Obamacare - WE ARE SCREWED

**juroara** · 10-08-2013 11:58 PM

I'm really surprised there isn't an obamacare thread when it was supposed to launch this week! Are you americans here not worried about it at all?

Simple fact is, ITS NOT AFFORDABLE.

Lets put it this way. I make just a few cents above min. wage. I work part time. Working part time and staying at a crappy paying job was my choice. I'm here at this low wage job for personal reasons and I don't really regret my choice.

That said, because I am part time naturally my employer does not cover me. So what do you think is the premium for someone in my situation? Its over $2000 a year. How they magically came up with that price is beyond me. What is the subsidy Obamacare offers me?........Like....zero. Apparently, my only saving grace is if my state enrolls me into Medicaid? But that's an OPTIONAL choice up to the state and completely out of my hands.

Anyways, low wages are by far the most common wage in america, the lower class and lower middle class americans MAKE UP THE MAJORITY. And if you calculate the Obamacare math its UNAFFORDABLE for the average american........So.....what problem did obamacare solve? Its not helping the uninsured, its just making it worse!

My mom is a health insurance agent and just recently got her license to represent Obamacare. She also agrees its completely unaffordable for the average American and it can seriously hurt small business.

But she also discovered something seriously disturbing when you sign up on the website. In order to enroll you have to sign away your computer privacy rights to just about every single government agency you can come up with. What the hell does monitoring your computer activity has to do with health care?

But by far the most disturbing thing of all - is we are being forced to pay a tax for being alive. Its no longer our economic choice whether or not we want health insurance, regardless of whether or not we can afford it. Republicans forcing the government to shut down to deter obamacare is the only smart thing they've done in years. But why the hell did congress ever let it pass to begin with?

Anyways, what the hell are we americans gonna do about it? Pay up and go hungry?

**Xei** · 10-09-2013 01:30 AM

That sounds retarded. If it's illegal not to get it, it should be charged according to your earnings, like a normal tax. Surely they're not making those on very low wages pay a mandatory fee? That sounds hard to believe, there must be some kind of relief you can get.

**DuB** · 10-10-2013 06:08 AM

Juroara is opposed to Obamacare? I didn't see that one coming.

**Alric** · 10-10-2013 06:49 AM

I have heard a lot of conflicting reports, as a lot of people say it is cheaper, and a lot say it is more expensive. Since there is supposed to be a lot of options, I think it probably depends greatly on what kind of plan you end up selecting.

**Carabas** · 10-10-2013 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by juroara

But she also discovered something seriously disturbing when you sign up on the website. In order to enroll you have to sign away your computer privacy rights to just about every single government agency you can come up with. What the hell does monitoring your computer activity has to do with health care?

It sounds like maybe she just misunderstood the terms and conditions. Is this the part you're talking about?

Terms & Conditions

So that HealthCare.gov remains accurate and available to you and all other visitors, we monitor network traffic to identify unauthorized attempts to upload or change information or otherwise cause damage to the web service. Use of this system constitutes consent to such monitoring and auditing. Unauthorized attempts to upload information and/or change information on this web site are strictly prohibited and are subject to prosecution under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986 and Title 18 U.S.C. Sec.1001 and 1030.

To continue, you must accept the terms and conditions. If you decline, your login will automatically be cancelled.

That's the message that pops up when you enroll. They're just letting you know they monitor the network traffic on their site. They're not snooping around your computer.

Anyway - you know there are exemptions based on income, right? If buying health insurance would cost you more than 8% of your income, you're not required to buy it, you're exempt from the fee.

For me, ACA's made health care more affordable, so I'm pretty pleased with it.

**TimeDragon97** · 10-10-2013 11:06 AM

I really have no actual opinion on this because I don't know jack about economics and things like that. I've heard people say it's affordable. I've heard people say it's not affordable. I really don't know what to think.

**acatalephobic** · 10-10-2013 03:43 PM

Another thing that sucks is that because companies are now having to incorporate the cost of insurance into their long-term plan, the result I've seen so far has been to reduce all employees to part time hours or less.

That has been my experience at least. In the ever-growing but increasingly ridiculous field of retail! Having been at my job for a few years now I am allowed to continue at fulltime if I wish to, but any new hires get 20hrs or less.

So now, even people willing to work multiple part time jobs with no benefits for crap wage-because that's all that is available-just to afford the basics of living (which shows no sign of slowing, unlike the the amount of work it takes to get there) can ALSO be referred to as "extra weight on the system".

Because that seems so useful and productive to do.

Did I mention that I know more than one individual with a Master's Degree that can't find a job?

Thank god I already put in for vacation, but now I get to spend it wondering and worrying about why my Father has been unable to get insurance, even up until a week before being able to apply for any government aid...even though he's worked so hard at so many jobs his entire life just to be able to afford the luxury of getting to the doctor...after my Mom, and my Sister, and Me.

There is a big part of me that wants it to happen for him, and lots of other good people that deserve better.

Basically I don't know how to feel about it right now.
.

**Xei** · 10-10-2013 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Carabas

Anyway - you know there are exemptions based on income, right? If buying health insurance would cost you more than 8% of your income, you're not required to buy it, you're exempt from the fee.

So juroara was just spouting ignorant, nonsensical scare stories again, cool. Thanks for being the only person in this thread so far who could actually explain the bill.

**TheForgotten** · 10-10-2013 04:25 PM

The Affordable Healthcare Act ensures the masses have access to health care. It's not a freebie. YOU might not require it, but it's not meant to serve the individual.

For some people, one bout of cancer can ruin them financially. Some people get a good deal out of it (those who are sick, obviously) and for others they're left short changed. However, since we don't know who will get sick, when, and to what degree, the best way to resolve access to healthcare is to have everyone (save the exemptions) be required to pay.

Why?

Because when people show up at the ER or receive any other medical service and CAN'T/WON'T/DON'T pay their bill, others are forced to pick up the tab. Eventually someone pays.

I don't think the bill is perfect by a long shot, but it's certainly moving human services in a good direction.

**juroara** · 10-10-2013 04:44 PM

So you're okay with the government deciding what the premiums should be? Mandating that all private health insurances follow those premiums? (no free market, its all the same) Premiums that are on average twice to three times higher than they were prior? How is that the solution? These families literally don't have the money.

And for not having the money for premiums that have magically doubled because the government mandates it so, they are going to be penalized. The penalization will show up during taxes and the IRS will be on their ass.

This is NOT the universal healthcare system that democrats wanted.

**juroara** · 10-10-2013 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by Carabas

It sounds like maybe she just misunderstood the terms and conditions. Is this the part you're talking about?

Terms & Conditions

So that HealthCare.gov remains accurate and available to you and all other visitors, we monitor network traffic to identify unauthorized attempts to upload or change information or otherwise cause damage to the web service. Use of this system constitutes consent to such monitoring and auditing. Unauthorized attempts to upload information and/or change information on this web site are strictly prohibited and are subject to prosecution under the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act of 1986 and Title 18 U.S.C. Sec.1001 and 1030.

To continue, you must accept the terms and conditions. If you decline, your login will automatically be cancelled.

That's the message that pops up when you enroll. They're just letting you know they monitor the network traffic on their site. They're not snooping around your computer.

I remember seeing something different, but im not interested in signing up so i don't wanna dig through the site. But I like how trusting you are of our government, as if they've never been caught snooping illegally on citizens.

Anyway - you know there are exemptions based on income, right? If buying health insurance would cost you more than 8% of your income, you're not required to buy it, you're exempt from the fee.

I forgot to make a post on that. But the math isn't adding up based on the accounts I've heard of ($200 a month suddenly jumping to $500). Even just 7% of someones income is a lot if they don't have the available money to begin with. These prices are still hitting people who are at about 15k a year. That's lower middle class. That's not even middle class. (my friend makes about 15k and will have to pay at least $150)

Even if these prices are CHEAPER in comparison to mainstream health insurance, its MANDATORY to pay up. That doesn't bother any of you? Its no longer a choice?

Also, isn't a new problem being created? Before having a higher income meant more available money. Now at some point its actually detrimental to seek out a higher income. At some point that $150 required payment is actually more like $500 a month. If you don't want to fork over $500 a month for some mandatory being alive fee, your solution is to get a cheaper job? Go part time?

That's how small businesses feel.

Also, the people who are exempted as I understand are simply going to be lumped into medicare/medicaid?

My city is a min. wage fest, so that's like 50% of my city easy. That's a bubble that will unfortunately burst. That money definitely has to come from some where, but taking it from the lower middle class and middle class who literally can't afford it isn't the answer either.

If the government is dead set on making healthcare affordable, why haven't they looked at the luxurious fees of hospital costs? 5 star hotels are cheaper than a hospital bed.

Why haven't they looked at the luxurious price of education and doctorates? Why haven't they asked if charging interest on top of interest on top of interest on top of interest for education is morally sound? Its all connected in this giant mess.

For me, ACA's made health care more affordable, so I'm pretty pleased with it.

I wish I could be pleased with it.

Smokers have to pay 150% of the price. What? Why? I don't smoke but, that's just wrong.
And if you suddenly get a bonus at the end of the year making your obamacare fees incorrect, what a headache.

And why is BIG BUSINESS being exempted from implenting obamacare until what, 2015? When big business can afford it, why are they exempt? You think this plan is for the little people?

This entire plan "force people to purchase private healthcare at increased fees" sounds like big business lobbied and screwed the shit out of the dream of a real universal healthcare system.

**TimeDragon97** · 10-10-2013 07:32 PM

We already know that the plan isn't perfect and that it is by no means true universal healthcare. Everyone knows that.

**TheForgotten** · 10-10-2013 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by juroara

So you're okay with the government deciding what the premiums should be? Mandating that all private health insurances follow those premiums? (no free market, its all the same) Premiums that are on average twice to three times higher than they were prior? How is that the solution? These families literally don't have the money.

There isn't only one plan available. That's not to say all plans will please everyone either. There are some people who are considered uninsurable because of their health history. Without Obamacare some of those people would never be able to get treated because they simply couldn't afford it. That isn't fair either.

For some people, they're now paying more. For others, they're paying a lot less. Every family/person has a budget, many of which live beyond their means. What is 'affordable' is a very subjective term. Some just aren't long term planners and consequently only want to act when there's an issue. That isn't a solution, that's a band-aid.

Originally Posted by juroara

And for not having the money for premiums that have magically doubled because the government mandates it so, they are going to be penalized. The penalization will show up during taxes and the IRS will be on their ass.

Of course they'll be penalized. If it's required to have insurance and someone doesn't pay, why has everyone else paid? If that were the case, why even bother making it mandatory? We could simply go back to the other method of healthcare and just tell those who unfortunately draw the short straw to suck it.

**Carabas** · 10-10-2013 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by juroara

Even just 7% of someones income is a lot if they don't have the available money to begin with. These prices are still hitting people who are at about 15k a year. That's lower middle class. That's not even middle class. (my friend makes about 15k and will have to pay at least $150)

Even if these prices are CHEAPER in comparison to mainstream health insurance, its MANDATORY to pay up. That doesn't bother any of you? Its no longer a choice?

Actually, your friend does have a choice. $150 a month is more than 8% of a 15k income. Unless there's a $100/month plan available, your friend qualifies for an exemption from the fee. They don't have to buy health insurance if they don't want to.