Although this discussion has seemed to be milked to it's fullest extent I feel it could go on.
It is two sided. Not much will transpire from that.

Originally posted by mongreloctopus
This argument IS totally fruitless--to be interested in an argument, I have to be learning something new or opening my eyes to a new perspective. I've heard all of this many times before during the undergraduate process--thus my quest for something new... but thanks anyway.

What would make this a learning curve.
What do you actually want from this topic mongreloctopus? Aside from pointing who why OR what to blame.
What can change to make things different
A societies change of curriculum maybe?
More funded research?