Thread: ABORTION: Where do you stand?

I voted no children/pro-choice, but that doesn't explain how I view the issue fully. Once a fetus is viable outside the womb I think the best choice would be to keep it alive. If unwanted, adoption would be the best. I have no qualms about abortion during early pregnancy, however.

No children, pro-choice. No woman should be forced to bear a child she doesn't want.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

I voted no children/pro-choice, but that doesn't explain how I view the issue fully. Once a fetus is viable outside the womb I think the best choice would be to keep it alive. If unwanted, adoption would be the best. I have no qualms about abortion during early pregnancy, however.

Alright. So what if I get pregnant and end up giving birth extremely early, let's say at about 20 weeks. Now, that "fetus" is certainly not viable outside of my womb, and even with medical intervention there's a large chance that it would die. Should I have the option of simply throwing it away, because it was not viable?

Originally Posted by Marvo

No children, pro-choice. No woman should be forced to bear a child she doesn't want.

Where do you get this opinion from? Should I be able to abort a baby at any stage of gestation simply because I do not want to bear it?

So, pro-life means you can't abort at any time during pregnancy, and pro-choice means you can abort at any time during pregnancy..?

I can't really place myself in either category without knowing where the line is.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Where do you get this opinion from? Should I be able to abort a baby at any stage of gestation simply because I do not want to bear it?

Every time you have a period, you are killing an unborn child through negligence (neglecting to have sperm enter your ovaries).

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Where do you get this opinion from? Should I be able to abort a baby at any stage of gestation simply because I do not want to bear it?

Yes. Unless the baby is literally about to fall out of your womb, I honestly think that a woman should be able to abort at nearly any stage. This has to do with how I watch human life of course. I think that murder is bad, if the victim has any value to other people and if the victim itself cares about its own life in a conscious, human manner. If not, I don't see why killing such an organism is bad.


vvv Spartiate put into words what I was trying to say, in a less cold manner.

Originally Posted by Xei

So, pro-life means you can't abort at any time during pregnancy, and pro-choice means you can abort at any time during pregnancy..?

I can't really place myself in either category without knowing where the line is.

In my opinion (please share with me yours if it differs from mine), Pro-Life means you do not abort a fetus at any time of pregnancy. The only exception to this that I can currently think of would be if it was an ectopic pregnancy, in which case the fetus would only be able to reach a certain stage of development and then die due to tube rupture and would also place the mother in extreme danger. Pro-Choice means women believe abortion is a valid choice to an unwanted pregnancy, although the gestational age of which a fetus should be able to be aborted seems to differ greatly in people's minds.

I'm OK with abortion at any time and under any circumstance, however if the reason is simply out of choice not to go through with raising a child, I would prefer it be done as early as possible.

Nothing is lost when you destroy a fetus, and you can make a new one any time. All that makes life precious and meaningful happens after we are born.

Originally Posted by Marvo

Yes. Unless the baby is literally about to fall out of your womb, I honestly think that a woman should be able to abort at nearly any stage. This has to do with how I watch human life of course. I think that murder is bad, if the victim has any value to other people and if the victim itself cares about its own life in a conscious, human manner. If not, I don't see why killing such an organism is bad.

I was 40 weeks pregnant with my daughter, and she gave no signs of being ready to be born. The doctors induced my labor because I was giving signs of developing pre-eclampsia. In you opinion, if I decided I did not want her at that 40 weeks and since she was still perfectly happy and content staying inside of me, should I have been able to tell a doctor to kill her?

Also, how in the world could you say that a baby has no value to other people? There are millions of people/couples in the world right now who would kill to have any baby that you decided you did not want to raise. Go find a woman who has been struggling with infertility, and ask her what the value of your unborn child is. I promise you she would tell you is it absolutely priceless.

Originally Posted by Marvo

Yes. Unless the baby is literally about to fall out of your womb, I honestly think that a woman should be able to abort at nearly any stage. This has to do with how I watch human life of course. I think that murder is bad, if the victim has any value to other people and if the victim itself cares about its own life in a conscious, human manner. If not, I don't see why killing such an organism is bad.

completely agree.

you will find little support on the pro-life end.

also just a bone I like picking
the implication when people say they are "pro-life" is that people that are for abortion are "pro-death," which is more than a little silly.

monsters, any response to the fact that you are letting future babies die whenever you fail to get pregnant?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I'm OK with abortion at any time and under any circumstance, however if the reason is simply out of choice not to go through with raising a child, I would prefer it be done as early as possible.

Nothing is lost when you destroy a fetus, and you can make a new one any time. All that makes life precious and meaningful happens after we are born.

Okay, so if I decide I do not want my "fetus" at 40 weeks gestation due to...let's say financial troubles, I have the right to kill it? How do you defend that from a moral, or even simply humane, standpoint?

Originally Posted by no-Name

completely agree.

you will find little support on the pro-life end.

also just a bone I like picking
the implication when people say they are "pro-life" is that people that are for abortion are "pro-death," which is more than a little silly.

That's cool, I'm not out to convert anyone. I've noticed this seems to be a very liberal group of people, which actually is the reason I wanted to make this poll in the first place. I am very interested in seeing how people defend being Pro-Choice.

Also, I've never said anyone was Pro-Death, and never will. It's pointless and argumentative.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

Alright. So what if I get pregnant and end up giving birth extremely early, let's say at about 20 weeks. Now, that "fetus" is certainly not viable outside of my womb, and even with medical intervention there's a large chance that it would die. Should I have the option of simply throwing it away, because it was not viable?

Yes.

I'll take this one

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

I was 40 weeks pregnant with my daughter, and she gave no signs of being ready to be born. The doctors induced my labor because I was giving signs of developing pre-eclampsia. In you opinion, if I decided I did not want her at that 40 weeks and since she was still perfectly happy and content staying inside of me, should I have been able to tell a doctor to kill her?

yup. that should be a right that everyone with a kid in them has, as well.
surely it shouldn't be the ideal circumstance. but no one should be forced to carry a baby they do not want, or cannot support.

Also, how in the world could you say that a baby has no value to other people? There are millions of people/couples in the world right now who would kill to have any baby that you decided you did not want to raise. Go find a woman who has been struggling with infertility, and ask her what the value of your unborn child is. I promise you she would tell you is it absolutely priceless.

adoption does the same thing.
and to me, a fetus has no value. it has no experience, and has done nothing. just being a potential human is not good enough.

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

I was 40 weeks pregnant with my daughter, and she gave no signs of being ready to be born. The doctors induced my labor because I was giving signs of developing pre-eclampsia. In you opinion, if I decided I did not want her at that 40 weeks and since she was still perfectly happy and content staying inside of me, should I have been able to tell a doctor to kill her?

Also, how in the world could you say that a baby has no value to other people? There are millions of people/couples in the world right now who would kill to have any baby that you decided you did not want to raise. Go find a woman who has been struggling with infertility, and ask her what the value of your unborn child is. I promise you she would tell you is it absolutely priceless.

I meant value, in the form of relations. Nobody knows the baby. The baby doesn't know anybody. Nobody else than the mother can realistically care about that baby, and if the mother does not want it, then she may have it aborted.

I'm not sure that I understand your point about infertile couples. Nearly all people on the planet are capable of producing babies. Are you saying that a couple's decision to not make any babies is bad? Or is it first bad when the couple accidentally gets pregnant and they terminate the fetus?

Originally Posted by Xei

monsters, any response to the fact that you are letting future babies die whenever you fail to get pregnant?

I am all for things running their natural course. If a child dies in the womb due to natural causes, whatever those may be, it is devestating and horrible, but that is just life. My problem comes in when women think that just because a child has not exited their vagina, they have no rights and no value.

That isn't what Xei said.

He was comparing Abortion to a woman's period, wherein the potential for a human life was lost.

Can you explain how deciding not to get pregnant when there is no fertilised egg in your body is letting things run their natural course, but deciding not to get pregnant when there is a fertilised egg in your body is not? Either nature includes human decisions or it doesn't. With no ill intent towards your trauma: the vast majority of people do not have pregnancy forced upon them by external events.

break it down now

Originally Posted by buriedmonsters

I am all for things running their natural course.

good thing you chose my favorite meaningless word! what makes something unnatural?
being "natural" is completely useless, as there are literally 0 (zero) unnatural things.

If a child dies in the womb due to natural causes, whatever those may be, it is devestating and horrible, but that is just life. My problem comes in when women think that just because a child has not exited their vagina, they have no rights and no value.

but they don't! they're not people, and shouldn't have been created in the first place, if they were to simply be dropped off or adopted. the mother does not want it.

I would actually argue that a child has no worth until it's alive for several months, but that's just my definition on life and how I classify humans.

One thing that really bugs me is the way we label both sides "pro-life" and "pro-choice" but that's a little off-topic so I won't go into a semi-rant.

During very early pregnancy, I don't really consider the fetus to be much more closer to a person than the tens or hundreds of millions of sperm cells that are released per ejaculation. A little while later, it's on par with an insect or a small fish in my eyes. I think I'd draw the line at 2 (maybe 3) months and say abortion's a no-go beyond that point. Before that, it's up to the family's, and ultimately, the mother's discretion.

It's not like anyone's going around having unprotected sex just so they can experience the thrill of abortion; no one enjoys having to go through with it. There's usually more to it then "I don't want a child at this point in time." Some women aren't able to go through with the pregnancy for various reasons - be they physical, mental, or emotional. For example, if the pregnancy compromises the health of the would-be mother, it wouldn't be very "pro-life" to force her to go through with labor. Pregnancy changes one's life completely, it's not as simple as popping out a kid after 9 months and then keeping it or giving it up for adoption, the before and after (regardless of the decision) is pretty dramatic. If you're young, the social stigma attached to teen pregnancy alone can be enough to get to you. Pregnancy also places a huge handicap on an individual, things they wanted or hoped to do in life may no longer be possible, certainly not during the pregnancy and possibly not even after.

There's a lot behind my stance on the matter but my Mom's bugging me about the dishes so I'll have to post the rest later if I remember.

Originally Posted by Marvo

I meant value, in the form of relations. Nobody knows the baby. The baby doesn't know anybody. Nobody else than the mother can realistically care about that baby, and if the mother does not want it, then she may have it aborted.

I'm not sure that I understand your point about infertile couples. Nearly all people on the planet are capable of producing babies. Are you saying that a couple's decision to not make any babies is bad? Or is it first bad when the couple accidentally gets pregnant and they terminate the fetus?

You should do some research on the percentage of couples right now in the U.S who are dealing with infertility. I personally know two couples who have been trying for 5+ years to have a child and would do anything to be able to have a baby. My point of bringing up infertility? If you do not want your baby, by all means you do not have to parent it. Give it to someone who wants it, there are tons of them out there.

So if no one knows you or loves you, you are worthless? What about all the homeless people out there who have been disowned by their family and who absolutely no one cares about? Should I be able to go kill them? Or what about the elderly, who have no children and living family? Should I be able to kill them?

Abortion should absolutely be legal. Your body, your choice.

I am also in favor of eugenics.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Yes.

So how do you justify that from a simple humane perspective?