Astral dynamics and EWOLD

[Native Dreamer]

Has anyone used the book astral dynamics? Did you meet any sucess or was it accurate? I trying to choose between reading that or EWOLD for the next week or so.

[Supernova]

Astral Dynamics = Astral Projection EWOLD = Lucid Dreaming which topic do you want to read about?

[Native Dreamer]

They both interest me . I mean I've read a lot of LD stuff from this site and I've read 1/4 of EWOLD. I guess I want to read the astral projection book as i hope it may have some practical applications but I don't want to get sucked in by potential fluff. That's why I asked if astral dynamics was useful/ accurate. Thanks.

[TJuulsgaard]

I read both with great interest. Astral Dynamics isn't "fluff" both explains many things that could also help you to understand and practise LD's more indepth (Energy-work, trancework (Meditation) and much more... ) when I read EWOLD after Astral Dynamics i thought some explanations were missing from that (EWOLD). You will undoubtly read quicker through EWOLD, so start with that and then read AD. I must admit I had more succes with LD's than APs, but Astral Dynamics opened up another world for me and learned me to go into trance, and especially by doing the rope-exit-technique I REALLY could feel my energy-body putting up the pressure to go out of the body. Definately some cool sensations...

[Xetrov]

I've read EWOLD, its a 100% recommendation from me. Triggered my LD adventures a few years back. So it was both succesful and accurate for me. Astral dynamics, however, to me is another kind of book altogether. It has useful instructions how to trigger OBE's, but those OBE's are, I feel (after much experimentation myself), happening "inside" your mind, and not outside your physical body. So, as a guide to induce WILDs, its pretty useful. But please take their explanations of OBE's with a grain of salt and experiment for yourself before reaching a conclusion as to the veracity of their claims.

[Native Dreamer]

Okay thanks both of you I'll finish ETWOLD then I guess get into AD at a later date thanks for the information it was helpful.

[moonshine]

EWOLD is the one to read. You might pick up the basic techniques in Astral Dynamics, but the explanations are based on a belief system. EWOLD provides largely scientific explanations. As an analogy, you may believe its gravity that holds you down (EWOLD), or you may believe that invisible monkeys do so (AD) . Either way, your standing on Earth. But only one is correct.

[juroara]

that's a pretty stupid and pathetic comparison don't spreading your garbage that spirituality goes against science

[moonshine]

that's a pretty stupid and pathetic comparison don't spreading your garbage that spirituality goes against science I'd say it clearly reflects my personal bias, but makes the point nonetheless. A more relevant comparison is this:- The process for inducing Lucids and Astral Travelling are virtually identical. EWOLD (i.e. science): Dreams are an internal world which most likely allow us to a) act out threatening situations as practice for real life and b) allows our brains to wire our memories together, keeping whats worthwhile whilst cross referencing them with existing memories (or schemas) and dumping whats not - hence explaining the strange random nature of dreams as a by product of this process. Lots of scientific evidence to support this. Astral Dynamics: Your actually leaving your body and entering the astral plane. The only evidence for this: The dreams themselves.

[TJuulsgaard]

I won't take this discussion with you again, Moonshine. You don't believe in AP's and don't intend to do some serious research on the subject. Do some unbiased research before speaking as if you know the truth and nothing but the truth on this subject.

[moonshine]

I won't take this discussion with you again, Moonshine. You don't believe in AP's and don't intend to do some serious research on the subject. Do some unbiased research before speaking as if you know the truth and nothing but the truth on this subject. I never asked you to. My response was for the benefit of the OP who asked for opinions. But it would be interesting to know if there was any "evidence" for the "astral plane" which wasn't based on subjective experience i.e. experiences which just as readily could be generated in a dream and driven by the dreamers expectations. On a side note, you might be interested to know that I recently experienced the "Ghost Limbs" the Astral Travellers like to discuss. I felt I was in my body but I was able to move an arm and a leg (and see them) whilst my actual arm and leg remained still. Yet when I got up, it was a conventional False Awakening entering into a very typical lucid dream. From this I can conclude that the "ghost limb" phenomenon is evidence of nothing but another weird and wonderful way in which the mind deals with the switch from external to internal inputs. Though I'm sure someone else will tell us that this is our consciousness leaving the physical plane and that the pins and needles of Sleep Paralysis was actually our Chakra energy flowing out of our body and that because I sensed both my real and dream leg it was clearly an OBE. Which brings me neatly back to my point. Two identical experiences, equally valid in the subjective sense. Two very different explanations, very different in the objective sense. One has the support of "Science". One has the support of "faith". It is highly probable that only one is correct. So my advice to the OP remains the same. Read EWOLD. Besides, its a shoe in. The overwhelming DV concensus is that EWOLD is the Lucid Dreamers "bible" and should be the first book anyone reads.

[TJuulsgaard]

well Moonshine you know you are asking me to protest whenever you do one of those: this is the truth, and only the truth-posts you tend to make on this subject. The last one you made is much better... and more to my liking (not that you care... i guess) You keep mentioning the "astral-plane" but I'm mostly talking about the "etheral-plane" when discussing OBE's (also called the Real time zone") this is where other people can verify the existence of an "astral-body". You are right nothing has been scientifically proven, but I believe that it is rather: Science couldn't prove how "this and that" could happen, than: Science proved that it couldn't have happened. And I've read about many of those instances where science couldn't explain what just happened. So yes I believe. YES EWOLD is the bible of lucid dreams, something that science have proved existed - so off course read that first - if you want to be baffled and ask yourself if there could be such a thing as OBE's then read Astral Dynamics. Damn, now I'm having the discussion again...

[Supernova]

not everything can be explained with science. Otherwise, there'd be no religion, or spirituality for that matter. And I don't see where "faith" comes in here.

[moonshine]

not everything can be explained with science. Otherwise, there'd be no religion, or spirituality for that matter. And I don't see where "faith" comes in here. The very definition of faith is a "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence". If in a choice between scientific evidence and unvalidated spiritual opinions you choose to accept the opinions clearly you are operating on "Faith".

[moonshine]

You are right nothing has been scientifically proven, but I believe that it is rather: Science couldn't prove how "this and that" could happen, than: Science proved that it couldn't have happened. I disagree. It is clearer than that. Science offers a clear objective explanations for otherwise subjective experiences.

[Denny22]

Native Dreamer, seeing as you only have three lucid dreams under your belt I'd suggest EROLD. It's full of the basics and should get you on your way. Now, from what I've seen and hear regardless of your beliefs Astral Dynamics is supposedly very dense with information and may go over your head. Go with EWOLD then expand from there if you really must. EWOLD is the perfect basis for any lucid dreamer.

[TJuulsgaard]

I disagree. It is clearer than that. Science offers a clear objective explanations for otherwise subjective experiences. I know you disagree but science sometimes isn't up for the job or isn't at the right place at the right time. Some things can be so uncontrollable that science can't be there when it happens to verify its existence. Sometimes science have to explain things like OBE's as remote viewing or ESP to understand how a result came about. I say once more: You should read Ian Currie: "You cannot die". (does anyone have a link to a txt-file on this?!?)

[Xetrov]

I say once more: You should read Ian Currie: "You cannot die". (does anyone have a link to a txt-file on this?!?) Give it up, Moonshine is not going to change his vision on this. Neither are you (or me for that matter). Not saying this is a bad thing, people just differ.

[TJuulsgaard]

I agree on that My only problem with some of Moonshine's posts are those where he claims that "WILDS and OBE's are the same" like its the truth and nothing but the truth.

[Phantasos]

I agree on that My only problem with some of Moonshine's posts are those where he claims that "WILDS and OBE's are the same" like its the truth and nothing but the truth. Sometimes moonshine is not superopen-minded, but in this case he is right. If you do not agree just list criteria which one can use to distinguish one from another. For example, I used a method which is used both by APers and WILDers. How am I supposed to know have I aped or wilded?

[Xetrov]

Isnt that too much off topic now, there's some threads there already discussing the differences etc... this was about a guy and what book he should read ...

[LucidFlanders]

Sometimes moonshine is not superopen-minded I have yet to see a time where he has been just a tad open minded. It's ruined BD for me reading his posts. Sometimes i like to just kick back and play around with things that we don't know/understand yet. I rather wonder about things then use theorys to say "this is proof", but that's just me i guess. Different strokes for different folkes i suppose.

[C911]

I have only read a little of this thread, but i am already getting mad so i wont read that much more. EWOLD is a good book for LUCID DREAMING. Which this site is dedicated to. I believe that you can find anything out on this site that you can in that book. Astral Dynamics is for ASTRAL PROJECTING. Which this site is not dedicated to. It is my opinion to get the AD book. And for the conversation that is already starting to form about LD being = to an AP, just stop. Everyone should know that the big difference in an LD and an AP, though you can achieve both through a WILD technique (which splits into two different techniques depending on what you want to do... you know when you get to SP you idiots), is that in an LD you can control EVERYTHING, and if you can't then you arent very good at it. In an AP though, you cant control anything. Your little monkeys that the very biased moonshine was talking about will just float away into nothing if you try to project that thought into the astral planes

[TJuulsgaard]

Thank you c911 - I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one opponing towards Moonshine's version of the truth. but I'm surprised to see that it took 3 threads and 3 weeks to make more people come around. I do believe that in the Beyond Dreaming-section Astral Projection have its rightfull place, so I don't agree with you on "Astral Dynamics" being irrelevant, especially when the thread is being posted in BD.

[C911]

I meant it is irrelevant to the websites purpose. My own understanding is that the only reason they have this board is so that when people post or talk about it in the other boards they have a place to move it to. Sad though, i really do like this board.