Tupac

[ViSions]

In my opinion, Tupac Amaru Shakur is the greatest of all time. Any type of music. His words are true poetry. He's unlike most other rappers that just talk about money and hoes, and shooting people. He speaks of so many different things, on so many different levels. I love his music, especially when I'm feeling a little down, just turn on some tupac and it gets me going again. Dunno exactly why I felt the need to post this, I just felt like giving him some recognition.

[wasup]

I just felt like giving him some recognition. [/b] cuz he's so obscure

[ViSions]

cuz he's so obscure [/b] Give him my recognition, I know he gets a lot of it. EDIT: Oh, and ataraxis, what's wrong with you? Why are you always so bitter? I've read quite a few of your posts, and you're always such a negative person, why not take this into consideration: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. EDIT2:But then again, if everyone went by that rule, the world would be a much quieter place I suppose. And I can see getting angry once in a while. And I'm sorry for saying you're always bitter, because you probably aren't.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Well, I'll say this, Tupac was pretty good. I mean, he was definitely one of the best mainstream rappers around. Unfortunately, he was also just about the biggest influence on the perversion of "thug life" persona that is running through most mainstream rappers (and black, inner-city youths) today, and was very much about the money/cars/bitches attitude, though he did branch out and take things to a deeper, more positive, level than many. But to say he was the best? I definitely disagree. Dig a little further into Hip-Hop and you'll find artists like Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Black Thought, Common, KRS-1, Pharoahe Monch, Del the Funkee Homosapien, Outkast (who were mainstream also but, I feel, way ahead of Tupac), The Gravediggaz. Man, the list goes on. Tupac was good, but it's only when I stuck my head a little further underground that I was really impressed.

[wasup]

Oh, and ataraxis, what's wrong with you? Why are you always so bitter? I've read quite a few of your posts, and you're always such a negative person, why not take this into consideration: if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. [/b] I was beaten as a child

[ViSions]

he was also just about the biggest influence on the perversion of "thug life" persona that is running through most mainstream rappers (and black, inner-city youths) today [/b] Well, 'Thug Life' in Tupac's words doesn't mean Gansta, or shooting or anything. It means someone who grew up with nothing, and overcame it. According to him, you don't have to be a gansta to be a thug, some really huge nerd down the street that maybe had no money growing up, and bad parents is under the category of 'thug life'. And yes, you're right, near the end of his career he got into the money/bitche's rap etc. But if you dig down to his earlier songs like 'Keep your head up' etc... You'll find that it was very the opposite. I was beaten as a child [/b] If you're lying, shame on you. If not, then I'm kind of sorry, although doesn't mean you have to be rude to people.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Well, 'Thug Life' in Tupac's words doesn't mean Gansta, or shooting or anything. It means someone who grew up with nothing, and overcame it. According to him, you don't have to be a gansta to be a thug, some really huge nerd down the street that maybe had no money growing up, and bad parents is under the category of 'thug life'. [/b] Oh I know. That's why I said it was a perversion of his philosophy that is really the cause for all of that. Alot of people either twist or don't understand the words that he's truley saying. They get it mixed up with the context and the image that he often portrayed. Can't really blame him for that, though, I suppose. His music wasn't blatantly poisonous, like most of the BS you'll hear out there now. He definitely had heart. "Dear Mama" is still one of my favorite rap songs, now that I think about it.

[ViSions]

Yeah for sure, Dear Moma is very good. I love all his songs like that where he gives recognition to all the people that deserve it.

[eclectic_dreamer]

"Tupac Amaru Shakur is the greatest of all time. Any type of music." that's an ignorant and ridiculous thing to say, but i do realise things like this all come down to personal opinion and as long as you dig it that's all that matters.

[ViSions]

"Tupac Amaru Shakur is the greatest of all time. Any type of music." that's an ignorant and ridiculous thing to say, but i do realise things like this all come down to personal opinion and as long as you dig it that's all that matters. [/b] Actually, I think that post is about as ignorant as you can get. I suppose you purposely left out the first part of that quote where it says 'In my opinion'. But whatever, you can go die in a fire for all I care. EDIT: Yes I know that was a little harsh. But damnit, that really pissed me off.

[wasup]

But whatever, you can go die in a fire for all I care. [/b] Well, fight ignorance with ignorance. That's what my old ma' and pa' used to say.

[ViSions]

Well, fight ignorance with ignorance. That's what my old ma' and pa' used to say. [/b] Ignorance: The condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. What I said wasn't Ignorance, just plain mean, insulting. And even if it was ignorance, some people don't understand anything else. BTW: ataraxis, I really don't feel like fighting with you. I'm sorry if I offended you earlier, I'd rather have you as a friend instead of an enemy.

[blindfold_off]

Pac is the shiznit. I especially liked his Makaveli days. His music was so raw and full of energy.

[ShYne123]

I dont listen 2 rap much anymore, but up there with tupac is common and most deff. (like Oneironaut said) -I hate the ignorant rap lyrics now days..only a few write stuff a 6year old who swore alot couldnt do.

[eclectic_dreamer]

sorry visions, i honestly didn't mean to offend you..i think you've overreacted a bit, i didn't see the first bit you wrote "in my opinion", my bad. no need for childish insults

[Indecent Exposure]

OKay I'm gl;ad this topic came up when I was 14 he was the greatest in my eys, then I started to l;isten 2 underground hip-hop but yes as far as maintsream, commericalisd hip-hop goes, he was the best The early days, the old school stuff he made, word of wisdom and such, had power Towards the I tend to think he sold ou, he became commeriiaclised and very very mainstream A lto of talent, an insiring story, with some inspiring lyrics but if you truly want t lsiten 2 hip-hop well Dead Prez, Immortal Technique, Ras Kass (occasionaly) I'd have to quote Oneironaut a lot of his list however, i mgonna strongly disagree with the mos def business awful but yeh, if you want to lsiten to true underground hip-hop, immortal technique if you havent heard his music itll be a revelation# Pac was good, but his early msuic was just a shadow of some of the earlier old school hardcore bands like Public Enemy. And his newer stuff, well its catchy but nah, its not deep, its not real, it dusnt touch a chord. Also some of the black nationlism that I saw in his music I didnt lyk Lyk in, "Lst One Left" Idi Amin features wot kind of stage name is that I assume you know who Idi Amin was if not, research it Imran

[Oneironaut Zero]

however, i mgonna strongly disagree with the mos def business awful [/b] Blasphemy. Mos is one of the best. But I definitely agree on Immortal Technique.

[Indecent Exposure]

i respect hisd lyrical content and his social awareness but I see a lot of black nationalism and homo-phobia in his lyircs the homophobic cotnent is nome of immrotal technqiues lyrics is the only thing tht lessens my lvo and respect for his music. plus im simply not tht big on his flow tis average whereas Technque is poetry on a mic Imran

[Howie]

I'm not trying to come across negative to your views. But I think Tupac was a disgrace and the world would have been a better place with out him. I don't take that aggressive of a stance with too many people. He took a fragile culture and heightened their aggression to a frenzy. "Thug life" What a role model.

[Indecent Exposure]

Nononon not at all, I respect your opinion its a common misconception Indeed this thug life business, he categorically told people, by thug I dont mean what you read in your dictioanry He sued the word thug to describe somebody with a siumialr up brigning to him raised on the streets down to erth, a freedom fighter almost the msuci 2pac created encoruaged people to give up the gangster life and to rise above and achieve there dreams a lot of his music was angry, but rightly so His lyrics were influential in the idea of giving balck people ui namerica a sense of self respect traching them that they were of worth parallel to Bob Marely's idea of "emancipating oneslef from mental slavery" I cant defed his alter lyrics, almost guns and bitches lyrics, but you have 2 take itn oaccount that this man, came across a hell of a lot of ahrdship in his life not only that he was a black man in america i tihnk that speaks volumes just a question: Do you sliten to any hip-hop music, immortal technique for instance? Imran

[Geves]

my mother use to tell me if i have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all. but just in case you were one of those weirdo's who think his death was faked... he's dead. according to wikipedia his bodyguard even put out a documentary about him.. that's pretty sad when everyone and their mother is trying to make money off of your legacy. i'm with howitzer on this one. he didn't do anything noble for black people, he exploited their wallets and constantly spoke proudly of violence... so he put out a poetry book, what a pillar of the community. we should all strive to be more like pac. i'll even take it a step further and say that rap/hip-hop (or whatever people are trying to call it these days to make it sound more credible) is nothing more than a celebration of debauchery, stupidity, and violence. it has zero amount of worth and should never be spoken of in same breath as music. not only that he was a black man in america i tihnk that speaks volumes[/b] huh?

[Oneironaut Zero]

i'll even take it a step further and say that rap/hip-hop (or whatever people are trying to call it these days to make it sound more credible) is nothing more than a celebration of debauchery, stupidity, and violence. it has zero amount of worth and should never be spoken of in same breath as music. [/b] This statement shows that you are only aware of a small fraction of hip-hop (obviously, the more mainstream) and you are basing your condemnation of hip-hop/rap as a whole off of the most negative side of the spectrum. Mainstream hip-hop is manufactured to be offensive, unintelligent, violent and vulgar. Gangsta rap (which is the portion of hip-hop that mainstreamity is centered upon) is one of the most dangerous things on this planet, if you ask me. Many of the artists, now, don't even know the meaning of the word "metaphor," and spit the most brainless, idiotic bullshit that can come up with, that they think makes them look like a baller or thug. That shit's filtered through the airwaves at a rate that, over time, changes the mainstream perspective on "good hip-hop" by siphoning away their options. There is more than enough positive, intellectual, relavent and thought-provoking hip-hop content out there, written by who no one could argue aren't litterary masters, to defend the genre. You're basically expossed to the worst death metal bands on the planet and saying "all rock sucks" because you aren't aware of the more melodious, masterful rock - to put a different spin on it.

[Indecent Exposure]

i tihnk oneironaut covered it but I too ften come across people who think hip-hop music is all about "bitches, cars, ice and guns" youve been listneing 2 far 2 much 50 cent far 2 much of the game far 2 much of this rubbish tht appeals to 13 yr old wanna be gangsters i suggest you have a more open mind itd do you a world of good and o nthe violence issue We learn to often about Martin Luther KIng in our schools, and deifntely not enoguh about Malcolm X pac was demonstrating this point fight back dont let people walk over you Im not saying i agree with everything he said i msaying ur extrmely close minded Imran

[ShYne123]

Ever listened 2 necro? Lol

[Geves]

me closeminded? nah. onei, your being awfully assuming. i've heard "underground" rap before and with a few exceptions, it's just as mindless as the trash that gets played on TV. j-live being one of the better ones out there, imo. regardless of how positive a rapper is in the majority of his music. you better believe he has a song out there about shooting someone, even if it's for entertainment value or not. this is the reason why "hip-hop" remains the running joke of music. @imran your being a million times more assuming than onei. maybe you'd care to write a book about me, since you obviously know more about me than i do. i don't listen to 50 cent, game, and other flavor of the month musicians. in fact the most mainstream thing i have in my entire music collection is pailhead. define a more open mind? if your suggesting that i open my mind up to EVERYTHING people tell me to listen to. i'd be a walking sack of buzzwords, political topics, and fake concern....kind of like your typical yuppie new yorker. + spell check would help, if you expect to be taken seriously. now i'm with the whole idea of free thinking, rising above the educational, economic, and social differences that are put on us by the media, government, and top 1% of this country/world. but according to your sig and last few posts i've seen, you seem to me like a typical weekend revolutionist. the fact that you quote karl marx AND geuvara, tells me that you've heard nothing of peaceful revolutions and are maybe a communist? violent revolutions only ussually lead to one thing - dictators maybe YOU should open your mind and embrace the teachings of mahatama ghandi, martin luther king jr, and jesus (not pushing religion on that one) they were all followers of non-violence and guess what. they all got something done. the first two more than the later. true revolution starts with education, rather than firearms. i'm sure we can agree on that. meh... but whatever. who cares. rap is 99.9% garbage. or am I the one being assuming? btw: EDIT: oh and in case you've never seen the movie in my sig.. i'm not totally agianst violent revolutions. i'm just really trying to press some buttons, to get some clarification on why you qouted those two in your sig and your views, ect..