How long do i need to study the ground?

[Funnel]

In my LD last night I studied the ground for about 20 seconds like it was recomended. I felt the ground and percieved the tiny details. Wehn I looked up, I had perfect clarity for 5 seconds, then the dreaded black fog came and I wasn't lucid anymore! Is this because I wasn't grounding myself in the dream long enough? Was my control weaker because it was a DILD? Could it be that I just arrived at the end of my REM period? Its so frustrating because for my past 3-4 LD, I can't seem to stay inside them

[Adrenaline Junkie]

I think that when you look at the ground, don't think about how long your taking to take in the detail and clarity, just look at it until you feel that everything is right, make sure everything is stable and in control, do it gently because if you rush things you are bound to fall into the trap of losing lucidity. Just take it slowly and keep telling yourself that your dreaming.

[Adam]

I don't think it has anything to do with what you said. I think it was because you expected the dream to end, so it did. What you need to do when lucid is not worry about it ending, not worry when you will wake up. But embrace and enjoy the dream. You don't have to just look at the ground to increase clarity or vividness - there are a lot of other things you can do, pick a flower and look at it and smell it, walk along with your arms out, feeling the wind, the more you panic about the dream fading, the more the chance there is of the dream fading! The trick is to just go with it, act as normal and enjoy the dream as it is, them when you have full stability then carry on with the lucid. Hope this helps.

[calh]

Did you read billybobs guide? http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...ad.php?t=45847

[Funnel]

Yeah, I have read a bunch of Billybobs tuturials. I like the "picking a flower and smelling it" idea. I once smelled a person and that was my longest lucid ever (now that I'm typing this I realize it sounds like im a perv )but lately when I've looked for a person, they are too far away and I lose lucidity before I reach them. Thanks for the ideas

[Adam]

It's because looking for someone almost sets this anxiety in you, to find them before you wake up. If you are new to lucid dreaming, then I would suggest you only go along with lucid dreams until you get used to the environments and learn to control them better.

[BillyBob]

In my LD last night I studied the ground for about 20 seconds like it was recomended. I felt the ground and percieved the tiny details. Wehn I looked up, I had perfect clarity for 5 seconds, then the dreaded black fog came and I wasn't lucid anymore! Forgive me for simply taking a passage from another post of mine, but I think I said it best in the Huge LDs tutorial I wrote a few days ago... () -----quote----- Your lucid dreams are scenarios. Usually, when the average DVr enters a lucid dream. They change the scenario to something along the lines of: "Thing that isn't going to last long that anything can happen in so I really really need to hurry up and do what I need to do right now!" Fail. When you change the dream scenario to something like that, your dooming yourself to failure. Your dreams are, even when not lucid, what you expect them to be. when you expect your lucid dreams to be fast paced horror fests of beasts, and passing out into wakefulness... thats exactly what they become. Instead of thinking like that when you get lucid, think of it along the lines of some other scenario. Here's an example of a lucid I had a few nights ago: I get lucid and find myself on my driveway. Instead of freaking out because I'm dreaming, I gently look around my environment and think back to the dream I was having. Since I was having a dream that was like real life: I was just walking around my driveway; I decide to simply walk around the environment in the same fashion. Except lucid of my state. After walking around a little while (not being bothered by anything out of the ordinary: this is a "real life" scenario remember), I get in my car and go on a pedestrian killing spree. You see, that dream's scenario was "real life". This means that all rules in the dream were set to real life standards. This same thing can be applied to any dream scenario. The moment you get lucid, decide what scenario (ruleset) you want the dream to follow. It can be anything. If you notice something isn't fitting with your dream scenario, just remember that it has to - in the scenario your in, whatever it is would be totally impossible. Apply this to create lucids where your on a mission with the USS Enterprise, or where fairies are real, or whatever it is you want to do. It really adds a whole new side to lucid dreaming. -----end of quote----- The scenario that you've been applying to all your LDs is: Blurry, fragile, end quickly no matter what, black fog always sets in near the end. When you "know" that your lucids are going to be like that, they will be. What you have to do is let go of all your doubt that they will be anything less than real life. You have to beyond a doubt know that they will be exactly like real life. Don't think about when your going to wake up, don't think about whether something you do in the lucid is going to wake you up. Just think about what your doing, and know in the back of your mind that your in the scenario of real life (or whatever other you want), and that real life/whatever you chose 's laws are the only laws that can effect you. If you notice some other laws are attempting to effect you (your invented law of short lucid dreams), then remember that that law cannot effect you in your scenario! if they did, it would be totally illogical, and totally impossible.

[nina]

The reason it didn't work was because you spent too much time staring at the ground lol. Once you stare at something, anything for too long...it's going to lose it's interest, that special thing that caught your attention in the first place, and cause your dream to fade. My suggestions. Use verbal commands in conjunction with a technique such as examining the ground, a wall, anything...for me examining the palms of my hands works best. I used to do the ground but hands are way more convenient and work better, trust me. Hold your hands up to your face, examine every little wrinkle and detail of them, at the same time say "stabilize lucidity NOW". When you look up everything will be crystal clear, if things start to get blurry, do it again. Study your hands, either say the same thing again or try "increase visuals NOW"...say this forcefully and with intent. During some of my lucid dreams I have to stop like every 20 seconds to study my hands again and use a verbal command to keep the dream from fading. After awhile though, it becomes annoying so I'll just let myself wake up. During other dreams though I can go several minutes without having to study anything or use verbal commands. Just practice the different techniques and see what works best for you. Everyone's different.

[BillyBob]

You can make it a law in your scenario that whenever you say a special word everything clears up, or you can say that when you pull your sunglasses off everything will clear up... or whatever other thing you choose. Looking at your surroundings does the same thing as "clarity now", except a little better because your actually seeing just how detailed things are getting (thus you can study the objects for a little longer if it doesn't get "clear" enough). Its not "wrong" or "bad" to use verbal commands, just unnecessary when you use the examining techniques. Another reason I always recommend that people examine their environment instead of simply using a verbal/other command is because examining serves a double purpose: It makes everything clearer and more vivid It grounds your lucidity of the dreamstate by making you sit quietly for a little while and think about where you are. Of course, if you think that your still going to have to use a verbal command even after examining everything, then you will.

[Funnel]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Yelling "Clarity Now!" has worked for me, so I'm pretty sure I've convinced myself it works. I will try this with studying my hands. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that I have to create dream logic accordingly to the scenario? So when I enter a dream, I have to remember that a black mist does not exist because that is a preposterous idea. Why would a black mist be hanging around? That makes no sense at all. OR, are you saying that I should just ignore the the idea of a black fog all together? If I don't think it, it won't happen. I'm definitly going to keep working on grounding myself in a dream

[BillyBob]

Thanks for all the suggestions! Yelling "Clarity Now!" has worked for me, so I'm pretty sure I've convinced myself it works. I will try this with studying my hands. Well, remember here that your not "convincing" yourself of the idea that something will work, your simply knowing that it will work no matter what. If theres any doubt inside of you that something is going to fail, then theres a good chance that it will. orrect me if I'm wrong, but you are saying that I have to create dream logic accordingly to the scenario? So when I enter a dream, I have to remember that a black mist does not exist because that is a preposterous idea. Why would a black mist be hanging around? That makes no sense at all. OR, are you saying that I should just ignore the the idea of a black fog all together? If I don't think it, it won't happen. Think about a time that you've been walking through your dark house and suddenly thought you saw something move in a doorway. The only reason you didn't freak out, is because you said in the back of your mind: "wait a second, its totally impossible for a beast to be lurking in my house, this is real life!" Thats the same thing you'll do in a dream. Don't think to yourself: "well, the dreams scenario could allow for something thats impossible every now and then..." Think like you would in real life. No doubts, no worries, just know that because your in a scenario thats set to "real life" (or whatever), theres no way for a black fog to exist! That would go against everything that you've ever possibly known about the real world. Thus, its impossible, and you shouldn't worry yourself over seeing it (it was just an illusion caused by a trick of the light, or a mosquito had landed on your eyelashes, or maybe you just sat up too fast). __________ Don't attempt to convince yourself of the truth of something. Just remember that dreams (even non lucid ones) are based on scenarios, and that the scenario your in right this moment makes whatever laws it supports solid, logical, unbreakable laws of nature (think: just like a monster existing in real life is impossible, so is a scenario's laws being broken impossible). Remember that if something challenges the laws of your scenario (just like when something in real life challenges its laws: a "beast" in the dark), that that thing has a totally logical reason for being there (its a mosquito on your eyelashes etc), thus doesn't deserve your worry or thoughts.

[nina]

Its not "wrong" or "bad" to use verbal commands, just unnecessary when you use the examining techniques. I disagree. If they both work, then it should work twice as well when used together. Which is why I suggest to use both verbal commands as well as the examining technique at the same time.

[BillyBob]

I disagree. If they both work, then it should work twice as well when used together. Which is why I suggest to use both verbal commands as well as the examining technique at the same time. Well, usually that would be true, but the nature of the dreamstate is to give however much you ask for. When your examining your environment, your asking for hyper reality: your seeing exactly just how "real" your environment looks, then demanding more of it. When you do this, your dream becomes more "real" than reality (after you've gone through all your sense that is), and thus there is no need for any supplement vividity increasers. Like I said though, if your expecting to have to say "increase clarity" or whatever, then your making it a law that the dream can't become hyper-real until you say those two words.

[nina]

I think you're trying to speak for everyone when you should only be speaking for yourself. It's different for each individual. And I don't necessarily agree with your theories, sorry.

[BillyBob]

I think you're trying to speak for everyone when you should only be speaking for yourself. It's different for each individual. And I don't necessarily agree with your theories, sorry. Sorry if I offended you in some way, I was just attempting to explain myself

[nina]

Sorry if I offended you in some way, I was just attempting to explain myself No I'm not offended, I just think that the dreamworld and the dream experience is very different for everyone and therefore I don't think it's wise to say that one way of doing something is the right way, or the better way. Or that a theory that you have is necessarily correct. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just think you should be more open-minded to consider other views? I really don't know what I'm saying I guess lol...

[Mrs. Jones]

i have the same problem-- i look @ground, clarity fades. last time, instead of focusing on an object, i did something else: i relaxed, and didn't focus on anything in particular. i exhaled, and my surroundings instantly became more vivid. why did this happen? maybe because: -relaxing doesn't get you excited, so you don't get distracted -i really did expect it to work. so it did. i havent had any LDs since. maybe it won't work next time. try it out tho.

[Funnel]

I had a LD last night and the SAME THING HAPPENED! I would be more frustrated but I'm getting an unusual amount of lucids lately. This will be my month, I know it. Okay, I'll try the exhale idea. I also want to try feeling the wind. Unlike smelling something where I need an object, no matter where I am there should feel wind.

[nina]

I had a LD last night and the SAME THING HAPPENED! I would be more frustrated but I'm getting an unusual amount of lucids lately. This will be my month, I know it. Okay, I'll try the exhale idea. I also want to try feeling the wind. Unlike smelling something where I need an object, no matter where I am there should feel wind. Maybe give verbal commands a shot. Works for me and many others. =)

[Funnel]

Yes! I had a 5 minute LD last night! There were two things I did differently. 1) Instead of waking up after 4 hours of sleep, I woke up after 8 hours. I know 8 hours isnt recomended for a WBTB, but hey, it worked. 2) I did not focus on my hands, scream "clarity now", or anything that would better ground me in my dream. I just proceeded with attempting my LD task which was a reanactment of 300 which didn't work out too well. I made the Persians appear before I made a weopon for myself! Took me a while until I realized I could shoot fire balls. I think once I stop fighting against my reality and just work with it, the dream will stabalize and clarify itself. I'm not sure if this was the advice you were giving Billybob, but my interpretation of your advice worked, so thanks!