Mind modification

**Jaden** · 02-24-2010 04:05 AM

I am returning here after a long time away. I am preparing to undergo a series of experiments in my own mind to change how it works.

If anyone has any tips I am interested in knowing about personal experiences.

I will be attempting to enter a lucid state and communicate conscious ideas into my subconscious. The Idea is that my subconscious will be modified though my dream actions and I will be able to instruct it in ways that will better allow me to function during the day. I am going to attempt access my subconscious memory while awake following this modification.

The next experiment I am setting out to try is to increase my predictive capabilities while awake. When I dream I dream of things that happen later IRL, weather or not someone believes this is beside the point, it happens to me and I am going to try to push it further so I can get from seconds ahead to minutes ahead. So far I have not been able to change what I see, I am working on fixing that.

Other Ideas that have been suggested include re learning subconsciously stored information, like in hypno-therapy. I am also looking into attaining photographic memory capabilities through this. I will post what works and what doesn't.

Thanks in advance for all the advice and for accepting my crazy theories.

**Find** · 02-24-2010 06:45 AM

Wow. This is the sort of thing I've wanted to do for so long. I'm not a master at lucid dreaming, though. My lucid dreams aren't long enough, or strong enough for me to get the chance to attempt something like this.

If you learn to predict things then you could get rich, easily. You could play the lottery and always win, and make bets, and always win.

Photographic memory is something I would give almost anything to have. It sounds so amazing. You would never have to study, and life would be so much easier.

I am interested in hearing your results.

**Darkmatters** · 02-24-2010 07:45 AM

Interesting experiment!! (read: nice way to say crazy ideas!

)

You might want to look into meditation as well. It's specifically for working on your mind.

**Hijo de la Luna** · 02-24-2010 01:53 PM

I would recommend learning the option method to uncover & releas negative limiting beliefs. I learned it from these books by Mandy Evans Traveling Free & Emotional OptionsAnother great book that has helped me is The High Performance Mind by Anna Wise. She teaches you how to control your brain waves so that you have the ability to control what state of mind you're in.

**Jaden** · 02-24-2010 09:26 PM

Thanks for the advice. I already meditate, though I need to do more in preparation for this. I am trying to do as much learning as possible before I do this so I can do it safely. I really appreciate the help.

**Shark Rider** · 02-25-2010 04:50 AM

Hum...is there a way to get the same results but through deep meditaion instead of LD?

**Lucid_Guy.exe** · 02-25-2010 04:53 AM

Have you thought about making yourself fall asleep on command instantly, fully lucid? It would be the easiest way!

**b12** · 02-25-2010 05:31 AM

One word: Hypnosis

**Find** · 02-25-2010 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by b12

One word: Hypnosis

I watched 'The Fourth Kind', hypnosis scares me now. The aliens, like, broke peoples spines when they went through hypnosis, and they ended up paralyzed from the neck down. I couldn't sleep for days after watching that movie.

**Jaden** · 02-26-2010 12:08 AM

I don't think hypnosis is a good thing unless it is self hypnosis. Basically what I am attempting is along the lines of self hypnosis, but I am approaching my sub-conscious from another angle. I am really afraid of hypnosis because people should not be trusted.

**Jaden** · 02-26-2010 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Shark Rider

Hum...is there a way to get the same results but through deep meditaion instead of LD?

I suppose you could, but meditation like that takes years and years of practice and you need a very consistent environment to avoid disruption. It's a good idea though.

**Jaden** · 03-08-2010 10:01 PM

If anyone is still following this thread my first trials were largely unsuccessful. I was able to retain my dream memory for a longer period of time, but I was not able to reach full lucidity while having mind modification in mind. I'm trying again soon and have stepped up my efforts.

**Hijo de la Luna** · 03-08-2010 11:48 PM

Meditation like that didn't take me years.

If change the way you see things then the things you see will change

**Jaden** · 03-09-2010 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Hijo de la Luna

Meditation like that didn't take me years.

If change the way you see things then the things you see will change

Please expand on this. I don't quite get your meaning. I have been meditating, but I am trying to alter my mind in my dreams not though though control. I appreciate your help.

**Serentripity** · 03-09-2010 02:42 AM

Hello - You might want to research Tapas Acupressure Technique and Emotional Freedom Technique. They are both designed to allow a person to consciously reconstruct their subconscious mind, replacing limiting beliefs with more beneficial ones.

Though it has never occurred to me to try something like you've suggested, I am sure that the techniques could be used to achieve an effect similar to what you are wanting, perhaps in tandem with self-hypnosis.

I hope that you find this helpful! Good luck!!

**Jaden** · 03-09-2010 01:17 PM

I attempted to get into my subconscious through WILD this morning, which is a different way for me, I don't usually WILD I just go though the normal route for LD, but anyway... I got into lucid control right away, still could feel my real body but I didn't care my dream body was working fine and I had full vision which is rather rare for me. So I was doing great, I attempted to summon up my subconscious as a DC to interact with and I heard this awful scream, like someone was in pain, and I got forced out of my dream immediately.

So that was another attempt. If anyone has thoughts I would love to hear them.

**Hijo de la Luna** · 03-10-2010 04:13 AM

Hey Jaden, nice work! However, I can understand that you would like to progress more.

Your subconscious may have been blocking you. If so you might ask yourself why you might be trying to change yourself so vemhently.

Accept youself just the way you are. In an attitude of acceptance your mind will open to you and respond to you.

Then you have an opportunity to Explore your mind and Discover your beliefs.

Acceptance does not mean resignation. It simply means that you allow what is to be because it is. When we can trust ourselves to love ourselves & not hurt ourselves then our many aspects come to us for our love & recognition but when we don't like what we see then our beliefs our aspects hide and protect themselves.

What if you don't need to know what you think you need to know? Let dead dogs lie. Keep moving towards what you want. Ultimately, we all want to be happy. Go now free your self forgive yourself and know the happiness you seek can only exist now if we simply are willing. Its great to have goals. GO for them but don't use them as a reason to feel bad.

Meditation is a skill that is learned. It doesn't have to ttake long. However, happiness, is a habit. Ultimately, finding a way to feel better now then better requires persistance and dedication.

Life isn't about going somewhere but being somewhere. Enjoy the ride. Energy flows where attention goes so just keep looking forward. It sounds like you are doing incredible anyway

Happy Trails

**Jaden** · 03-10-2010 08:15 PM

I have made some steps forward and other backwards. I have increased my dream recall to the point of near memory recognition: which is good. I have however also managed to somehow inhibit my ability to WILD and my ability to even get to SP is slowed. I think I might have broke something I shouldn't have messed with. Perhaps I am being over aggressive about this and need to take things more slowly.

I have a few questions now:

Does anyone else have there subconscious force them out of a dream?

Can I LD too much... Is there a limit on how much your body will let you LD?

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can get around my subconscious blocking my LDing?

Thanks again for all the help, I'm confident that in time I will achieve my goals.

**Serentripity** · 03-10-2010 10:06 PM

My initial reaction is that you are trying to work ON your subconscious instead of working WITH it. The human mind is not a computer, or a machine that can be programmed. You cannot separate or compartmentalize yourself - to have a real, lasting, beneficial effect, you must recognize and apply changes to the whole of your being. While I agree that your goal of being able to consciously perceive time outside of the linear habit is fascinating and useful, it sounds to me like you're looking for a short-cut, when the journey itself is where the knowledge lies.

That said, I have some reading material to recommend: "The Education of Oversoul Seven" by Jane Roberts; and "Spontaneous Evolution" by Bruce Lipton, Steve Bhaerman.

Neither book talks directly about what you are trying to do, but both offer insights that you may find helpful in refining your technique, and the intention behind it.

I don't think that you "broke" anything, however, I agree with Hijo de la Luna that your subconscious is actively resisting your attempt at reprogramming - because it is the way it is FOR A REASON! Don't just try to overwrite your subconscious - listen to it, analyze it, learn to work with it.

Working against yourself will get you nowhere but crazy, and trust is the infinitely more powerful opposite of control.

Good luck, and happy reading!

**Jaden** · 03-11-2010 02:40 AM

I do realize the error in trying to work against my subconscious, but I feel that I should preface why I am attempting such a forceful overhaul. Every time I have become lucid, excluding one time, If my subconscious realized I was aware I was dreaming It would attempt to kill me. I tried working with my sub but when ever I do the same thing happens. Most recently I felt a terrible scream build up until I was forced awake, the time before that It tried to hit me with a car, the time before that everyone's faces blacked out and I got terrorized awake, The time before that I got pushed into a lake of acid, the time before that I was eaten alive by ants... ect. ect. ect.

The real problem here is not my willingness to participate, it's my mind. I feel as if my subconsciousness is a separate entity (though I know this is not the case) and that it will not let me in. I don't think I've had any horrible things happen in my life that would cause such internal mental distress.

I have considered trying to be covert, not announcing that I am dreaming and try to sneak by, but the problem is then Its harder to attain lucidity.

The reason I want to overhaul my mind in this way is to gain the true potential of my sleeping mind during the day. When I'm in my dreams, sometimes its hazy, but other times I have the clarity of mind to do fantastic things. I can work out complex problems without the slightest effort. In my head I can really think unburdened by the restrains of waking life. I really just want that.

This week I have clocked more than 36 hours of sleep (since Monday) and another 6-12 hours in meditation. The rest of my time has been spent working out and reading. I know I can't force this but my mind is actively working against me efforts and I need to reign it back in.

I appreciate everyone's comments and support, you guys have all really been great. I'm glad there is such an open and friendly community here for everyone looking for more in there dreams.

Wish me luck I'm going back in tonight.

**Skicanoe** · 03-11-2010 04:31 AM

"if my subconscious realized I was aware I was dreaming It would attempt to kill me. "

It kinda sounds like something a Shaman friend once described to me. Where an animal or what-have-you attacks and eats you (while tripping). Maybe you should run it through, let the pool of acid dissolve you and see where that puts you! It will free you from the thought block that is challenging you.

**Serentripity** · 03-11-2010 04:39 AM

I feel as if my subconsciousness is a separate entity

It sounds to me that this is what you need to work on - I don't mean find a way around, I mean actually analyze, meditate on, understand, and allow to heal. I would lay money on this division of self being the root of your LD problems - it sounds like your subconscious mind cannot achieve balance with your overly controlling conscious mind. Remember - control is the opposite of trust.

That said, I do think that your goal is interesting and worthwhile, and I'm not at all recommending you give up on it - merely that you analyze your intentions, and be sure you are treating the cause, not the symptoms. If you decide that it is still a worthwhile endeavor, I recommend you go at it from a different perspective, for example, intending to consciously understand and be at one with your subconscious mind, rather than find a way around it or force conscious control upon it.

Something as simple as shifting your intention can have a profound effect. Note that "simple" and "easy" do not mean the same thing - making a genuine shift in intention and focus requires a constant focus on your thought patterns. A good place to start is to notice the words you choose (whether speaking, typing, writing, or thinking to yourself), analyze the hell out of what you are saying, and take note of where it doesn't line up with what you "really mean". Ask "why" until your eyeballs fall out - when you answer one "why", question the answer, and then question that answer, etc. And make an effort to speak as though you are already at one with your mind - the story we tell is the story we live.

Peace to you, and faith that you will find your answers!

**Astralization** · 03-11-2010 02:19 PM

I recommend you suggest the Mind-Tek website. They have a lot of very useful products for you mind. They recently came out with this experimental mind system called the X-Mind, I have not tried it but it looks like it is amazing.

http://mind-tek.com/

**Jaden** · 03-15-2010 02:53 AM

Sorry I haven't updated my progress on this for awhile. I am about to strat classes back up and my schedule was slightly messed up.

The Dream recall has increased slightly and I have sharpened my dream senses. The lucidity control is still messy, but I am no longer being forced out of my dreams. I am calming my routine down now that classes are starting up again.

I will keep updating this, but posts will become less frequent unless I achieve something of greater importance. I want to thank everyone again for all there help and support, I wouldn't have been able to come so far without everyone.

**Dannon Oneironaut** · 03-15-2010 04:10 AM

The subconscious is aware of everything. it knows you better than you know yourself. But your conscious is not very aware of the subconscious. Your subconscious is very wise, but it operates with emotion, not logic. You need to work with it.
I always say that the subconscious is like a child. But a very powerful child. It won't do what you want just because you want it. You have to work with it make it convince it that it also wants what you want. The subconscious is like a hurt child whose parents don't accept it. It may act up and misbehave, but it is just trying to get attention. What it really wants is to be accepted into the realm of the conscious. It doesn't like being banished to the basement. It doesn't like being told what to do. But it wants to please you. It wants to be loved. Symbols and dreams are the language of the subconscious trying to communicate with you. It seems liker it is afraid. It seems like it is scared of you. And you need to realize that you are both the consciuous and the subconscious. You are both. And you are divided, you are split. It is almost impossible to change the subconscious by force or will power. It is a huge part of you, bigger than the small conscious part. It is like a wave trying to force the ocean. It will never win. You need to befriend it, gain its trust, and convince it. Reward it. Does this make sense?