OOBES AND SHARED DREAMING RELATION TO SCIENCE

**UMJ** · 04-23-2004 01:17 AM

NO LOGIC!!!!

Trying to make things such as astral projection and shared dreaming more logical by trying to give a more scientific or more believable explination only leads to counterproduction in developing these skills.

You see, you cannot try to incorporate science into such processes. Why? Because science has not evolved to the point where it can categorize such phonoemina. That is why scientists don't believe it.

Science cannot even detect the human soul much less begin to understand it's uses, it's applications, and it's link to the mind and the body.

The soul is an entity like no other. The mind and the body can be seen, but the soul cannot. Couple this with the attitude of religious freaks and other accurances scientists come to the conclusion that it does not exist. And even when a scientist believes that it does exist because of their scientific way of thinking they won't ever find an answer. They're looking for an answer that suit's science, when one does not exist.

All of this leads to the creation of a limited paradigm on the scientists part making all efforts on the scientists part to believe such things futile. All research on NDE and OOBE's have nothing to show for it accept for the accounts of what happened. Because they cannot bar from their inadiquite scientific method they cannot see what is before they're eyes.

In contrast, a random openminded person who simply doesn't ask how does it happens but how to do the process can achieve the rpocess with small but relative ease.

That is why I am asking everybody at DreamView.com to stop being skeptical or trying to give a scientific explination for such things as shared dreaming or OOBEs.

Instead of asking
"How could this possibly happen or work?"
"What exactly happens to make these processes work?"

Ask
"How do I do this?"

That's all you need to do. I've spoken with a couple of, what I would call, OOBE and shared dreaming masters today (and yes, I told them about this site). And what do I find in them hat I don't find in any of you here?

When they first started out and learned to lucid dream the only questions
they had pretained to how the process was done not how the process worked.

All you have to do is
a.) Believe in the process. Knowing and believing is two different things. Most people "know" about shared dremaing but you are hesitant to "believe" in shared dreaming.

b.) Understand how easy it is to do and that your are simply reawekening a dorment skill in which EVERYBODY can do.

c.)being hypnotised into doing it is always a plus

***

Because of my previous adventures in NLP, photoreading, and hypnosis I had a very open minded and confident look at lucid dreaming. I used hypnosis and reality checks to guage lucid dreaming and in just three days the process was mastered. I think the remembering your dreams step is bullshit because all you have to do to remember the lucid dream you just had is tell yourself while in the lucid dream, "I'm going to remember this."

I haven't had an OOBE or shared dream because I haven't tried but I know if I did it would occur.

Anyway I hope this litte eye opener did some good at changing your point of view on shared dreaming and OOBEs.

Well Seeker I finally posted something. I hope your happy now.

Ev · 04-24-2004 01:21 AM

Very good post.

My thoughts exactly.
OOBE's and LD's are not about trying to explain how. It's about accepting every possibility. Try it, and soon you will travel beyond normal human perception.

**Seeker** · 04-26-2004 01:43 AM

OK G! Your on. Let's do a shared dream sometime this week.

I'll IM you Monday and work out the details and secret code words!

**Dream-Master** · 04-26-2004 03:04 AM

Hi UMJ,

I like your proposal for people to try to do creative dreaming or OBEs. But I believe it is fine to ask why it happens and undertsand that other universe. In so doing we can understand new paradigms which may not have existed before. I feel this is especially true when one laready belives in these things, and is not just trying to be skeptical.

**givememyleg** · 04-27-2004 01:04 PM

i like your attitude

CT · 04-28-2004 02:02 PM

*shrugs*

To each their own opinion, who knows OBE's are real or not, I just choose to believe there are different explanations for it then others. If someone asks things about OBE's on this forum, I'll share my views on what they are, and others are allowed to share theirs. Mine just happens to be the more, scientific one.

That is why I am asking everybody at DreamView.com to stop being skeptical or trying to give a scientific explination for such things as shared dreaming or OOBEs. [/b]

Remember the email Ice got? Icedawg wants dreamviews.com to educate people about Lucid dreaming, without the stuff about OBE's, and other things possibly identifiable with 'occult' or 'gimmicky' things.

**Xisdence** · 04-29-2004 02:54 AM

at the end of the day isnt anything possible......i mean i couldnt turn my keyboard into a block of gold right now but maybe in a different dimension were time doesnt exist i could do it

i thought of a stupid theory which sounds a bit far out..... if one thing is not possible..then it creates a void or suction as the universe is complete with anything possible

Obe is real

**Kaniaz** · 05-04-2004 06:00 PM

Attempting to explain the astral realm with our current bounds of sciences, words and "pre-built" understanding (i.e: we all know about gravity, two things can't occupy the same space at once), is impossible. Part of it can be explained, but not all of it.

**rogue_noir** · 05-23-2004 05:04 AM

We're still centuries away (if ever) from reconciling OOBE's, astral phenomon, etc. with Science. There are many paradigms that'll need to be shattered (such as the non-existance of the soul) before there's any hope of reconcilliation. After all, the purpose of science is to explain how reality works, and if OOBE's are real (which I believe to be so), science should seek to explain them eventually. On the other hand, astrology is a completely different matter...

**killfrenzy** · 05-24-2004 11:24 PM

Ive always thought it would be possible to prove OOBEs by using those aura photograph machines, you know the ones that give an outline of someones aura and if someone had a limb or a digit missing, it will be present in the aura picture... know what im talking about???
Well what if you could take one of these pictures of somebody at the exact point when they left their body, do you think it would show the aura hovering above the body?

**Kaniaz** · 05-25-2004 09:50 PM

Good idea actually. But knowing our luck, scientists would come up with a "perfectly plausible" explanation.

**Dreamworld** · 12-03-2007 04:03 AM

I would have to disagree with what you think are the views of a scientist. True, and credible sciencists, such as Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Newton, and Einstien were incredible people that used vast amounts of imagination to propel these discoverys. Back then sciences were condoned non logical by religious prosectution. I just wanted people to know that me, taking a carrer in mechanical, and quantum physics is extremly spiritual and frown at absoulte logic.

**LucidFlanders** · 12-03-2007 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by Kaniaz

Attempting to explain the astral realm with our current bounds of sciences, words and "pre-built" understanding (i.e: we all know about gravity, two things can't occupy the same space at once), is impossible. Part of it can be explained, but not all of it.

I agree. People just think of physical things like things you see, touch, and smell etc things are real and anything that you can't is a complete waste of time and not real. But what would i know? i can't prove there is non physical things. i failed grade 9 easy science and the last science i ever did. But what is the truth, really? we aren't that advanced, so what do we really know to be true.

**LucidFlanders** · 12-03-2007 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Seeker

OK G! Your on. Let's do a shared dream sometime this week.

I'll IM you Monday and work out the details and secret code words!

That's like saying i want an LD for Monday from someone who's not done an LD, isn't it?take what people say about their "shared" dreaming with a grain of salt with people nowadays but nobodys been able to do shared dreaming and been able to show people they did it, so we just gotta take their word for it. I bet people laughed at others who said "i know how to controll my dream and do whatever i want in it". I wish somehow we could prove it's real...of course that doesn't mean anything really if it was proven except we can connect to other people.

**Fergie1** · 12-03-2007 11:05 PM

This thread is like 3 years old.

**arby** · 12-04-2007 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by DreamGuy

This thread is like 3 years old.

BLASPHEMY! TIME IS PART OF CURRENT SCIENCE! LET GO OF SCIENCE! LET GO OF TIME!

Good points in this thread though.

**space-cadet** · 12-04-2007 02:19 AM

Professor William Tiller, a theoretical physicist who spent 35 years researching consciousness and matter at Stanford University in California, th what we see with our physical eyes comprises less then 10 per cent of the known universe.

This is because human vision operates only within a limited range of the electromagnetic spectrum. For instance, we cannot see radio waves, which carry huge amounts of information, yet we know they exist.

Similarly, Miceal Ledwith, a former professor of Theology, who for ten years was President of Maynooth College at the National University of Ireland, reminded the sceptics that when, in 1861, Dr Ignaz Semmelweis had claimed there might be some unseen link between surgeons who didn't wash their hands and the high rate of infection in childbirth, his mainstream colleagues ridiculed him.
Yet he had found the first evidence of what was later to become known as bacteria.

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