. There are some that believe (myself included) that DMT is directly related to the formation of concioussness as the mind began to evolve from the precambrian mud. If you guys haven't read it, go pick yourselves up a copy of DMT: The Spirit Molecule. I know the NSA is probably cataloguing this as we speak, but I'll say it anyways: I intend to start growing Phalaris grass in a big way and after I take a chemistry course next year I'll get my own production cycle going...

[Wayward Oneironaut]

I am just finishing up reading DMT: The Spirit Molecule. Very interesting read! There really needs to be more research into DMT and psychedelics in general. I think dreamstates are probably fueled by DMT, especially vivid, lucid dream states; although very low levels of DMT. Yeah, anybody interested in this should read the previously stated book - very balanced and thorough overview of the psychedelic experience.

[Universal Mind]

Does anybody know how one can go about getting smokable DMT extract? I am extremely curious about that stuff. I have talked to zillions of people I know about it, and very few of them had ever heard of it, and only one person claims to have done it. Nobody has the slightest idea how to go about getting it. Is there a place in the U.S. or Canada where I could ask around and find some? Is it abundant in California or maybe somewhere else? (Disclaimer: This is purely for purposes of mere anthropological education.)