Thread: What does the blind man see?

The other night while I was thinking about everything i've read on astral projection, a question came to my mind.

Of course this question goes out to those of you who believe in this sort of thing.

If a blind man were to astral project, what would he see?

Originally Posted by xSuper_Sadistx

The other night while I was thinking about everything i've read on astral projection, a question came to my mind.

Of course this question goes out to those of you who believe in this sort of thing.

If a blind man were to astral project, what would he see?

The question seemed worthy of at least a few minutes of online research, so I checked. There were numerous sources who mentioned in passing that those born blind can see during astral projection, though no particular cases were given.

There was more in-depth information for cases of near death experiencers, born blind but who saw during their experience, because NDE researchers have documented them.

If we suppose that NDEs and APs are real, and forget about debates for a while, it would seem pretty likely that the two experiences are probably similar in both being caused by one's soul having left the body. If they can see during NDEs, then why not during APs?

^ Are you suggesting he'd see a black cat in a coal cellar at midnight?

Originally Posted by Ghost3DE

I doubt that, if he was born blind he wont even see black. He would see nothing.

There would be no difference in the visual perception of a blind man or you when out of the body.


LucidFlanders, are you sure they don't see black, how is it possible to see nothing ? I haven't really solved that question, maybe someone know what a blind man "sees". ?

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

Maybe someone know what a blind man "sees". ?

A blind man sees nothing, But hears everything.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

LucidFlanders, are you sure they don't see black, how is it possible to see nothing ? I haven't really solved that question, maybe someone know what a blind man "sees". ?

The best way to imagine it IMO is to think about what you are seeing out of your fingertips right now. It's certainly not black. It's nothing. HTHs

Originally Posted by xSuper_Sadistx

The other night while I was thinking about everything i've read on astral projection, a question came to my mind.

Of course this question goes out to those of you who believe in this sort of thing.

If a blind man were to astral project, what would he see?

YEs he would see in an astral projection. The reason for this is, blindness is caused when the nerve bundles that send signals to the brain in the eye are somehow disrupted, this causes the brain not to get signals from the eye. If the brain doesnt get signals from the eye it cant create an image of what the eye is seeing, therefore the person sees nothing. The reason why a blind person in astral projection can see is that astral projection is your spirit body. The blindness is on a physical plane and affects your physical body. Since your astral body doesnt have eyes and a brain like your physical body does it would be impossible for your "Physical" blindness to affect your astral body. Hope that helped!

Wow! It's amazing how your astral body can see without eyes or a brain! It's also amazing how you know all this, Atras.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought to tell blind people about astral projection? Just think, people who have been blind since birth would be able to find out what it is like to be able to see. One would presume that there would already be people who have been blind since birth who are astrally projecting on a regular basis. Hmmm, I've never read in any newspaper or seen any documentaries about blind people who are doing this. I wonder why that is??

There is actually some research done on the subject of NDE and blind people being able to see there. A certain Dr. Ken Ring and Sharon Cooper wrote a book about their results called "Mindsight". I used to browse a website that seems no longer online but I found it in cache in Google anyway, check this:

http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:...=nl&lr=lang_en

Im pretty sure if you google on this book and their authors, you might find more. Im not saying here this is die-hard evidence but for sure it is quite interesting.

I find this whole thread incredibly insensitive to the disabled.

There is currently millions being invested in technologys, such as retinal implants, to help the blind gain some kind of basic vision. This work is incredibly complex and not without its dangers. Now, if astral travel were able to provide the blind with sight, would there not be hundreds of scientists, and millions of pounds from medical labs being invested into harnessing this power?

Rather than one book, by two unknowns?
And if thier evidence is so compelling, why are they still such unknowns?

Also, if were're going to be talking senses here, there are a lot of senses that fully able human adults don't have access to, such as the ability to see/hear sonar. Other mamals (such as bats) can do this, so why is it that in the astral plane, humans don't suddenly have the ability to sense sonar?
If you think about it, this is much the same as saing a blind person would be able to see. Why is it that the astral body, seems to have the same basic biological limitations as the physical body?

Not wanting to be funny or anything, but if you found yourself chronically blind, something that would effect every element of your life, for the rest of your life.. and there was something, ANYTHING, that gave you a slim hope of being able to see... Don't you think you'd be trying it?
So where are the news stories of the hundreds if not thousands of blind people discovering astral vision?

There are none. There is one book, by unknowns.... oh and it's SELF PUBLISHED (meaning no publisher would take it on, so they went to a website that prints books on demand when someone makes an order.) So these great scientists couldn't even find a publisher to print thier work!

This thread insults the intelligence of the blind. Do you not think they'd have thought of this themselves?

Tell you what, go talk about this with the next blind person you meet "oh why arn't you seeing astrally?" and see how long it takes for them to tell you to go &$^&$ yourself!!

I'm sure the original poster didn't mean to offend, but this subject is pushing the limits here.

Originally Posted by DreamQueen

Wow! It's amazing how your astral body can see without eyes or a brain! It's also amazing how you know all this, Atras.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought to tell blind people about astral projection? Just think, people who have been blind since birth would be able to find out what it is like to be able to see. One would presume that there would already be people who have been blind since birth who are astrally projecting on a regular basis. Hmmm, I've never read in any newspaper or seen any documentaries about blind people who are doing this. I wonder why that is??

wow.. what you just said is so naive. Im assuming your being sarcastic. First of all dream queen, i really dont know that much about this. Im just using common sense and tying the pieces together, You dont need to inverview a blind man to see if he can see in astral projection or not. I researched how the eye sees and how it is affected when someone is blind. I also researched astral projection. Its obvious that if a blind person cant see because of disruptions in his nerves (the optic nerves are cut, severed, burned, ect..) then he cant see. Astral body is a spiritual body, we all know that. So if the reason he is blind is because of his optic nerves failing to transmit a signal to the brain, why wouldnt he be able to see in his astral body. HIs astral body doesnt have eyes that are connected to the brain by optic nerves, its a spirirtual body, therefore using common sense, a blind man can see in his astral body. ITs not that hard to figure out. And i havent heard of a blind man trying to astral project either, but if he did, yes he would be able to see while he is in his astral body. What part of this dont you get.

Originally Posted by Atras

wow.. what you just said is so naive. Im assuming your being sarcastic. First of all dream queen, i really dont know that much about this. Im just using common sense and tying the pieces together, You dont need to inverview a blind man to see if he can see in astral projection or not. I researched how the eye sees and how it is affected when someone is blind. I also researched astral projection. Its obvious that if a blind person cant see because of disruptions in his nerves (the optic nerves are cut, severed, burned, ect..) then he cant see. Astral body is a spiritual body, we all know that. So if the reason he is blind is because of his optic nerves failing to transmit a signal to the brain, why wouldnt he be able to see in his astral body. HIs astral body doesnt have eyes that are connected to the brain by optic nerves, its a spirirtual body, therefore using common sense, a blind man can see in his astral body. ITs not that hard to figure out. And i havent heard of a blind man trying to astral project either, but if he did, yes he would be able to see while he is in his astral body. What part of this dont you get.

I think the part she dosn't get is: The part where you took science, and then mixed it up with a whole lot of new age nonsense.

The astral body is completely and utterly unproven. There is ZERO evidence.

Come to think of it, why dont blind people see through thier third eye whilst they are at it?

Or why dont they pray for jesus to heal them? we all know jesus can heal people.

Or maybe... they could pray to the sun god Ra? and that would heal them?

Or maybe they could use evil telekenisis to make everyone else blind, and even the playingfield?

Any of these above examples are just as silly as what you are saying.


Trying to explain something in nonsensical terms and then calling someone naive... is horribly ironic.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

I think the part she dosn't get is: The part where you took science, and then mixed it up with a whole lot of new age nonsense.

The astral body is completely and utterly unproven. There is ZERO evidence.

Come to think of it, why dont blind people see through thier third eye whilst they are at it?

Or why dont they pray for jesus to heal them? we all know jesus can heal people.

Or maybe... they could pray to the sun god Ra? and that would heal them?

Or maybe they could use evil telekenisis to make everyone else blind, and even the playingfield?

Any of these above examples are just as silly as what you are saying.


Trying to explain something in nonsensical terms and then calling someone naive... is horribly ironic.

ok, im not saying that astral projection is even real. I personally dont think it is, im just saying that if it was real, it would be possible for a blind man to see in it

Originally Posted by Atras

wow.. what you just said is so naive. Im assuming your being sarcastic. First of all dream queen, i really dont know that much about this. Im just using common sense and tying the pieces together,..

I feel the same way man. It's useless trying to spread any kind of knowldge to these close-minded people, even if we are in beyond dreaming..i dont even know why they came in here if they don't believe this stuff. I'm not saying I completely believe all this stuff, but i read everything with an open-mind and try and put the pieces together myself.

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

I feel the same way man. It's useless trying to spread any kind of knowldge to these close-minded people, even if we are in beyond dreaming..i dont even know why they came in here if they don't believe this stuff. I'm not saying I completely believe all this stuff, but i read everything with an open-mind and try and put the pieces together myself.

like i said, im not taking any sides if its real or not, i just want to get the facts and find the arguments for it. And everyone forgot what the original question was. Its if someone in astral projection thats blind can see. Not if it is real or not. I answered that yes they can see so if someones gonna argue about it, they should argue assuming that astral projection is real, even if it isnt

Originally Posted by HaRd_WiReD

I feel the same way man. It's useless trying to spread any kind of knowldge to these close-minded people, even if we are in beyond dreaming..i dont even know why they came in here if they don't believe this stuff. I'm not saying I completely believe all this stuff, but i read everything with an open-mind and try and put the pieces together myself.

An open minded is a good thing. My signature explains my views on that.

Problem is, you dont want your mind so open that your brain falls out. Which it appears to be the case with a lot of people.

We cant agree with everything ALL the time... truth dosn't work that way.
Some things will just be wrong.
It is not open minded to pretend that things that are wrong COULD be true, if we know they are just blatantly wrong.

So, you may call me closed minded... but i think what you mistake is closed minded is actually being open minded but also with the ability to stand up to nonsense....

If you go to pick apples, you do not come away with leaves.
You HAVE to be able to know what is worth researching, and what is nonsense.

A true open mind, knows when to accept that a subject is no longer valuable, and will move on to somethign more valuable.

If you reseach astral travel, and you learn enough to realise that it is nonsense and contradictory... you cannot then say "well it could be true" because you have learnt it isnt. It would be a lie.

Originally Posted by Atras

YEs he would see in an astral projection. The reason for this is, blindness is caused when the nerve bundles that send signals to the brain in the eye are somehow disrupted, this causes the brain not to get signals from the eye. If the brain doesnt get signals from the eye it cant create an image of what the eye is seeing, therefore the person sees nothing. The reason why a blind person in astral projection can see is that astral projection is your spirit body. The blindness is on a physical plane and affects your physical body. Since your astral body doesnt have eyes and a brain like your physical body does it would be impossible for your "Physical" blindness to affect your astral body. Hope that helped!

So why exactly do we have a physical brain and physical eyes then?
Seems pointless to have evolved eyes, if we have perfectly working astral eyes already.
The whole idea is full of holes.

Originally Posted by DreamQueen

Wow! It's amazing how your astral body can see without eyes or a brain! It's also amazing how you know all this, Atras.

I wonder if anyone has ever thought to tell blind people about astral projection? Just think, people who have been blind since birth would be able to find out what it is like to be able to see. One would presume that there would already be people who have been blind since birth who are astrally projecting on a regular basis. Hmmm, I've never read in any newspaper or seen any documentaries about blind people who are doing this. I wonder why that is??

Yes, yes and yes.

To your last question (I know you love statisitcs)

0.6% of the worlds population are blind.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/.../2003/pr73/en/
http://www99.wolframalpha.com/input/...ion+people*100

"The majority of blindness – an estimated 90 per cent - occurs in developing countrie" That means 0.06% of the industrialized population are blind.

17 % of all blind people are born that way, 10 % in industrialized countries
http://www.who.int/bulletin/archives/79(3)227.pdf

We are now at 0.006% of the industrialzed population who were born blind.

Have been people are able to Astral Project on regular basis?

My guess is 1 to 10,000 are able to Astral project on regular basis.

This give 6.891x10^-7 born blind people in industrialized are able to Astral Project on regular basis. That is 0.000006891 % of the population

That gives us 21.07 people only in USA.

http://www51.wolframalpha.com/input/...USA+population

I said 1 to 10,000 are able to Astral Project on regular basis, but even 1 astral projection (NDE and OOBE included) is enough to show whether a blind person can see or not.

I estimate that there are 100 times more people that have experienced an AP,NDE or OBE once or more than on regular basis.

So around 21.07*100 = 2107 blind people in the whole USA should have seen in that out of body experience.

Such a rare thing would the scientific community never even touch to. There probably is some "newspaper" with an article about this, but don't expect it to be mainstream, and yes there have been made documentaries about NDE and such, and I have myself seen and interview and description of a born blind woman being able to see in a NDE, she described the experience. One of documentaries was made by BBC. I bring you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9CDCZLRL9g !

Start at 2:50.. (The rest of the documentary is great btw)

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

... ... ...
And if thier evidence is so compelling, why are they still such unknowns?

Sorry, but a blind born individual who comes to another person (Not relative) and tell that he able to see, when he was out of his body, will probably get shuned. And with the near impossibility of reproducing the event again, it can be thrown into the garbadge by most scientist. It is subjectivity at the most extreme, you should know that we don't call it evidence.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

So why exactly do we have a physical brain and physical eyes then?
Seems pointless to have evolved eyes, if we have perfectly working astral eyes already.
The whole idea is full of holes.

We have a physical brain and eyes because we are living in THIS physical reality, we can't go against natural laws, and thus we are a part of it.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

Yes, yes and yes.

We have a physical brain and eyes because we are living in THIS physical reality, we can't go against natural laws, and thus we are a part of it.

So, um... astral travelling isnt going against natural laws?
Blind people seeing through astral eyes isnt going against natural laws?
Hmm, that's a new one to me.

I still think this is really offensive to the blind.


Just one point on that video, if she has NEVER seen, how would she know what, light, birds, trees and people are?
It takes months for babies to develop basic visual understanding.
Sounds to me like people she has spoken to after the event, tried to pin terms and sense to the experience.

I'm certainly not saying she is lying, but people with the best intentions can at times distort and manipulate others experiences whilst trying to be helpful.
I think a more plausable experience is that her mind was in extreme trauma, certain neurochemicals were released - perhaps DMT. Her long dormant visual cortex was activated, and she experienced random visual experiences, not based on memories, but none the less vivid (anyone who has taken DMT can understand this)... then her friends, family etc. probably tried to interpret these experiences into thier own world views... being American, it is highly likely at least some of her friends are religious, and already believe in life after death. They would be doing what they felt was the "right thing" in helping her understand her experience, but in reality woudl actually be distorting the memories and facts of the situations.

For example...
Maybe she said she saw "complex dark shapes" and her family said "oh they were probably trees outside the building"
and thus it stuck.

Just a theory, but, seems more likely.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

So, um... astral travelling isnt going against natural laws?
Blind people seeing through astral eyes isnt going against natural laws?
Hmm, that's a new one to me.

Natural laws, as in natural laws of THIS universe and reality frame.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

Just one point on that video, if she has NEVER seen, how would she know what, light, birds, trees and people are?
It takes months for babies to develop basic visual understanding.
Sounds to me like people she has spoken to after the event, tried to pin terms and sense to the experience.

You can't compare a babies brain to an adults.

She have had the sense of hearing, touch, smell and taste. She have learned to (as blind do) to identify things with those senses. When she was above her body, he recognized her wedding ring and hair, she is very familiar with them, so it would be easy to comparer the visual to the tactile mental image, the shapes and such.

If she touch a 6 sided dice as blind, examine the object carefully, she can feel the holes in the side, 1 dot on that side, 2 dots on that side etc. and then we she sees a small cubic, with black dots around she can remember the object she hold in hear hand.

She also state that she could bring forth knowledge.

She had hear hearing, as she flew she could hear the wind and such, and probably bird screech too, when she sees something small fly in the skies, she probably knows it's a bird, what else should it be?

Nevertheless she does not have to devolop any visual processing, she is not using her brain when out of body, the brains function and neural nature is not involved when you have no body.

Originally Posted by Specialis Sapientia

Such a rare thing would the scientific community never even touch to. There probably is some "newspaper" with an article about this, but don't expect it to be mainstream, and yes there have been made documentaries about NDE and such, and I have myself seen and interview and description of a born blind woman being able to see in a NDE, she described the experience. One of documentaries was made by BBC. I bring you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9CDCZLRL9g !

Start at 2:50.. (The rest of the documentary is great btw)

I watched this video. It reminds me of the book "Hello from Heaven" that I read a few years ago when someone I loved was killed in a tragic accident and I was searching for confirmation for life after death. The book is full of stories about people receiving visits from deceased friends and relatives. Unfortunately, the book didn't convince me in the slightest as there were obvious flaws in many of the stories. It seemed more likely that people just want to have a story to tell that makes them 'special' and gains them attention having experienced something really interesting.

As for the video of the blind woman... her story is mystifying. Not so much as to how she was allegedly able to see, but more how she was able to report that she saw "trees" and "birds" and "light" when she would not know what these things were and would have no way of confirming what she saw with sighted people upon awakening.

The documentary may seem convincing with all the microscopes and men in white coats but sorry, I just don't believe it.

There was a program on TV here about mediums who after being shown a photo of a murder victim would apparently then be able to lead the police to exactly where the body had been found. I remember everyone talking about this in amazement in the tea room at work. That is until I pointed out that no medium had EVER lead the police to a murder victim's body which had not yet been found. Everyone fell silent as soon as I said it. The whole program which had had them convinced that communication beyond the grave was taking place had been completely debunked just like that.

Originally Posted by spaceexplorer

So why exactly do we have a physical brain and physical eyes then?
Seems pointless to have evolved eyes, if we have perfectly working astral eyes already.
The whole idea is full of holes.

i dont know, that gets into all the religon crap and stuff. But everyone who has travelled in their astral body have been able to see in it, theirfore it would be no different for a blind man.