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    1. #1
      Member Jack D.'s Avatar
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      To All You Lucid Gods

      Just a quick question. How exactly do you rationalize the label "God?" Do you believe that you've reached the absolute peak in dream control? Do you believe that there is no where else to grow, or no other way to improve? I don't mean this to sound snippy in any way, I really am just curious.


      The thing about dreaming is, I've always looked at the LD as a series of levels. A rough idea would be something like the following:

      1) Basic Dreams, no control whatsoever

      2) Basic Dreams, mild control (flying, etc.)

      3) Basic Dreams (still no realization that you are dreaming) with heavy control

      4) Lucid Dreams with no control

      5) Lucid Dreams with heavy control

      6) Lucid Dreams with absolute control

      and then, you've mastered dreaming within your own little bubble. But is there more? Are there additional levels? Maybe:

      7) Astral Dreaming with no control (leaving your own subconcious, and entering a sort of global common ground for dreaming)



      I mean, it just doesn't make any sense that our abilities are capped off. Besides, I know that all of you lucid dreamers out there have had some sort of an experience that has led you to believe that there is more to this whole dreaming thing then thought forms and pictures.

      About half of the time I dream a little bit over a level 3, while the rest of the time I have a pretty even distribution of "5's" and "6's" but I've always felt that I was missing something, just like I used to when I was very young and only dreamt at around level 4.

      I had a very strong feeling that I could do more with the dreams. I have that same feeling now.

      Any thoughts?

    2. #2
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      I do not think the label is meant to be taken so literally.

      I can understand how that could be misconstrued as just that.
      But I would guess that we would all agree that there is room to grow and advance.
      I certainly do not know of anyone that has mastered lucid dreaming.
      In addition to that, mastering LDs for one person may be entirely different for another.

    3. #3
      Member Jack D.'s Avatar
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      Right, but I think that mastering the LD is impossible. I don't think you can ever master it, I think the best you can do is recognize that you will always be growing.

    4. #4
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Jack D.
      Right, but I think that mastering the LD is impossible. I don't think you can ever master it, I think the best you can do is recognize that you will always be growing.
      exactly

    5. #5
      Barned Awhislyle's Avatar
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      But there becomes a point at which someone is so good, that getting better at it doesn't really show any advantage.

      Like giving a marathon runner more aerodynamic shoes. By the end of the race he is a half step faster than he would have been with his regular shoes.
      Cheis. Dailo.
      It's tough to bring someone back that never really lived.

    6. #6
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      Actually the claim of being Lucid Gods is mostly empty boast.

      It is like Lucifer's claim to be equal to God. It lasted only long enough for God to marshal His remaining Angels against him.

      You see, Dream Control is more than often enough frustrated with False Awakenings and then a total collapse in the ability to Recal and Remember Dreams.

      You see, we all dream for a reason. The Higher Mind has its reasons for creating the Dreams that it creates for us. When we try to usurp complete control away from all levels of Higher and Collective Consciousness, then, after we use up whatever chances we are given (God is Merciful) then the retribution is let loose upon us. Lucid Dreaming is frustrated or Dreaming is entirely shut off.

    7. #7
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      I really don't like being refered to as a LG....makes me sound like a Hera-like gal that shoots lightning bolts out of my butt in my LDs.

      The thing about dreaming is, I've always looked at the LD as a series of levels. A rough idea would be something like the following: [/b]
      4) Lucid Dreams with no control [/b]
      At one time in my life, I was at this level, but it was really when I first started the WILDs (I was 3 and had a really serious insomnia spell)




      5) Lucid Dreams with heavy control *

      6) Lucid Dreams with absolute control [/b]
      Most of my dreams I have complete control in, and can command my own subjects, and any person that enters my dream (no evil spirit would be stupid enough to enter my dreams). I sometimes have lack of control, but do have control over waking up, and even whipping out my NDS, but it only happens during stressful weeks.

      7) Astral Dreaming with no control (leaving your own subconcious, and entering a sort of global common ground for dreaming) [/b]
      Translation:
      7) Dream Sharing with no control from either perspective
      8) Dream Sharing with both perspectives having complete control
      Missing#) Dream Sharing with both perspectives having complete control, and doing it very often.
      Are you talking about DSing here? If that is seriously the 7th level/8th, I am most certainly there, but it still needs a bit of work (because, well not enough people in Utah are interested in LDing/good at LDing.) and I don't do it often enough to be a pro at it (and no, those special WILDs I sometimes have do not count.

      I think that there are many more levels of LDing that one can reach. It is a matter of one believing in these levels. Oftentimes, these levels can be considered Beyond Dreaming (kind of like the forum), because of their intenseness, and the fact they may be related to LDing, but unfortunately, these theories have not been tested out yet (except for maybe my 'special WILDs' aka ...?), or might have been tested, but not enough experiments have been correct to prove their existance.

      Anyways, here is a list of what a LDer could do once they get to a high enough level:

      ~Dream Sharing
      ~...?s (it is a type of WILD, but this WILD is 100% accurate to our world, except for a few dream signs)
      ~Stuff like doing the Lucid Tasks before they are assigned, doing something in a LD, and then doing it the next day
      ~Healing
      ~More that is freaky, but unknown (and really, I don't believe much of anything else)

    8. #8
      Member Jack D.'s Avatar
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      Well, no Lucid Gods have responded.


      Thanks to the rest of you though. Peace!

    9. #9
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      For me, it's not about controlling dreams or having sex, or anything like that.

      It's about what can be learned in lucid dreams that can't be learned in wakefulness.

      I've never "controlled" anything in a dream except myself.

      And I don't think you can find out anything about the future in a dream.

    10. #10
      Member Jack D.'s Avatar
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      But my question was this: Do you think you've reached the highest level of lucidity?

      And if so - how did you get there, and what is it like?

    11. #11
      Sorcerer alfy984's Avatar
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      No one knows the highest level... I believe that with really advanced dreaming you can project yoru dream body into so called reality and create a double. Also i would say if you ever find foreign energies in your dreams you must have an impeccible dream attention and very clear mind. The possibilities are endless, dreaming is our gateway to infinity
      C:\Documents and Settings\Alex\Desktop\alexgrey.jpg
      The worst mistake you can make is to think you're alive when you're really asleep in lifes waiting room.

    12. #12
      Barned Awhislyle's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Jack D.
      But my question was this: Do you think you've reached the highest level of lucidity?

      And if so - how did you get there, and what is it like?
      I recently started having level 6 lucids dreams more often, and most of my lucids have some level of control.

      I would say that is the limit. There are no OBEs, no AP, no dream sharing, so I guess all I have to work on is having LDs every night I choose, and being able to have absolute in every dream if I wish.

      How I did it was, I just had regular lucids with little or no control for a while and it just wasn't worth it, for me, If I had no control then there was no point in becoming lucid, I made my concern having more control over my lucids. It increased, then I started reading BillyBob's posts, and those helped me the most.
      Cheis. Dailo.
      It's tough to bring someone back that never really lived.

    13. #13
      Member Jack D.'s Avatar
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      But all most all of the things I've read in BillyBob's thread I've already accomplished. I just can't help but think there's this whole other level that people just aren't hitting. I mean, what is the limit? I don't think, and I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this judging by many of the responses, that the dreams end within an individual.

      I feel like they're a part of something bigger than any single person.

    14. #14
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Jack D.
      But my question was this: Do you think you've reached the highest level of lucidity?

      And if so - how did you get there, and what is it like?

      This is my take on a very high level of lucidity.
      I have done my best to try and explain it. But to experience it I believe is the only way to understand it.

      A new level of awareness

    15. #15
      Barned Awhislyle's Avatar
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      I don't suscribe to it myself, but here it is.
      http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9
      Cheis. Dailo.
      It's tough to bring someone back that never really lived.

    16. #16
      Member Jack D.'s Avatar
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      You sent me to the "Beyond Dreaming" forum? That's sort of ridiculous. I'm talking about lucid dreaming here, not New Age theory. I've been to that forum, some of the stuff makes sense, but it isn't what I'm talking about right here.

      Howetzer, that level you're talking about - I've been there once myself, only I wasn't sad at all. It happened three years ago, and however Western of me it is, I'm not yet ready to give it away. The experience changed my life, and allowed me to realize for the first time that my dreams were my own. To this day it was the most perfect of any dream I've ever had.

      I was entirely conscious, and filed with a fiery, near passionate sense of purpose. Still, I was tranquil, and completely confident. It was like lucid enlightenment. To this day it is the dream to which I judge all others in the morning, but I still think there's more.

      I could list the things that I think may exist, but all of this would just be theory, and would miss the point. What got me to my first enlightening experience within a dream was a belief that there was a level to reach. It took me about a month of journaling, and experimenting, before this dream happened.

      Again, I'm not talking about "beyond dreaming" or anything like that. I'm talking about something else. I'm not making myself clear though. Sorry. I guess the thought wasn't fully formed when I started the thread.

      Peace!!

      Jack D.

    17. #17
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      Originally posted by Jack D.
      But my question was this: Do you think you've reached the highest level of lucidity?

      And if so - how did you get there, and what is it like?
      So, what is the highest level of Lucidity? Would you say DSing would have to be? Or how about figuring out the Lucid tasks of the month and doing them before Seeker assigns them?

      Or is it maybe something having to do with realistic feelings (not really) in a LD?


    18. #18
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      >>But my question was this: Do you think you've reached the highest level of lucidity?

      And if so - how did you get there, and what is it like? <<

      That's a meaningless question. Sometimes I have LDs with awesome clarity and detail, and other times I feel like I'm drunk and can't think clearly.

      It's WHAT YOU CAN LEARN in an LD that matters. "Levels" has no real meaning..

    19. #19
      Barned Awhislyle's Avatar
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      Originally posted by Jack D.
      You sent me to the "Beyond Dreaming" forum? That's sort of ridiculous. I'm talking about lucid dreaming here, not New Age theory. I've been to that forum, some of the stuff makes sense, but it isn't what I'm talking about right here.
      Originally posted by Jack D.+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jack D.)</div>
      I mean, what is the limit? I don't think ... that the dreams end within an individual.

      I feel like they're a part of something bigger than any single person.[/b]
      Sorry if I read wrong, but that sounded like you were talking about experiencing outside of an individual in a dream, ie. Dream Sharing or OBEs, which is why I sent you to the Beyond Dreaming forum.

      <!--QuoteBegin-arne saknussemm

      It's WHAT YOU CAN LEARN in an LD that matters. "Levels" has no real meaning..
      I disagree, I don't feel like I learn anything from LDs, since everything in a dream is formulated from memories, it seems like it would be hard to learn anything new, the only way you could would be by deducing something new from the knowledge you already had, which could have been done while awake.
      Cheis. Dailo.
      It's tough to bring someone back that never really lived.

    20. #20
      Member .jared.'s Avatar
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      Originally posted by Awhislyle


      I disagree, I don't feel like I learn anything from LDs, since everything in a dream is formulated from memories, it seems like it would be hard to learn anything new, the only way you could would be by deducing something new from the knowledge you already had, which could have been done while awake.
      The only possible way to deduce something new is by gathering knowledge and sorting it. You cannot create a new idea if you do not formulate it yourself from previously gained knowledge. While we do not gain any new knowledge from dreams we gain a new perspective on life as well as a new way of looking at things (if we look for it). I think we do get a lot of new ideas and new ways to do things through our dreams.

      Take Einstein for example, most of his ideas were taken from thought experiments. Where he would gather knowledge and then just think about it. This is what lead him to discover numerous new theories and principles.

    21. #21
      Barned Awhislyle's Avatar
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      Originally posted by .jared.



      Take Einstein for example, most of his ideas were taken from thought experiments. Where he would gather knowledge and then just think about it. This is what lead him to discover numerous new theories and principles.
      Exactly, you don't have to be dreaming to think about things and come up with conclusions.

      /moot?
      Cheis. Dailo.
      It's tough to bring someone back that never really lived.

    22. #22
      Member Jack D.'s Avatar
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      Originally posted by arne saknussemm


      It's WHAT YOU CAN LEARN in an LD that matters. "Levels" has no real meaning..
      But then why have you chosen the highest level? Have you learned some unspeakable truth?!

      Share it!! Come on man, don't hold out!!

    23. #23
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      I claim that certain knowledge can be accessed in lucid dreams that can't be accessed in any otther way. However, I'm a long way from accessing and compiling it all.

      If you want to know more, go to my profile and click on my Google blog, then click on CONTACT to e-mail me.

    24. #24
      Member .jared.'s Avatar
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      Originally posted by Awhislyle


      Exactly, you don't have to be dreaming to think about things and come up with conclusions.

      /moot?
      All im saying is that dreams offer a different viewpoint on something. Something you wouldn't normally think of while awake. Dreams can help you come to conclusions that seem to allude you while awake.

      here is an example. In the waking world you have a fight with your wife. You fail see her side of the argument because you are angry, not because you don't have the ability to see it. However in a dream you may be foggy and forget that you were angry, and see the situation over again from her side.

      That was a bad example

      I don't think that dreams necessarily teach us something. But they show us a different side of things that normal waking circumstances may usually prevent.

    25. #25
      Rotaredom Howie's Avatar
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      "He who teaches himself has a fool for a teacher." Ben Franklin
      That's why we use the knowledge of others to build upon what we already know.

      Our subconscious can use that information and put a personal unique idea to an already existing idea. But unless you feel that dream content is heaven sent of from other sources. I would have to agree with .Jared.

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