Thread: The (evolutionairy) purpose of dreams.

That's actually one of the leading theories. Dreams happen as the brain does some routine maintenance during the night. Strengthening some connections, destroying others.

The result is a buch of random crap that your brain is forced to do what it does best, interpret.

so, lucidity aids or hinders this vital process according to this theory ?

(omg, a serious reply to something - that makes, like, 3 in total)

Originally posted by bradybaker
That's actually one of the leading theories. Dreams happen as the brain does some routine maintenance during the night. Strengthening some connections, destroying others.

The result is a buch of random crap that your brain is forced to do what it does best, interpret.

Oh, it's the leading theory? Hmmm might have read that somewhere. Well now it is MY theory too, I stole it!!!1!!. Nah, but some people think dreams have a 'higher meaning', or maybe someone could think dreams are like a training simulator for actions... but that is bullshit, not like your motoric-functions would get better... but people could think it

And yeah ynot... perhaps LDing is bad for you!!1!!1 :0 nah, just way to many aspects are still utterly Random

Originally posted by Neruo


Nah, but some people think dreams have a 'higher meaning', or maybe someone could think dreams are like a training simulator for actions... but that is bullshit,

Bull? Perhaps... Shit? Perhaps not!

"I choose to belive what I was programed to belive!"

Some dreams might have more meaning then others... A dream that makes me feel good or help me out with a decision I have been stressing over or whatever would have a "higher" meaning for me. If that is a message from the god of Twinkies or just my bran running a defrag I dont realy care. What matters are the results 8)

But now you are talking about this stuff in the wrong forum mon cheri

Originally posted by Neruo
Nah, but some people think dreams have a 'higher meaning'

Yeah, quacks.

As for LDing, it's still pretty myterious. I've been meaning to talk to one of my psych profs about it, haven't gotten around to it though...

Originally posted by Neruo

not like your motoric-functions would get better.

i thought mr laberge pointed out that if you practice stuff in lucid dreams, it actually strengthens the neural pathways for doing that specific action...so it would make your brain better at controlling your muscles, without strengthening your muscles at all.

I wonder if never having a meaningful dream is like being colour blind?

Originally posted by bradybaker+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bradybaker)</div>

Yeah, quacks.
..[/b]

quack! 8)

<!--QuoteBegin-Asclepius
I wonder if never having a meaningful dream is like being colour blind?

I can understand if people who never had dreams like that would doubt they existed... You dont need faith in anything to get that kind of dreams... Just putt down your "barriers" and be open. Or they do get that kind of dreams and just dont like the idea that there might be something more to it then we understand at the moment... People fear the unknown. But I also agree that some people over mystify. There are all kinds... And thats the way it should be

The structure of the chemical benzene was revealed in a dream to the German chemist F.A. Keule in 1890

did this dream which resulted in a tangible contribution to "higher learning" come from a higher source? who can say. its results are undeniable though.

the same holds true for my own dreams. many are obviously just mental debris sorting itself out. but i have had dreams both lucid and non-lucid where a concept i had been stuck on suddenly became clear in a dream, as if an invisible hand placed the conceptual components into a way which made sense, and which "I" would never have thought of in waking consciousness. and almost all of these dreams had to do with psychological and spiritual real-izations.

one's 'higher self' is a 'higher source". one's full manifestation is higher than a laziness induced charade of unfulfilled potential.

like modern dream research suggests though...dreaming likely strengthens pathways that are used...if one doesn't expose themselves to meaningfulness (or a search for meaning) during waking hours, it is unlikely they will have meaningful dreams.

"Again the atoms were juggling before my eyes…my mind's eye, sharpened by repeated sights of a similar kind., could now distinguish larger structures of different forms and in long chains, many of them close together; everything was moving in a snake-like and twisting manner. Suddenly…one of the snakes got hold of its own tail and the whole structure was mockingly twisting in front of my eyes. As if struck by lightning, I awoke…Let us learn to dream, gentlemen, and then we may perhaps find the truth." F.A. Keule, as reported during a convention, 1890

Originally posted by Asclepius
I wonder if never having a meaningful dream is like being colour blind?

I wonder if not a having a basic understanding of the physical world makes it hard to function properly as a human being.

Originally posted by bradybaker

I wonder if not a having a basic understanding of the physical world makes it hard to function properly as a human being.

i wonder if it's possible to have both a basic (or in depth) understanding of the physical world and meaningful dreams...

Define "meaningful". It seems to be used here as indicative of something paranormal or supernatural, but dreams can be meaningful in the dictionary sense of "significant" without requiring some sort of higher source. Dreams which reflect our own daily behavior or play upon important waking events can certainly offer significant and meaningful insight into our lives by providing in a seemingly objective scenario a variation or even a reenactment of very subjective experiences. This "externalization" offers the opportunity to view ourselves and our behavior from a different perspective, and certainly, if such opportunities are taken seriously, they can allow for a meaningful illumination of our own motivations and internal workings. Sometimes we see most clearly through a mirror.

Also, with regards to seemingly spontaneous moments of insight, besides the occasional dream, the shower is a great place for Eurkas. Just remember that, unlike in Archimede's time, public nudity is generally unacceptable, and one should wrap oneself in a towel before jubilantly exiting the bathroom.

Originally posted by mongreloctopus


i thought mr laberge pointed out that if you practice stuff in lucid dreams, it actually strengthens the neural pathways for doing that specific action...so it would make your brain better at controlling your muscles, without strengthening your muscles at all.

Is that true? Well maybe you could train things in your brain. But since everything is so different in dreams, including your body, it doesn't seem like usefull. I mean with 3 arms I can juggle, not with 2 To bad I don't have 3 arms in real life ^__^

Originally posted by Raz


Bull? Perhaps... Shit? Perhaps not!

"I choose to belive what I was programed to belive!"

Some dreams might have more meaning then others... A dream that makes me feel good or help me out with a decision I have been stressing over or whatever would have a "higher" meaning for me. If that is a message from the god of Twinkies or just my bran running a defrag I dont realy care. What matters are the results 8)

But now you are talking about this stuff in the wrong forum mon cheri

Hmmmm, well maybe your subconsious bombs you with random stuff, but 'for a reason'. However, nightmares only cause unlogical phobia's, so I don't think all dreams are that 'usefull'...

Originally posted by Neruo


Hmmmm, well maybe your subconsious bombs you with random stuff, but 'for a reason'. However, nightmares only cause unlogical phobia's, so I don't think all dreams are that 'usefull'...

That's not true. Nightmares can be fantastic learning experiences. They can help people overcome fears, or help people realise that there is something wrong with their life in the first place. I'm not suggesting all dreams are necessarily meaningful, just that even some nightmares can be of some use in my opinion.

I think any dream can be turned into a lesson though. Often they're so abstract and abnormal, that it's not too hard to try and come up with some theory that fits. Whether or not a dream was profound or not is up to the dreamer. I think it's great if people can see lessons in their dreams and try to grow because of it, regardless of whether there is really any message from some higher source or not.

Like others have said, i do think it's possible to learn in dreams and become productive. I just posted something in another section of the board about somebody who wrote an entire song during their dreams. As for dreams actually existing for a purpose, i've never even thought about it really. I couldn't see any reason why they couldn't be important though. Maybe we just haven't learned how to harness their power properly yet, or rather we've forgotten? Perhaps if we could life would change for the better.

ok i don't know if these were said yet but...

i've heard several evolution related theories on dreams.

one being that it subconsciously trains the dreamer to better handle survival. ie. you have a dream that you're running from a lion. so in real life you're calmer and more clear-minded while being chased by a lion than you would have without the dream.

i don't really buy this one.

another theory i've heard is that it breaks up your night. say you live if a heard/pack/troop and you're all sleeping. well hopefully after experiencing REM each of you will regain consciousness for a brief period before falling back to sleep. this could help to make the heard/pack/troop more aware of predators in the night.

i faintly remember a couple others.

Originally posted by Neruo


Is that true? Well maybe you could train things in your brain. But since everything is so different in dreams, including your body, it doesn't seem like usefull. *I mean with 3 arms I can juggle, not with 2 * To bad I don't have 3 arms in real life ^__^

I dunno... I have composed and written songs in my dreams, with perfect recall on awakening. The (late) great Dave Carter woke one morning with the incredible "Gentle Arms of Eden" complete and ready to go. I have (not lucidly) "improvised" in new ways in my sleep that translated directly to my playing.

I suppose that if I became lucid and added an additional ten fingers to my left hand while practicing, the neurological connections wouldn't have much meaning in RL... might even get in the way. But so long as I'm going through the motions with my normal equipment, it does seem to help - and real creativity seems to come out of many people's dreams.

By the way - when I am preparing for performance, I often go through passages and difficult spots mentally, over and over. It makes a huge difference.

Originally posted by pj


I dunno... I have composed and written songs in my dreams, with perfect recall on awakening. *The (late) great Dave Carter woke one morning with the incredible "Gentle Arms of Eden" complete and ready to go. *I have (not lucidly) "improvised" in new ways in my sleep that translated directly to my playing.

john milton claimed to have wrote paradise lost from memories of the night before. he of course claimed that this was an angel speaking through him or something to that effect.

Originally posted by pj


I dunno... I have composed and written songs in my dreams, with perfect recall on awakening. *The (late) great Dave Carter woke one morning with the incredible "Gentle Arms of Eden" complete and ready to go. *I have (not lucidly) "improvised" in new ways in my sleep that translated directly to my playing.

I suppose that if I became lucid and added an additional ten fingers to my left hand while practicing, the neurological connections wouldn't have much meaning in RL... might even get in the way. *But so long as I'm going through the motions with my normal equipment, it does seem to help - and real creativity seems to come out of many people's dreams. *

By the way - when I am preparing for performance, I often go through passages and difficult spots mentally, over and over. *It makes a huge difference.

well yeah I do think you could come up with great scripts, great music, great ideas in dreams. however you can't learn to ride a bicycle in a dream I think.

Originally posted by Neruo


well yeah I do think you could come up with great scripts, great music, great ideas in dreams. however you can't learn to ride a bicycle in a dream I think.

Learn to... no. Improve though? Yes, I believe you could, in terms of improving how you think and react while riding.

The difference is you have already established the neuro paths required for the basic physical act. When you ride in your dreams, then, your brain is using a map from RL... reinforcing and refining it.

Originally posted by pj


Learn to... no. *Improve though? *Yes, I believe you could, in terms of improving how you think and react while riding.

The difference is you have already established the neuro paths required for the basic physical act. *When you ride in your dreams, then, your brain is using a map from RL... reinforcing and refining it.

Hmmm, yes quite intresting though. However would your mind re-create real life real enough to learn anything from it? I mean last time I was on a bicycle in a dream my legs were like all wistest though the frame, yet I went forward ^__^

Originally posted by Neruo


Hmmm, yes quite intresting though. However would your mind re-create real life real enough to learn anything from it? I mean last time I was on a bicycle in a dream my legs were like all wistest though the frame, yet I went forward ^__^

Ok... let me rephrase that:

Your brain COULD be using a map from RL, and it would thus be POSSIBLE to learn something useful by doing it in your dream.

Your mileage may vary, of course! You were apparently riding a sort of bicycle that didn't require the normal motions and reflexes, developing exquisite skills at that. Next time you encounter it in your dreams, you should notice an improvement.

Or not.

Originally posted by pj


Ok... let me rephrase that:

Your brain COULD be using a map from RL, and it would thus be POSSIBLE to learn something useful by doing it in your dream.

Your mileage may vary, of course! *You were apparently riding a sort of bicycle that didn't require the normal motions and reflexes, developing exquisite skills at that. *Next time you encounter it in your dreams, you should notice an improvement.

Or not.

yeah, nicely put: Everything is possible in dreams. Everything, aslong as it's in the dream reality. However, dream reality is made by a mind, and it's not a perfect computer. My theory on why light switches don't work in dreams is that your mind just can't calculate all the ambient lighting. A dream is like a doom 1 game, real life is quake.

Only both with WAY better grapics.

The point: The lact of any solidy in dreams would make it really hard to create and keep a bicycle, and ride it, and maintain the same laws of physics and such as in real life.