Thread: NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina

I have known about what they did for a long time, and there is not much to say. It is disgusting and and unlawful. I believe they also had national guard there and stuff, doing similar things. They all basically became thugs.

If this is absolutely true and not exaggerated, it makes me feel very unsafe. It makes me want to hide a bunch of weapons somewhere "just in case".

But everyone is safer without guns. Right? That's what Bill Maher told me, so I know it's true.

The problem is that in the cities the gangs are fairly well armed. Plenty of people own their firearms specifically for home defense. Others are enthusiasts who still value the ability to defend themselves against equally armed thugs. When you're stripped of a simple right... One must wonder.

I read a few other articles that discussed the deployment of Army Reserve troops in the U.S., one of them claiming it was for peacekeeping purposes in the face of civil unrest. What are they waiting for that they should be expecting widespread civil unrest? And why has the secretary of defense called for the activation of 400,000 Army Reserve troops in 2009, to serve in domestic affairs? A buddy of mine in the Reserves told me that over half of the inactive reserves had been made active duty and that every one of these individuals were to be moved to an base out of their state of residence. What gives?

To play devil's advocate (just so you know)...

The 2nd amendment makes guns more available for everyone, including criminals. That's why the US has the highest per capita murder rate in the Western world.

I heard about this back when I was really into conspiracy theories and got really really upset about it.

Originally Posted by cmind

To play devil's advocate (just so you know)...

The 2nd amendment makes guns more available for everyone, including criminals. That's why the US has the highest per capita murder rate in the Western world.

That's really only part of the reason though, our entire culture creates the environment that makes people violent. If we legalized drugs, stopped fighting wars everywhere, had better schools, etc etc then we could have guns and not have all these problems. Guns are not the cause of the problem, which is what we should focus on.

Originally Posted by StonedApe

That's really only part of the reason though, our entire culture creates the environment that makes people violent. If we legalized drugs, stopped fighting wars everywhere, had better schools, etc etc then we could have guns and not have all these problems. Guns are not the cause of the problem, which is what we should focus on.

Other countries haven't legalized drugs, fight wars and have crummy schools but still don't touch the US' violent gun crime rate. "Gun culture", both the admiration for firearms and perceived necessity of owning one for personal defence, is an important reason for all the violence. Guns aren't treated with enough respect in the US, and it's just easier for a situation to escalate when there's a gun in every house.

I'd also like to point out that the US is probably the only developed country where the average civilian seriously considers owning a weapon designed to kill other people.

You missed the point of etc etc, there are many many reasons why we have such high rates of violence in this country. But there is a core reason behind this that permeates our culture. My point is that we need to deal with that, not just make laws that say you can't do this or that. We have to work on bettering our culture and communities, rather than just expecting the government to solve the problem. I think it's foolish to rely on a government that's trillions of dollars in debt(not to mention the fact that they don't even follow their own principles or policies as the video shows) to solve our problems.

Besides that, my point is not that we should all have guns, or that it's necessary, or that bad schools and drug laws are the only thing that cause violence. My point is that it's the entirety of what the US is that causes this violence. Most people here are violent and aggressive. That's the problem, not guns. It's possible to own a gun, for defense or for hunting, without being a part of the problem.

I'm all for spreading information on how it isn't necessary to own a gun, or showing them in a more appropriate light. I just don't think that the government should be allowed to forcibly take property from it's citizens unless those citizens have themselves acted violently towards others. We ought to educate others rather than forcing them to act a certain way, because force creates resistance, it creates more conflict, more violence, black markets, more gangs.

Originally Posted by StonedApe

Most people here are violent and aggressive. That's the problem, not guns.

My point is that guns ARE part of the reason that Americans are so violent. They aren't treated with enough respect and they're everywhere.

You guys will never win the debate by arguing that guns don't cause murders (argument from effect). It's impossible to know for sure either way. The only argument you can ever truly win with is the argument from morality; it's THEFT to take someone's property.

And I had my Bible and I had my gun.

And I knew I was safe.

Originally Posted by cmind

You guys will never win the debate by arguing that guns don't cause murders (argument from effect). It's impossible to know for sure either way. The only argument you can ever truly win with is the argument from morality; it's THEFT to take someone's property.

I was just talking about gun violence in the US in general. What happened in the video clearly seems wrong.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I was just talking about gun violence in the US in general. What happened in the video clearly seems wrong.

I'm not sure about this, but I think the law was on the side of the cops. Are you willing to admit that a law can be unjust?

Originally Posted by Spartiate

My point is that guns ARE part of the reason that Americans are so violent. They aren't treated with enough respect and they're everywhere.

I completely agree, I just don't think that that means they should be illegal.

Originally Posted by cmind

I'm not sure about this, but I think the law was on the side of the cops. Are you willing to admit that a law can be unjust?

I'm sure there's more to the story, but unless the people on tape were outright lying, I can't believe that the situation was serious enough to confiscate weapons and destroy them on the spot or not return them.

How just a law is depends on who you ask, everybody has an opinion.

Originally Posted by StonedApe

I completely agree, I just don't think that that means they should be illegal.

There can be intermediate measures. For instance, you can allow long guns and rifles for hunting. Pistols and automatic weapons can be restricted to registered gun clubs. Enforce firearm licenses, background checks and firearm safety classes. Do away with nonsense like concealed carry.

You're not allowed to have automatic weapons in the US, I think.

Automatic weapons are illegal, yes. Though I have seen them used in exclusive-access registered gun clubs.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

My point is that guns ARE part of the reason that Americans are so violent. They aren't treated with enough respect and they're everywhere.

I absolutely agree. I just moved away from North Carolina, but I knew multiple people who were shot, one was killed. Yet, I don't know anybody who was stabbed, and only a few who were beaten.
A multiple-shooting (with an automatic AK) occurred less than a block away from my house one night, yet I know of only one stabbing that ever occurred there. Shootings happened every three days or so, yet I hear of stabbings every two months at most.

I think the safety and the power people feel when they hold a gun and have somebody's life in their hands is much greater than that when they have to go fight them or stab them.

In general poverty increases crime and stuff. The united states is a large country and a huge range of people from the super rich to the very poor. So I think you do see more crime in poorer area's of the united states, and you will find there are a great number of countries who are far more violent than the US. There are very safe areas in the US as well, and I have never lived in a "dangerous" area my self. I have never personally known anyone who has been shot, nor had I ever had any friends of friends I have heard of being shot. Though I have heard people saying don't go down into the run down part of a city where gangs hang out at night and stuff though.

Also there are other issues that you need to factor into things. Like crimes that are prevented because of guns. Also some statistics involving guns are biased since they count criminals killed by lawful gun owners defending them self as gun related deaths.

Originally Posted by Alric

In general poverty increases crime and stuff. The united states is a large country and a huge range of people from the super rich to the very poor. So I think you do see more crime in poorer area's of the united states, and you will find there are a great number of countries who are far more violent than the US. There are very safe areas in the US as well, and I have never lived in a "dangerous" area my self. I have never personally known anyone who has been shot, nor had I ever had any friends of friends I have heard of being shot. Though I have heard people saying don't go down into the run down part of a city where gangs hang out at night and stuff though.

Also there are other issues that you need to factor into things. Like crimes that are prevented because of guns. Also some statistics involving guns are biased since they count criminals killed by lawful gun owners defending them self as gun related deaths.

The sad part is these people killing criminals often get felonies and spend several years in prison still. In that aspect the justice system sucks.



And I think by "dangerous areas" you mean Wal-Mart on Christmas Eve at 3AM?

Originally Posted by jarrhead

Automatic weapons are illegal, yes. Though I have seen them used in exclusive-access registered gun clubs.

No, it depends on the state. I think about 40 states allow fully automatic weapons with the proper registration. A few states make it very difficult. In California there's an assault weapons ban, so instead of having an automatic AK-47, the gun is modified to semi automatic (which doesn't make a difference, no one uses full auto if they know what they're doing) and has something called a bullet button attached which makes quick replacement of the magazine cumbersome. Also, you are only allowed clips up to a maximum of 10 rounds as opposed to the more standard 30 or 45. Again, not going to make a difference, they'll do the same job either way. Gun owners just need to understand that they should never, ever expect to be using it on another human being. Learn to use it, hunt with it, or let it collect dust. It's not a bad thing to have if your heart is in the right place and you only wish to be prepared for the worst case shit-hits-the-fan scenario. Those in Katrina who had to experience the temporary rule of violent gangs may have had loved ones to defend if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time. You never know. As Spart has said, guns aren't treated with enough respect.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I'm sure there's more to the story, but unless the people on tape were outright lying, I can't believe that the situation was serious enough to confiscate weapons and destroy them on the spot or not return them.

How just a law is depends on who you ask, everybody has an opinion.

Suppose a law were enacted that said exactly that -- all civilian firearms should be confiscated. What is YOUR opinion on that?

Originally Posted by cmind

Suppose a law were enacted that said exactly that -- all civilian firearms should be confiscated. What is YOUR opinion on that?

Would depend on the circumstances?

I'm not a fan of American gun laws as is, so I would prefer that they be reformed to ban/restrict/regulate firearms. Such a law would seem contradictory to current American constitutional rights, even if I don't agree with them...

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Would depend on the circumstances?

I'm not a fan of American gun laws as is, so I would prefer that they be reformed to ban/restrict/regulate firearms. Such a law would seem contradictory to current American constitutional rights, even if I don't agree with them...

It's like speaking to a very dumb brick wall.