Thread: What time to Astral Project?

Originally Posted by deXtrous

I think he must've done his research from other peoples' experiences, who have no reason to be making anything up, and built up his own 'theory' as to the difference between the two, and as I said and provided with a link he wasn't the only one claiming the same thing. The post I linked to on the bodybuilding forum came from a guy who has been APing at will for literally dozens of years.

It is not the problem that he APing for dozens of years. The problem is when one says that WILDs and APs are two different phenomena while they are in fact one. Why they are one phenomena? Because if methods are the same, properties of WILDs and APs are also the same (to be precise APs are subset of WILDs basing on descriptions), so what we have different is that WILDs are "just dreams" in one case, and APs are "astral plane" in another - but this just an interpretation. I can say that actually it is "quantum plane" or "quantal", Castaneda said it is just one state of the millions positions which point of assembly can have, in Russia one guy call this "The Phase" and so on.

astral projectors believe dreams take place in the astral. So a dream is a type of OBE to begin with. your dream is like a private world in the astral, where you are safe from everyone else. or rather, where everyone else is safe from you. outside of your little dream bubble, is the rest of the astral world.

Look. Here I go:

quantum projectors believe dreams take place in the quantal. So a QP is a type of OBE to begin with. your dream is like a private world in the quantal, where you are safe from everyone else. or rather, where everyone else is safe from you. outside of your little dream bubble, is the rest of the quantal (minus astral which is somewhere else)
What you cited is just a claim, not a list of properties which one can use to verify that APs are different from WILDs whatever his beliefs are.

I think he was pointing out that AP's and Lucid Dreams both occur on the Astral Plane, just in an AP you are aware of this plane and you can explore the boundaries of the astral plane accordingly, but in a LD you can only go so far as where your mind will take you, in your own little bubble, because that is what you believe. I think everything concerning the spiritual side of life first requires you to believe in it before anything can actually be achieved, which is why I want to believe Astral Projection and Lucid Dreaming as two different types of OBE's so I can at least give myself the opportunity to experience them subjectively.

Look. Now just tell me how I know did I APed or WILDed? Assume I have no clear intent or requested a 50-50 chance. So I am somewhere. How do I know where I am? There are a lot of advices how to distinguish reality from dream, but if there any for AP?

Originally Posted by [user-name]

Im also open to the idea that they are both happening on the astral plane, but why is it that your dreams are usually yours alone and even if you and someone else dream of a similar location/event you wont know about each others dreams? It is often said that it is possible for people to meet up in the planes while projecting.

Well, the nature of this phenomenon is not really understood. My disliking to "Astral model" is mostly to the fact that it is obsolete, flawed, and the biggest problem is that most of people who believe in AP claim at the same time that WILDs exist too and they are different, but can not distinguish one from another. At least, they should say that LaBerge is mistaken, and actually all LDs are in astral plane.