Thread: This Quran burning fiasco

Actually this is just a particular instance of something everyone should ask themselves. Are we really free to believe what we desire? Or is there a definition of belief that distinguishes knowledge from ignorance? Is it in accordance with our function as mind, to associate words with nothing at all, or are we constrained by the very foundation of grammar to adhere to a convention--a convention established by a common environment of reality?

Even though the answer is obvious, people think contrary to fact. Then the issue resolves--are we free to be dysfunctional, or is dysfunction really slavery? Since mental dysfunction is factual, it is not a freedom, it is a slavery we cannot choose to leave.

Originally Posted by Philosopher8659

Actually this is just a particular instance of something everyone should ask themselves. Are we really free to believe what we desire? Or is there a definition of belief that distinguishes knowledge from ignorance? Is it in accordance with our function as mind, to associate words with nothing at all, or are we constrained by the very foundation of grammar to adhere to a convention--a convention established by a common environment of reality?

Even though the answer is obvious, people think contrary to fact. Then the issue resolves--are we free to be dysfunctional, or is dysfunction really slavery? Since mental dysfunction is factual, it is not a freedom, it is a slavery we cannot choose to leave.

Oh, Philosopher. Always talkin' that philosophy shtuff all over the place.

Originally Posted by Thatperson

Well they have the benefit of the fact that everyone is supposed to tip toe around them whilst they get away with murder (sometimes literally), it's been a problem in europe for decades and now the US is getting its first taste of islamification.

You're in denial if you don't think that muslims don't get harassed on a daily basis more often than... WASPs or whatever you are. How often do you hear about hate crimes against whites?

Uh oh...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/wo...n.html?_r=1&hp


And that's when they haven't even started burning the books yet!

I don't really blame the guy for burning the book.

I largely hold the media responsible, for going

HE'S BURNING A BOOK! HE'S BURNING A BOOK! ATTENTION ALL MUSLIMS, HE'S BURNING YOUR FUCKING BOOK! WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU GOING TO DO!?

And then they set up interviews in which they ask 'is he being irresponsible by putting the troops in danger'? Fuck off.

He said he was trying to send a message to radical Islam, which he planned to convey via the media... He knew how the media would react and welcomed the coverage.


The media will be the media. It's just a natural part of mass media to blow sensational stories out of proportion. Individuals should take that into account because I don't think the media will change anytime soon.

Of course, muslim's who get violent about the thing are really the most responsible as they are the only ones actually committing a crime. Why should blame not be placed on them more than anyone else? It is not as if "Well, muslim's will be muslims after all. Getting all violent about stuff is in their nature."Because the strong majority of them, while they may be getting angry, don't seem to be inciting riots and damaging property/people. The rest are fully capable of refraining from that kind of behavior as well.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

He said he was trying to send a message to radical Islam, which he planned to convey via the media... He knew how the media would react and welcomed the coverage.


The media will be the media. It's just a natural part of mass media to blow sensational stories out of proportion. Individuals should take that into account because I don't think the media will change anytime soon.

It's only natural if you assume they're going to act in an abhorrent manner. I don't see how that makes it better.

Report on it, fine. Run it as a headline for a week; that's blatant provocation for profit.

Originally Posted by Xei

It's only natural if you assume they're going to act in an abhorrent manner. I don't see how that makes it better.

Report on it, fine. Run it as a headline for a week; that's blatant provocation for profit.

But see, you are holding the media up to the standard of a journalistic entity, when it is actually part of the entertainment industry.

I understand the humour and metaphor there, but really, there is a difference, which is that media has a responsibility.

Originally Posted by Xei

I understand the humour and metaphor there, but really, there is a difference, which is that media has a responsibility.

No, you're right, it does. But the responsibility is to truth above anything else. Over-hyping stories and provocing unnecessarry hostilities is a douche move, but at least it isn't really a dishonest one.

This whole thing is the natural escalation of the manufactured controversy over the "Ground Zero" "Mosque" (neither at Ground Zero, nor a mosque). It was a non-issue in the city and the neighborhood for nearly a year that the construction plans have been approved and over two years the group has been using the site, until primaries and midterms were coming up and all of a sudden News Corp got a bug up their ass about it.

The Quran burning is part and parcel with the anti-Mosque xenophobia, and the way it all endangers our troops and our security in general is not so much about Muslims getting all "RAWR! KILLKILLKILL!" in immediate response to this nutjob. It's about us reinforcing Al Qaeda's message that we're the enemy of all Islam and will never accept them--that this is a holy war on both sides. The only way out of the War on Terror is to repair our relations with the Muslim world, so that we stand together against the terrorists and leave them without material support. Unfortunately, every time we take one step forward in this effort--such as Imam Rauf's outreach efforts for the State Department and, hell, building a community outreach center a couple blocks from Ground Zero--our own extremists drag us two steps back.

The guy has now cancelled the burning and is hoping that this 'gesture' will enable him to talk to the Mosque people.

This is so stupid on so many levels.

I didn't murder a guy's wife once as a gesture of peace; we're best friends now.

He's not hoping that the gesture will enable him to talk to the mosque people... he was planning to cancel it at the last minute all along (well, I mean, he's still hoping to talk to the mosque people, but he didn't cancel it as a way to get that -- he's been planning to not go through with i since the start of the whole thing).

It was both an exposé on the radicalism of certain elements of Islam, and also a sort of PR stunt for his church (well, that's just my opinion, but it seemed to have a element of that).

READ YOUR INTERNETS!

Florida pastor says his church will never burn the Koran - latimes.com

A Florida pastor says his church will "not today, not ever" burn a Koran, even if a mosque is built near ground zero.

He flew to New York and appeared on NBC's "Today" show. He says that his Gainesville, Fla., church's goal was "to expose that there is an element of Islam that is very dangerous and very radical." He tells NBC that "we have definitely accomplished that mission." He says no meeting is planned with the imam leading the center but he hopes one will take place. A "Burn a Koran Day" banner outside his church has been taken down.

I never really thought that a pastor, a type of person that normally evokes words like "compassion" and "kindness to all," and the follower of a religion which preaches to "Love thy enemy," would burn the holy book of another religion.

And I was right.





Makes me feel all fuzzy inside.

Faith in humanity restored, hope for the future of earth re-established.

Originally Posted by WakataDreamer

He's not hoping that the gesture will enable him to talk to the mosque people... he was planning to cancel it at the last minute all along (well, I mean, he's still hoping to talk to the mosque people, but he didn't cancel it as a way to get that -- he's been planning to not go through with i since the start of the whole thing).

It was both an exposé on the radicalism of certain elements of Islam, and also a sort of PR stunt for his church (well, that's just my opinion, but it seemed to have a element of that).

READ YOUR INTERNETS!

Florida pastor says his church will never burn the Koran - latimes.com

I never really thought that a pastor, a type of person that normally evokes words like "compassion" and "kindness to all," and the follower of a religion which preaches to "Love thy enemy," would burn the holy book of another religion.

And I was right.

Then I think you might be surprised at how many pastors are not the things you listed above. As a Christian person, I don't like it. But it is true.

I know that many aren't... okay, I didn't really know that he wouldn't, rather, I hoped that he wouldn't, because I like to think of true pastors as being like I described above.

I'm Christian too, but I believe that God spoke to Muhammad as well (which does not contradict Christian theology). I don't agree with the Qur'an's view that Jesus was only a prophet (I think he was God's son), but I believe that Muhammad was more than a nutjob in a turban.

Anyways, the whole Qur'an burning thing is over now, so we can stop worrying about it.

Also, this thread's point of existence may expire soon.... unless you guys have more to say regarding the truth behind the whole thing and the pastor's pre-planned decision.

I quite like how ThatPerson stepped out of the thread when we asked him to provide evidence of the legal system tip toeing around muslims. That is great.

I'd kinda like seeing a big bonfire of holy books. Throw 'em all in there: bibles, qur'ans ... and all the others. Would be kinda fun to see who was the most outraged. Too bad I'm against the burning of books as a general principle.

Originally Posted by khh

I'd kinda like seeing a big bonfire of holy books. Throw 'em all in there: bibles, qur'ans ... and all the others. Would be kinda fun to see who was the most outraged. Too bad I'm against the burning of books as a general principle.

Some Christian's are a little de-sensitized to the whole thing, others are more apathetic about their faith then other religions. I think you'd see the most outrage from Islam, Judaism, and Hinduism. People associate Busshism with Hinduism sometimes, forgetting how violent their radical group can get. I would definitely think their would be some violent demonstrations from extremist Muslims/Hindus. A few Jews as well, probably.

Books to burn?

1) Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, by S. LaBerge;
2) Genetic strains of F1 hybrid marijuana, by A.K. Fortis-Evan;
3) Phonetic discrepancies of Modern English, by Eva Ivor-Orre.

Well.. definitely number one..

Originally Posted by Oneiro

Books to burn?

1) Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, by S. LaBerge;
2) Genetic strains of F1 hybrid marijuana, by A.K. Fortis-Evan;
3) Phonetic discrepancies of Modern English, by Eva Ivor-Orre.

Well.. definitely number one..

Not got a sense of humour, spicman? I loved the "significant contribution" of your reply!

Originally Posted by Oneiro

Not got a sense of humour, spicman? I loved the "significant contribution" of your reply!

Haha. I was just joking. Surely, you have seen the full deck of magic the gathering necro cards frequently used on DV? This one happens to be my favorite and I don't know if it has been used on this site yet. Oh, and was spicman a typo or are you calling me a dumb mexican? Haha.

Bwaha! Oh yes, spockman, sorry for the ummmm.. typo! (Is a spic a mexican? Over here, it means any dodgy spiv-like character, or at least it used to when I was growing up! My deepest apologies to any passing mexicans!)