Astral Projections ARE REAL (explanation inside)

[Myriad902]

I know some of you that read this forum say "Oh, astral projections, what a load of BS" ... wrong. There is a scientific explanation for it. Nothing wrong with being a material realist, I can understand your suspicion. I posted the message below in another message in this sub-forum. . . . . I don't mean to sound like a pretentious prick... but you guys have it all wrong. There are 6 senses, not 5, sight, smell, taste, hearing, touch, and PROPRIOCEPTION. Proprioception is your ability to know where parts of your body are without looking at it or touching it; basically sensing it with any of the other 5 senses. Try it right now. Hold your arm out, you know it's out in front of you, not because you're sensing it with your other 5 senses, but because of proprioception, you just KNOW it is there. Think about your foot right now, you "feel" it, don't you? Well, unless it's been itching or sore or something, you reading that message should have triggered a message to be sent and received confirming the attachment of your foot. It is "sensed" by your mind. I've heard of 3 documented cases of people who permanently screwed up their proprioceptive senses somehow. The effect? You'll dig this... for the rest of their life, they believed they were outside their body in a spirit-like form. Even if their eyes moved over their arms, and they saw it attached to their body and everything, their proprioceptive senses said NO. They lived their life as an apparition outside their body, but of course they really weren't, they just felt like that. By the way, these can happen anytime during your life. Partially or wholly, you might feel like you're outside your body, or a toe, or a leg is missing. Kinda freaky experience when you lose your ability to sense limbs temporarily. Go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception

[wasup]

How does this prove astral projections as real...?

[Suspiro]

So....you mean they dont go outside there bodies...is that what your saying?

[Myriad902]

ataraxis: It proves astral projections are real because the sensation of being outside your body is caused by your proprioceptive awareness doing things it shouldn't be doing, like telling yourself you're not in your body! Suspiro: Yes... but, you definitely feel like you are, but if someone was looking at someone having an astral projection, they look totally normal.

[wasup]

Originally posted by Myriad902 ataraxis: It proves astral projections are real because the sensation of being outside your body is caused by your proprioceptive awareness doing things it shouldn't be doing, like telling yourself you're not in your body! An ordinary dream can produce the same sensation...

[Ptalkopher]

Doesn't this just say that they could be real? I'm at a loss to what you're considering proof here.

[RyanParis]

Everyone knows astral projection is real, because dreams take place outside the body: http://brain.web-us.com/lucid/luciddreamin...20Lucid%20Dream? http://brain.web-us.com/lucid/luciddreamingFAQ.htm The difference is simply lucid dreaming happens in a dream, wheres astral travel happens outside a dream (for instance, walking around your house with your astral body). Also, after spending a lot of time astral traveling, the astral usually comes back to the physical body with a sensation it just fell a great distance, and wakes us up with a jolt. Whoever says astral projection isn't real has never consciously done it.

[Muezza]

That sheds quite a bit of light on something that happens to me. Every now and then, I'm not really sure who I am nor am I sure that I'm looking through my own eyes. It almost feels like I'm watching something on television or at the movies. Generally, within moments, a shockwave of fear overcomes me and I snap back into reality--albeit a little confused.

[RyanParis]

Originally posted by Muezza That sheds quite a bit of light on something that happens to me. Every now and then, I'm not really sure who I am nor am I sure that I'm looking through my own eyes. It almost feels like I'm watching something on television or at the movies. Generally, within moments, a shockwave of fear overcomes me and I snap back into reality--albeit a little confused. An astral projection is very much like this picture: You can say the guy sleeping in bed is his physical body, whereas the dream body is the astral body.

[wasup]

Originally posted by RyanParis Everyone knows astral projection is real, because dreams take place outside the body: http://brain.web-us.com/lucid/luciddreamin...20Lucid%20Dream? http://brain.web-us.com/lucid/luciddreamingFAQ.htm The difference is simply lucid dreaming happens in a dream, wheres astral travel happens outside a dream (for instance, walking around your house with your astral body). Also, after spending a lot of time astral traveling, the astral usually comes back to the physical body with a sensation it just fell a great distance, and wakes us up with a jolt. Whoever says astral projection isn't real has never consciously done it. Speak for yourself. Dreams take place WITHIN THE MIND... scientific fact. Dreams take place within your thoughts... "everyone" knows that. When you say "whoever says astral projection isn't real has never conciously done it", well of course THEY are gonna think it's real. Most people will do something like that and have a really sweet lucid dream, and then think it's an astral projection. If I had something similar to your experience, I'd know it was just a good lucid dream.

[Suspiro]

I agree...the astral planes are not some special realm outside your body...its like a dream, it happens all in the mind.

[RyanParis]

Originally posted by ataraxis Speak for yourself. Dreams take place WITHIN THE MIND... scientific fact. Dreams take place within your thoughts... \"everyone\" knows that. When you say \"whoever says astral projection isn't real has never conciously done it\", well of course THEY are gonna think it's real. Most people will do something like that and have a really sweet lucid dream, and then think it's an astral projection. If I had something similar to your experience, I'd know it was just a good lucid dream. Astral travel includes lucid dreaming. When you astral travel, you're aware that you're psychically asleep in bed, but you are also wide-awake (in your house, for example) and walking around on the ground with your astral body. An example is this guys' experience: http://www.astralweb.org/phps/exp_dave.php Just from that guys' experience alone, you can tell astral travel is very different from normal lucid dreaming. The DIFFERENCE is lucid dreaming happens in a dream, and astral travel happens OUTSIDE of the dream... alowing you to walk around your house, outside, ect, with your astral body. Not that difficult to understand. I know astral travel doesn't sound good to you personally, but this stuff really happens to people.

[Keleiter]

Yes..astral projection is real..I have done it. Here are a couple links to esays explaining how lucid dreams and astral projections are related.. http://www.astralvoyage.com/projection/difference.html http://www.astralvoyage.com/projection/ast...traldreams.html

[Gus]

i have one word consciousness remember perception creates reality those people who percieve reality from outside their bodies have done something i like to call expanding their minds they really are outside their bodies, percieving it with their consciousness and not their mind dreams may take place in the mind, but it is merely using the mind as a really good video card/ram/harddrive with which consciousness creates its own reality

[Serkat]

You guys have to be fucking kidding. Oh yeah, there's a bunch of guys writing down their experiences for everyone to read. Sure, that's definite proof for how real it is. You guys need to switch on you brains before you type random crap in here. They're travelling the worls with their consciousness? Wow, I didn't know you solved one of the last unsolved mysteries of human life and didn't tell anyone. Yeah it definately makes a lot of sense that consciousness can be seperated from the brain on the one hand but on the other hand astral travelers have a clear remembereance of their travel. Good job there. Serioulsy... there have been numerous expriments around the topic of astral projection and NONE of them showed that astral projection has anything to do with real life. On the contrary, it has been shown that NDEs and OBEs can be 1) seen in brain activity and 2) started by stimulating certain regions on the brains. If OBEs were real, wouldn't you think that it would be well known since thousands of years? It would imply that people could just walk around the earth and spy on their enemies and so on. OBEs are dreams, get over it. And about your stupid definition of the difference between OBE and lucid dream. That actually is NO difference at all. How can you make such a hyprocritical statement? In a lucid dreams I can just as well walk around the house or around the town. The level of realism that the dream provides is determined by various factors. Obviously if you step directly out of your body while you're in conscious SP your consciousness and logical abilities are at a high level, and this combined with the dream halluscinations give a much more realistic impression than your average dream.

[RyanParis]

Originally posted by Korittke+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Korittke)</div> You guys have to be fucking kidding. Oh yeah, there's a bunch of guys writing down their experiences for everyone to read. Sure, that's definite proof for how real it is. You guys need to switch on you brains before you type random crap in here. [/b] You know it's real, you just don't want to believe it. Originally posted by Korittke+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Korittke)</div> Wow, I didn't know you solved one of the last unsolved mysteries of human life and didn't tell anyone. Yeah it definately makes a lot of sense that consciousness can be seperated from the brain have a clear remembereance of their travel. Good job there. [/b] I agree. Originally posted by Korittke If OBEs were real, wouldn't you think that it would be well known since thousands of years? It would imply that people could just walk around the earth and spy on their enemies and so on. I've heard the U.S. army has actually tried astral projection and remote viewing to spy on their enemies. Originally posted by Korittke OBEs are dreams, get over it. OBE's includes lucid dreaming and really happens to people. Get over it. <!--QuoteBegin-Korittke@ And about your stupid definition of the difference between OBE and lucid dream. That actually is NO difference at all. How can you make such a hyprocritical statement? There's a difference. I've said it before and I need hardly repeat again. <!--QuoteBegin-Korittke In a lucid dreams I can just as well walk around the house or around the town. The level of realism that the dream provides is determined by various factors. Obviously if you step directly out of your body while you're in conscious SP your consciousness and logical abilities are at a high level, and this combined with the dream halluscinations give a much more realistic impression than your average dream. Astral travel includes lucid dreaming. It's real, get over it.

[Serkat]

"You know it's real, you just don't want to believe it. " You don't seem to know that there's a difference between believing and knowing. If I it's real I wouldn't have to believe. Good job on analysing my psyche. "I've heard the U.S. army has actually tried astral projection and remote viewing to spy on their enemies. " And found that it didnt work. Besides that's just an urban myth used by people who have no real arguments at hand. "There's a difference. I've said it before and I need hardly repeat again. " It's funny how you didn't reply to my argument against that difference and instead just repeated what you said previously. If you don't want to look like a 13-year old girl talking jibberish in science class, reply to arguments with arguments, instead of repeating how you feel and what you believe. - Believing A does NOT make A true. - Trying A does NOT make A possible. - Remembering A implies that the information is 1) in the brain and 2) somehow got into there. Keep that in mind when you write your reply.

[RyanParis]

Originally posted by Korittke \"You know it's real, you just don't want to believe it. \" You don't seem to know that there's a difference between believing and knowing. If I it's real I wouldn't have to believe. Good job on analysing my psyche. I know it's real because I've done it before. I've done everything that I've read on AP websites by accident. Astral travel happens during dreams. Originally posted by Korittke+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Korittke)</div> And found that it didnt work. [/b] Because they don't know how to do it. Originally posted by Korittke+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Korittke)</div> It's funny how you didn't reply to my argument against that difference and instead just repeated what you said previously. [/b] I've already said lucid dreaming happens in the dream, whereas astral travel takes place outside the dream. <!--QuoteBegin-Korittke@ If you don't want to look like a 13-year old girl talking jibberish in science class, reply to arguments with arguments, instead of repeating how you feel and what you believe. I know what really happened to me before. That's why I know it's real. You know it's real too, you just don't like the fact your white-coat doctor doesn't tell you it's possible. <!--QuoteBegin-Korittke Keep that in mind when you write your reply. Astral travel and prove it to yourself.

[Serkat]

I did astral travel. And I'm quitting this debate because you don't reply to arguments and instead just quote the passages that work as a mere introduction to the arguments, almost as if the arguments I post don't exist. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Buy a mirror.

[RyanParis]

Originally posted by Korittke I did astral travel. Than what the hell are you complaning about? You say we must be kidding when talking about AP, than you say you astral travel. An obvious contradiction on the face of it.

[A Lost Soul]

Guys, I'm requesting that we keep it nice in here. If you'd like to get into a deeper debate on this subject, there is a forum called Religion and Spirituality that is relatively un-modded.

[bradybaker]

I agree with the idea that the "sensation" that some may label an "astral projection" exists. However, which scenario is more likely? A) You actually somehow leave your physical body. B) It's simply a sensation and series of hallucinations created by your brain in a dream state. I don't know about all you guys, but I'll take my chances with B

[wasup]

Hey, buddy, ryanparis, you are terribly ignorant by saying "I know its real because I did it." All of the "symptoms" of lucid dreaming are apparent in ordinary LUCID dreams as well. BradyBaker hits the nail on the head with this one, it is hypnagognic images that lead you to believe you are somehow leaving your body. Actually, the experience you claim how you "leave" your body and "enter" the astral plane is a very apparent part of entering your dream thruogh the WILD technique. The dream comes to you and you have a "new body" in it. I know what really happened to me before. That's why I know it's real. You know it's real too, you just don't like the fact your white-coat doctor doesn't tell you it's possible. [/b] You should be a psychologist I believe. You are really great at analyzing people! Accept the fact that we are not "scared" of it and we don't secretly "know" its real. Speaking of white-coat doctors... have you been skipping on your meds? But in all honesty guys, all of the evidence (a term which I use loosely) does not prove astral projections as real. First of all, you have craploads of anecdotes. They prove you had a very realistic lucid dream set in your bedroom accompanied by hypnagognic imagery while going to sleep and conciosuly entering your dream. Then you use your intuition to support your argument (I swear I know what I did and you guys are just scared of it). Then you guys have astral projection websites telling how dreams "exist outside the body" and the such. Well sorry, dreams exist inside the mind. Nothing you have said is a valid supporter of astral projection.

[Keleiter]

Originally posted by Korittke You guys have to be fucking kidding. Oh yeah, there's a bunch of guys writing down their experiences for everyone to read. Sure, that's definite proof for how real it is. You guys need to switch on you brains before you type random crap in here. They're travelling the worls with their consciousness? Wow, I didn't know you solved one of the last unsolved mysteries of human life and didn't tell anyone. Yeah it definately makes a lot of sense that consciousness can be seperated from the brain on the one hand but on the other hand astral travelers have a clear remembereance of their travel. Good job there. Serioulsy... there have been numerous expriments around the topic of astral projection and NONE of them showed that astral projection has anything to do with real life. On the contrary, it has been shown that NDEs and OBEs can be 1) seen in brain activity and 2) started by stimulating certain regions on the brains. If OBEs were real, wouldn't you think that it would be well known since thousands of years? It would imply that people could just walk around the earth and spy on their enemies and so on. OBEs are dreams, get over it. And about your stupid definition of the difference between OBE and lucid dream. That actually is NO difference at all. How can you make such a hyprocritical statement? In a lucid dreams I can just as well walk around the house or around the town. The level of realism that the dream provides is determined by various factors. Obviously if you step directly out of your body while you're in conscious SP your consciousness and logical abilities are at a high level, and this combined with the dream halluscinations give a much more realistic impression than your average dream. You have the right to your opinion.. and I have my right to mine. It's no reason to insult someone. Swearing and talking like that just makes you sound immature.

[Myriad902]

You guys needa chill out... Anyway, my opinion is that when you go into Astral Projection, you can only walk around in places where you know what the environment looks like, otherwise it's nothing but pure imagination.