Nirvana, Enlightenment, Ultimate Truth

[jamous]

Can Nirvana be achieved, ultimate truth found? Is this a real thing or is it simply an idea, an ideal, proposed or supposed to be possible by Buddhists a long time ago? Has anybody ever truly achieved Enlightenment? I just read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse and it really got me interested in pursuing the "Buddhist" path. I haven't really researched Buddhism enough in the least, but if I were to have a better idea of how realistic the goal of enlightenment is I might be more inclined to and inspired to set out on such an ambitious spiritual sojourn. Thoughts anybody?

[silicovolcaniosis]

nirvana is an extreme form of meditation, it is simply a realm in your mind where there is no emotion, and subconcious thoughts, some people think its supposed to be a gateway or heaven but its actually a form of alpha wave sleeping.

[SKA]

Using the Buddhists "See-through-the-illusion-of-Duality" viewmode I have started solving problems and questions of all kinds and getting alot of answers. It seems to dissolve all forms of contradiction into a sensible unity. "Reality"consists of 2 subrealities, inseperably interwoven with eachother; Subjective, Personal Truth(Ego) & Objective Truth. Both are equally "Real"and at the same time equally Illusionairy. These 2 often seem to contradict eachother extremely but this is the illusion of Duality of which I spoke. So using this viewmode you can see that Nirvana IS a Gateway to heaven (Subjective experience) AND is a form of alpha wave sleeping.

[jamous]

nirvana is an extreme form of meditation, it is simply a realm in your mind where there is no emotion, and subconcious thoughts, some people think its supposed to be a gateway or heaven but its actually a form of alpha wave sleeping. Using the Buddhists "See-through-the-illusion-of-Duality" viewmode I have started solving problems and questions of all kinds and getting alot of answers. It seems to dissolve all forms of contradiction into a sensible unity. "Reality"consists of 2 subrealities, inseperably interwoven with eachother; Subjective, Personal Truth(Ego) & Objective Truth. Both are equally "Real"and at the same time equally Illusionairy. These 2 often seem to contradict eachother extremely but this is the illusion of Duality of which I spoke. So using this viewmode you can see that Nirvana IS a Gateway to heaven (Subjective experience) AND is a form of alpha wave sleeping. I thought enlightenment, once reached, was a form your consiousness takes on permanently. Am I misunderstanding? And Ska: "Using the Buddhists "See-through-the-illusion-of-Duality" viewmode I have started solving problems and questions of all kinds and getting alot of answers." Any chance you could elaborate on that?

[Jamie7777]

In Cheng (1) there was a deaf person named Er Long (2). Although he has never understood a word in his life, many people have sought his advice. Wen Ren (3) asked Lao Tan (4), "King Ben (5) kept his people from rebelling with Er Long's advice. King Xing (6) acquired his position after consulting Er Long. King Guai (7) is now keeping Er Long for his advice on how to win the war with the Kong (8) People. He has never understood a word in his life! When people try to explain the difference between water and tea to him, he would just walk away. How can this deaf and dumb person be so helpful to the kings?" "That's simple," answered Lao Tan. "This man is a sage. Never having understood what words are is probably his greatest asset. As soon as he sees a person, he understands everything about the person. He knows what is wrong with him, and knows a solution to the problem. This is called Seeing the Whole Person." "What do you mean by that?" "You must not think of words to describe a person. When you think of words to describe a person, you recognize the person only as a set of words. Since each word is specific to an idea, you see the person only as a set of ideas. How can you comprehend the whole person if you see him only as a small set of ideas? "Similarly, he solves the kings' problems. When he sees a problem, he understand it as a whole. Because he does not formulate a person's problem into words, he see all sides of the problem. When we solve problems, we think of words to characterize the problem. Then we think of ways to counter the words we don't like. He does not do that. He does not try to come up with a solution by manipulating the words characterizing a problem. He comprehends the essence of the problem and does not just use a few words to characterize it. This is called True Comprehension. He then bases his solution on how to counter the entire essence of the problem." "Have you achieved True Comprehension?" inquired Wen Ren. "No. Unfortunately, I was not born deaf. I grew up learning to use words to distinguish between things. Although I no longer see a difference between good and bad, I still cannot disregard the difference between water and tea. The words I learned prevent me from reaching True Comprehension." (1) city (2) ear deaf (3) knowledgeable person (4) old chat (5) stupid (6) capable (7) obedient (8) aggressive "I know everything!" exclaimed Yi Sheng (1) Jia Sheng (2) said, "You do?" "I have read and memorized every single book!" "Then you must have read about the village of Zheng (3)." "Yes, I did," said Yi Sheng. "Would you like me to recite it for you?" Jia Sheng said, "That's not necessary. Let me tell you the story. King Hao (4) founded Zheng far away from civilization. He kept the village safe from other villages by keeping it secluded and unknown. He also thought to keep the village from internal strife by eliminating the word "war" from usage. He figured that if they have no word for war, they could never think of the concept. Thus, they would be safe from internal warfare. King Hao's peaceful village prospered over time. They were harmonious in every way. Because of this, they became arrogant and thought they knew everything there was to know about the world. "Meanwhile, other villages grew and expanded. The village once far from civilization soon became surrounded by other villages. In particular, the village of Wu (5) was jealous of Zheng's rich farmland. Wu threatened war against Zheng, but since the people of Zheng did no know what war was, they could no imagine how another village could possibly take their farmland away. They believed war was another word for bargain. They did not surrender. Wu attacked the next day and made them all slaves. "The people of Zheng did not realize their vocabulary was limited. They did not realize their intellect had limits because of the words available to them. They were caught up in arrogance, assuming they knew everything. When a foreign concept was introduced to them, they could not comprehend it. They did not even know it was foreign until it was too late. This is called Trapped in Language. "Do not make the same mistake. Just because you have read and memorized every single book, you still do not understand the concepts beyond the words of the book. Do not assume you know everything. Words are deceitful - they encourage you to believe you can understand everything. But you can never know everything through the words in the books. You must go beyond words to truly understand the world." (1) second disciple (2) first disciple (3) upstanding (4) good (5) war Chi De (1) went to Wang Le (2) as a disciple. Chi De: "What is heaven?" Wang Le: "What kind of question is that?" Chi De: "Is it like the endless ocean?" Wang Le: "Not exactly." Chi De: "Then is it the endless generations of people?" Wang Le: "Perhaps." Chi De: "Then it must be the stars at night." Wang Le: "Well..." Chi De: "Then it is the blue sky that extends forever on a clear day." Wang Le: "No, no. Go away. Stop wasting my time. You who try to describe the indescribable with words can never know heaven." (1) remember (2) forgotten Xing Tzo (1) went to see Liu Ze (2). "I have just been to the strangest place!" Liu Ze asked, "What is so strange about it?" Xing Tzo said, "First, everyone in An (3) is always happy. Second, the people do not celebrate birth of mourn death!" Liu Ze replied, "I have been there. The people there do not have a word for death, and they do not have a word for life. They think it's all part of a continuum. When a baby is born, the child is regarded as an extension of the mother and father's bodies. Why would they celebrate what already exists? When the mother and father die, their bodies become food for the rice which feeds the child. Why would a child mourn for having food? Thus, the people of An are always content. "We think of life as good, and death as bad. If there were no words to describe a distinction between life and death, we would also view the process as a continuum and be happy. But because we have words for these two things, we think we must love one and hate the other. We exalt life and work too hard to maintain it. When we are about to die, we regard it as a loss and are saddened. If we are alive, we are not content. If we are about to die, we are not content. Without words, we would be as happy as they. This is called Transcending Language." (1) walking (2) staying (3) peace Zh'ang Ming (1) wanted to be a sage so he went to visit Confucius. He asked, "If I memorize and follow everything you say, will I become a sage?" Confucius replied, "Heavens no! You are taking a chunk of clay and molding the outside into the shape of a pitcher. But you fail to carve out a space to hold water. How can you expect the clay to be a pitcher if it has no emptiness inside?" (1) pretender Based on the style of Chuang Tzu: Basic Writings, translated by Burton Watson.

[juroara]

enlightenment is on-going, it doesn't end the enlightenment that most people talk about here on earth, is an attainment of enlightenment that makes you a master over any obstacle that earth tosses at you. in that you have the enlightenment to overcome emotional and physical pain. as well as the enlightenment to heal yourself on an emotional and physical level - and ultimately this earthly enlightenment results in the enlightenment of overcoming death itself. but thats just the beginning it isn't a 'goal' or an end to itself. it is a way of being. to answer your question, has anyone ever achieved it, yes, or we would not know about it. the first step to enlightenment is asking questions, sincerely and being mentally open to answers - rather than keeping your own biased idea of what the answer is. enlightenment is synonymous with the spiritual path, a path of seeking a higher truth, your personal inner truth, and a path of reuniting yourself to some higher power/truth for some that means connecting with some cosmic force, a oneness with the universe. for others that means connecting to God, which in this scenario still makes you one with the universe through an omnipresent God. understanding the relationship enlightenment has with spirituality is what can empower you to take on this path. spirituality will give you the tools, the most common is meditation. not to be confused with religious practice which is an OUTER practice. spirituality is an inner/personal practice and has nothing to do with being apart of any outer church or religion. it is about the self. it should also be mentioned that science also helps a great deal with enlightenment. some very exceptional scientists have reached a level of enlightenment through the discoveries of science - but only because they related their discoveries to themselves by asking "what does this discovery say about my own truth?" but science as a whole is not out to ask that question about the self. maybe it'll ask questions about mankind as a whole - but not on the level of the self.

[saxonharp]

I thought enlightenment, once reached, was a form your consiousness takes on permanently. Am I misunderstanding? And Ska: "Using the Buddhists "See-through-the-illusion-of-Duality" viewmode I have started solving problems and questions of all kinds and getting alot of answers." Any chance you could elaborate on that? The Bohdisattvas have a saying that speaks to this:"Before enlightenment, you chop wood and carry water. AFTER enlightenment... you chop wood and carry water."

[HonerableMoUsE]

that was absolutely super to read.

[jamous]

enlightenment is on-going, it doesn't end the enlightenment that most people talk about here on earth, is an attainment of enlightenment that makes you a master over any obstacle that earth tosses at you. in that you have the enlightenment to overcome emotional and physical pain. as well as the enlightenment to heal yourself on an emotional and physical level - and ultimately this earthly enlightenment results in the enlightenment of overcoming death itself. but thats just the beginning it isn't a 'goal' or an end to itself. it is a way of being. to answer your question, has anyone ever achieved it, yes, or we would not know about it. the first step to enlightenment is asking questions, sincerely and being mentally open to answers - rather than keeping your own biased idea of what the answer is. enlightenment is synonymous with the spiritual path, a path of seeking a higher truth, your personal inner truth, and a path of reuniting yourself to some higher power/truth for some that means connecting with some cosmic force, a oneness with the universe. for others that means connecting to God, which in this scenario still makes you one with the universe through an omnipresent God. understanding the relationship enlightenment has with spirituality is what can empower you to take on this path. spirituality will give you the tools, the most common is meditation. not to be confused with religious practice which is an OUTER practice. spirituality is an inner/personal practice and has nothing to do with being apart of any outer church or religion. it is about the self. it should also be mentioned that science also helps a great deal with enlightenment. some very exceptional scientists have reached a level of enlightenment through the discoveries of science - but only because they related their discoveries to themselves by asking "what does this discovery say about my own truth?" but science as a whole is not out to ask that question about the self. maybe it'll ask questions about mankind as a whole - but not on the level of the self. thanks for the response! Interesting stuff. But what you said "to answer your question, has anyone ever achieved it, yes, or we would not know about it." That doesn't really say anything, it might just be an old theory.