What is the link between the dream and waking reality

[Anelior]

Okay, here's something to ponder. I'm not looking for answers, only opinions and discussions. This is a key question one who is into dreamwalking might ponder: What is the difference between the world of your dream and this world? I don't mean qualitatively (well, if you want to, feel free)...I mean as a reality in itself. AND, more important, what is the link between the two? How can one feed the dreaming world into this waking world? We very easily do the opposite...so does that mean that it is perhaps possible to attain a kind of "lucidity" here? You all have heard of strange things happening to people who get right into meditation and far-out-there practices of focusing the mind. And also, as an additional point, our science still doesn't understand the way this reality is strung together. So maybe...just maybe...there's a link between the dream world and the waking world? A link that maybe if one found they could *bend* this reality toward expectation. Share your thoughts!

[Seeker]

Good topic! There is really no difference between the dream world and the waking world in my opinion. We are an energy being, a soul if you prefer to think of it in that way. Our soul interacts with this world via a mental contruct, the body image. The body image is the mental conception of who and what we are. This body image seems to be unique to mamals. That being said, when we are awake, we have a constant stream of input from our senses that keeps the body image in sync with the physical world and our physical body. Our soul interacts with the body image which in turn interacts with the physical world. When we sleep, external stimulus is removed and the body image is not kept in sync with the physical world. This allows us to dream, and more importantly, to dream lucidly. Through years of meditation and practice, people have been able to manipulate the body image while awake. So back to your question. The only difference between waking and dreaming is in the synchronization of the body image with the physical world. Now another question to ponder. When we are dreaming, does the body image just kind of float around, or is it attracted to and synchronizing with something other than the physical world?

[Anelior]

Wow! neat concept, I never really thought about it that way. I like that term "body image" because it implies exactly what I think we are and this physical world is: an "image" in the cosmic mind. However it is an image that we believe in so strongly and are therefore bound to so strongly that we go through this entire waking life (most of us) thinking it "real". It is almost like a form of "cosmic brainwashing"...heh And the point you bring up about how meditation starts to create the ability to manipulate the body image...wow, I can testify to that. It is so very true. I guess though we have in this world and among most groups of people the attitude (once again, a form of "cosmic brainwashing") that there are limitations to this real world. But the limitations are only limitations that we allow because we truly believe them. They have therefore had to call this waking world "reality" to distinguish it from the other "worlds" that their cosmic mind can experience, i.e. in daydreaming, thinking, dreaming, hallucinating, etc. Now, I can hear the criticism coming on that statement! Lots of people have said "well if you realy believe in it it will be", and well, we can't ignore the fact that lots of people have tried that and it didn't work. But I was careful to use the word *truly* believe. There is a difference between *truly believing* and believing. I am not talking about just the intensity of the belief. For example, some people can get right fanatical and seem to unconditionally believe something yet to no effect. I heard a story once of Tibetan monks who believed so strongly that cloth from the Dalai Lama's clothing would protect them from the bullets of the invading Chinese soldiers that they walked right out faithfully chanting and focusing on their belief....all of them were shot and killed on the spot. I have come to see that "true belief" is a pathway, not a simple way of thinking at the moment. One must have a belief that comes from belief in your true self, your cosmic self, if you will, and not from an expectation from elsewhere. For example, if I had a belief that if I focused hard enough on there being, suddenly, a car in my driveway because I want a new car to impress all my friends it probably wouldn't come. But if I was seeking cosmic intervention to help me save a family from a burning house then that belief is driven by cosmic identity, not from my own illusory egotistical identity. If I was of the right mind and I was indeed compelled to save the family because the cosmos wanted me to, then I probably would survive and save the family. (Key word *probably*...there are so many factors involved on what comes of our *true belief* that many things could happen, all according to cosmic purpose) True belief is transformative. It is something that is focused on and the focus on such a thing transforms the body image (I am going to adopt your term from now on, if you don't mind). For example, with Threading, it is a way of focusing my energy on with world which my awareness is interacting with. It is something I continually focus on and slowly it is transforming my body image. Anyway I guess, so end this note, I will say I really agree with your idea that there is no difference...it is just a different projection of your Cosmic Self (or soul, or spirit, or whatever one would like to call it). Haha, actually a lot of the questions I ask are dealt with in the book I'm writing now. Particularly this state of "reality" which we know as our "life". I find that in sharing that topic and my ideas with other people a lot of inspiration comes...it is a synergy that I find occurs when the wisdom of many people combine together...my theory is that the "cosmic mind", since it is universal and present in every person, is amplified and expresses itself clearer. Hence the reason for sharing ideas and why it often produces the most imspiration...I think I have to accredit most of my thoughts to that process. That is why I'm an *extroverted* introvert!

[dreamshadow]

Wow Anelior, I just joined and I've been searching through the posts, and I have to say, you and I think the most alike. Just to challenge you, though: What IS reality? How do you know what's real? I mean, did you ever stop to think about the present moment and what EXACTLY puts you there? I mean, you pass through dreams at night, and states where you don't remember anything. But did you cease to exist? And what does it mean to cease to exist? Is it just that you might be existing in a way that is beyond what your confined view of perceiving? This is the sort of thing I always ponder. Anyway, would be interested in hearing from you. Kyle p.s. feel free to pm me and we can chat