Anaesthetics and Awareness

[Placebo]

I heard something really interesting on discovery recently They were talking about anaesthetics and mistakes that are made They also mentioned in passing, that a person under full anaesthetic (successfully) and completely unconscious, can be taught eg. a new word. Upon waking, they remember the word, but nothing about being taught it Interesting, methinks.... we don't know nearly as much about awareness as we would like to think...

[Priddo]

Well that sounds like people who learn by playing things while they sleep. I think our brain can still do things while we have no clue so tto speak. I mean don't we have 90% we don't exactly use?

[Placebo]

Originally posted by Priddo Well that sounds like people who learn by playing things while they sleep. I think our brain can still do things while we have no clue so tto speak. I mean don't we have 90% we don't exactly use? Please don't start that 10% bullsh*t again If you want to read up on it without starting a war, I suggest the search feature and lots of reading No hard feelings meant - I just mean that we have way too many 10% brain threads already...

[Kaniaz]

Yeah, there's a topic all about it a little further down in this forum. If you can't be bothered to read it, then a shortened version of it is "You use all of your brain, but not all of it at the same time."

[wheelie309]

I had a really strange experience while being under a full anaesthetic when I was about 7 years old or so. I was having a surgical procedure performed on me and after they had knocked me out I remember seeing the doctors walking around and handing each other the instrements that were being used on me. I felt like i was seeing through my eyelids. Although I could not feel any pain or anything I could still sense when they were moving my body. It wasnt super vivid or anything like actually watching it. Things were somewhat blured, but I could hear them clearly and understand what they were saying. Just thought I would share that odd experience with the group

[nina]

Hmm, that's happened to me before, but I was under something called "twilight anaesthesia(sp?)...anyway I woke up in the middle of my procedure but I was so out of it I didn't care, and they were like...just go back to bed now and I did haha. Also...I was talking to LucidApple about the state I was experiencing before LDing and wake...this sort of trance-like state where I thought I was actually having OBEs but really they weren't. I could lay there and actually sit up, and walk around, and I felt like I had left my body, but I hadn't, and I'd feel the vibrations and hear the ringing/humming in my ears....very strange. Anyway, he said that this state is similar to being under hypnosis, and that if someone were there telling me things (or trying to hypnotize me) while I was in this state it would probably work! I want to test this out with someone to see if it is true or not...so I completely believe that you can learn things in your sleep/be hypnotized while you are under anaesthesia.

[Anna_Mae]

Awareness during surgery is one of my greatest fears. (I know someone that this happened to, he was aware of the pain but was paralyzed) The documentary pionted out that +/- 40 000 cases are reported in america a year alone. There is so much we do not know. The anaethetist on the show said that the levels between no awareness and stopping the persons heart is very close. I think we are not aware of the risks involved. I would definitely want a brain wave monitor conected to me if I was in that situation. (Hope you read that Placebo, or I will haunt you if I die ) [EDIT] To people who are normally against hypnosis due to opening yourself up to 'bad' things wouldn't anathesia technically be just as scary? What do u think?

[nina]

Maybe there is a thin line between awareness and stopping your heart...but the "awareness" that I have spoken of, and that other people have spoken of is very very blurry. I actually remember waking up during my procedure (though I felt no pain) and I could see and hear the doctors drilling away at bone and everything...but I was so fuzzy and out of it, I just didn't care, and went back to sleep. So I'm not sure exactly what you are talking about when you say 40,000 plus cases of what? People waking up during surgical procedures? Isn't this normal?

[Anna_Mae]

No I am refering to people actually being paralyzed, and can feel everything. My friends dad was technically awake he just had no control of his body. He couldn't tell the doc, He just had to take it. {EDIT} There are a number of drugs they give you. drugs for pain, drugs for memory , drugs to make u sleep and drugs to paralyze u... Its a giant cocktail. Sometimes the mixture is not right for u.

[nina]

Not only is that really creepy and bizarre, and I've never heard of that (I'm interested though do you have any sources other than your friend's dad)...but it also doesn't really make any sense. If the person is paralyzed then how could they feel the pain? I don't see how it is possible for someone to be completely paralyzed, meaning they can't move or feel their body...and yet still experience this pain. Maybe it's something else that is manifested due to fear, or some type of strange dream as a result of fear and the anaesthesia...b/c I've often had lucid dreams that I was in excrutiating pain when in reality I awoke and was just fine. Maybe he had a dream that he was feeling this pain? I've gone through dreams with a whole chunk of my head missing, and my teeth falling out, or one eye poked out...but I just went along with it b/c I was just excited to be lucid. Strange. huh....

[Placebo]

Well theres two things we're talking about here... 1) When the medication is incorrect (apparently this is basically an art form, its so imprecise). This results in full consciousness, but paralysis. This is the worst nightmare scenario where you can feel everything *and* 2) When people are able to learn, or even experience, the world around them - although they are completely unconscious. From anaesthetic for example (2) is the one I was referring to, but (1) is quite freaky too The documentary was mostly on (1) [EDIT] Daaamn nina, you post fast Originally posted by lucidnina+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lucidnina)</div> do you have any sources other than your friend's dad[/b] There's lots of examples of it - like anna_mae mentioned - there's 40,000 cases in USA alone. The documentary had a few interviews with people who had the experience One woman was having her eye taken out Another was having a hysterectemy <!--QuoteBegin-lucidnina I don't see how it is possible for someone to be completely paralyzed, meaning they can't move or feel their body...and yet still experience this pain Paralysis doesn't necessarily mean you don't feel anything... simply that your motor control is gone Maybe he had a dream that he was feeling this pain?[/b] Most of these people in the interviews can describe exactly what happened in the surgery - eg music that was playing, and events that occurred.

[nina]

Originally posted by Placebo Well theres two things we're talking about here... 1) When the medication is incorrect (apparently this is basically an art form, its so imprecise). This results in full consciousness, but paralysis. This is the worst nightmare scenario where you can feel everything Dear God, I have never heard of such a thing. Now I have something ELSE to be freaked out about. (I'm so impressionable) I'll just try to forget I read that...heh.

[Placebo]

Geeez .. please stop posting and read my previous edited post Damn you're active...

[wheelie309]

yeah thats nutz. I saw a twilight zone episode where this guy was concious but wasnt showing any sign of life so they thought he was dead. then they went to do an autopsy and started to open his skull up and he could feel everything. you could hear him in his own mind screaming. that gave me chills for the longest time. ewwwlkjs;ldhs;lja;skjsa;ds ;dlkj sa;f AAAAHHHH!!!!!! nasty

[nina]

Haha, that's right...I am ACTIVE...seriously though. Too graphic for me. *nina rolls up into fetal position and rocks back and forth*

[Placebo]

Originally posted by lucidnina Haha, that's right...I am ACTIVE...seriously though. Too graphic for me. *nina rolls up into fetal position and rocks back and forth* If it bothers you, you'll be glad to know there is hope They have a type of brainwave monitor (like EEG) that has been developed purely to ensure that your brain is safely 'quiet' during the surgery. Most hospitals already have them, but don't use them unless you specifically ask for it So just ask for it

[Negaigoto]

i'd like to add to this 2 things... 1) my mom has become conscious during a surgery before, and was unable to just go back to sleep like the doctors told her to. she felt vague impressions of pain, but not really. she is also a medical profession though, and apparently advised them a bit DURING the surgery, and correctly, which i get a kick out of. 2) speaking from person expereince as well as that of friends, you can see before u go down, and dream some WEIRD SHIT. o.O

[nina]

Originally posted by Placebo+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Placebo)</div> <!--QuoteBegin-lucidnina Haha, that's right...I am ACTIVE...seriously though. Too graphic for me. *nina rolls up into fetal position and rocks back and forth* If it bothers you, you'll be glad to know there is hope They have a type of brainwave monitor (like EEG) that has been developed purely to ensure that your brain is safely 'quiet' during the surgery. Most hospitals already have them, but don't use them unless you specifically ask for it So just ask for it [/b] Hmm...thats' good to know...but what if for some reason, you are unable to speak when they bring you into the hospital and cannot ask for it!! Oh god, I feel a nightmare coming on.

[Placebo]

Originally posted by lucidnina+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lucidnina)</div> Originally posted by Placebo@ <!--QuoteBegin-lucidnina Haha, that's right...I am ACTIVE...seriously though. Too graphic for me. *nina rolls up into fetal position and rocks back and forth* If it bothers you, you'll be glad to know there is hope They have a type of brainwave monitor (like EEG) that has been developed purely to ensure that your brain is safely 'quiet' during the surgery. Most hospitals already have them, but don't use them unless you specifically ask for it So just ask for it Hmm...thats' good to know...but what if for some reason, you are unable to speak when they bring you into the hospital and cannot ask for it!! Oh god, I feel a nightmare coming on. [/b] Lol - hands nina a brown paper bag If it *really* bothers you, just do what Jehovah's Witnesses do about the 'no blood' thing - Make up a signed card that states that you insist on it. Put it in your bag [EDIT] Try make it look legal, put the date on it (and update it every year or so), put witness signatures on it... you can really go the whole hog to make sure they take it seriously. And they *always* check your wallet/bag first to check for identity and information. Make sure your family knows about it too