Thread: No Sympathy for Suicide

Yeah, the thread has definitely generated some unique views, among other things. Perhaps it would be a good idea to focus the topic a little bit?

Perhaps instead of sympathy for suicides in general, we could focus on:

Sympathy for suicide's families?

This of coarse, would generate a more positive environment as well, considering the personal feelings involved in the original topic of this thread, perhaps people are too devoted to thier own views, no that that's bad, to do more than list thier opinion. Since arguing the topic has only produced either agreement or stark vindiction. It is a personal thing, suicide.

Any suggestions?

well, is there anyone who doesn't sympathize for suicides' families or is opposed to it?

Originally posted by Lucifer Sam

Sympathy for suicide's families?

This of coarse, would generate a more positive environment as well, considering the personal feelings involved in the original topic of this thread, perhaps people are too devoted to thier own views, no that that's bad, to do more than list thier opinion. Since arguing the topic has only produced either agreement or stark vindiction. It is a personal thing, suicide.

Any suggestions?

Silly, everyone feels bad for the families who go through that. That's kinda boring, no offense.

Okay, agin, I think this is a topic which deserves and needs more discussion. So, in the interests of that, here's another question to think about:

Should the actual cause of a person's suicide change the way we feel about that person, with regards to sympathy, etc? For instance, let's take three possible situations:

1) An emotionally and mentally sound individual makes a careful weighing-up of various options, and makes a conscious and informed choice to end his life. (This would include, potentially, a situation that Leo Volont was earlier discussing, I believe...?)

2) A person who is NORMALLY emotionally and mentally sound, though various events and happenings in his or her life, is brought to the point where he/she is contemplating suicide as a viable alternative, possibly as a result of a period of depression as a result of those events and happenings in his/her life...

3) A person who has some sort of natural emotional/neurological imbalance or psychological problem, as a result of that problem and other possible contributing factors from his/her life, induces a period of depression worse than what is normal for that person, in which he.she either chooses to commit suicide, or does so as a result of some sort of involuntary psychotic break.

I believe these to be very different situations and deserving of individual consideration. So, what I ask, is should we feel differently towards these three different situations? If so, how?

Another question to ponder, is should it change the way we feel if the act of suicide is committed either (at least to some extent) voluntarily, or involuntarily due to a psychotic break or other similar cause? IS there such a thing as an involuntary commission of suicide???

I think that it needs to be pointed out that our principles are born by the choices we go making about the subjectivity of our past over the present, and the futuristic objectivity; by our principles come our understandment of everything, and with it comes our selfish choices, that born to identify with our feelings, all of our feelings are selfish and grips into pain or exitment. So there for in any case that a feeling is subdue, your opinion comes thru this process, and what you feel is selfish in any case, so, in order to feel sympathy for someone, in a case of suicide, you have to analyse that persons principles of life and aply some understandment from yours, there for it will come your opinion/choice. And I think this needs to be pointed out because most people here ain't thinking the subject in a goal of understandment of how your emotion should derive, as from the question indeed established.

I dont see any need to feel sympathy as the fact is if you commit suicide you have gotten the happiness you seek and so why feel pity for people who have gone and succeeded in desposing themselves of their pain.
I feel alot more respect for them because I have learned personally that it isnt easy to kill yourself, you may not care if you live and have a will of iron because your body will usually stop you, another complexity in the amazingly complex shell we have.
Two of my friends killed themselves and I feel happy for them for their lives were awful and they wanted nothing more but to die, we all have to die someday, wether sooner or later, life is just a detour from the happiness of death, life is a secodn but death is eternal people can say that its stupid but in a way its not, for living you struggle on with the pain of life and finally die, its unescapable, yet with death you are freed from all constraint.

Originally posted by darklordofall
I dont see any need to feel sympathy as the fact is if you commit suicide you have gotten the happiness you seek and so why feel pity for people who have gone and succeeded in desposing *themselves of their pain.

You make a good point. To feel sympathy for the actual act of suicide is what is in question.
But I do not think I would call it the happiness they seek. I am sure they would choose an alternative given the choice of how they feel. A liberation from the despair is what they are after, I would guess in most cases.
But one should feel sympathy towards anyone who feels bad enough to take their own life.
Unless their act of suicide is bound by religion.

Originally posted by bradybaker
I'm surprised to say that agree 100% with wombing.

But I would add a key point.

No rational individual is capable of committing suicide. Even if they are completely rational and sane up until the moment they pull the trigger, they cannot commit the act unless in a state of temporary insanity.

Committing the act is not a 'choice' that one makes in the conventional sense of the word, its only possible when the person is mentally unstable--obviously this isn't their fault.

So I think that this alone would negate the 'selfishness' of the act.

First of all, we would have to define the meaning of “sane”. However, I feel that conversation is better fit for the philosophy forum. However, if we are to go into the argument that those who participate in it are irrational, you will find in actual records that this is actually contrary to the truth. It’s been found that gifted teenagers and intellectuals of all ages are more susceptible to suicide and the general population. It was actually a somewhat bizarre feeling that passed when the author of psychology and biology book on suicide noted that a large amount of the authors of her references, respectable members of the scientific community, actually committed suicide themselves.

Little is known of why intellectuals are more prone to suicide than the general population though it is believed by many that due to their larger level of insight into society and general philosophy, they are more easily able to see the more depressing consequences of existence. As well, it has been found that suicide itself seems to require a large amount of intellect and rational thought. Among the species that actually commit suicide are the most intelligent; dolphins and humans are a few of the only organisms known to kill themselves.

In truth, suicide is often a logical escape from a situation and is rarely an impulsive act. Psychopaths after all, do not have a particularly large rate of suicide though they are impulsive by nature and often use suicide threats to get what they want (rarely carried out). In most cases, suicide often involves a process ranging through years of evaluation of the situation and the most common cases of suicides are performed by those that not only see no purpose in their existence (the jobless, disabled, and the old) but also see themselves as a strain on their families. In past times, this could rationally be seen as a way to better the situation of the overall tribe. I suppose this could metaphorically be seen as a drone bee sacrificing its life for the well being of the hive. Indeed, a common way to curb suicide and other disorders is to see to it that suspects are employed in a job to give them a sense of purpose. Lastly, the proposal that a logically individual can instantaneously become irrational at the moment of suicide is simply absurd.

What I have sympathy for is the person whose life is such that the option of suicide seems to them to be the only bearable choice. Whether it's because they wish to avoid the long drawn-out pain of terminal cancer, or they feel they are going crazy and see no path back to sanity, or they feel that the life choices they feel capable of making are so utterly depressing that death would be preferable, it's the life circumstances which bring on the choice to commit suicide which draws my sympathy. For some people suicide is truly their last resort, the last choice they can make and feel ok about.

For those of us who have attempted suicide as a call for help, I'm thankful that people are there to help make life changes that don't leave suicide as the only attractive option. Those who are successful in a suicide attempt may be calling for help as well. . .

Maybe they'll get it in the next life.

I greatly value my life, I can't see how I could ever bring myself to killing me. I can't see how anyone can. I have had an easy life though so I cant honestly say I know what I would do in certent situations, but I would like to think that I will remain the way I am, feel the same way about things . Although it is harsh to say I think suicide is for the weak. For people who have a weak threshhold on life when things are too much they break, but they are not temporaraly insane although they might not be in the right state of mind it would be slowly building up in them even if they dont really know it. Too much of any emotion, anger or frustration, sadness or depresion, apathy- lack of emotion I think can triger suicide. So maybe we all have our limits but the weak cant handle as much or they cant cope with it as well.

The only time I ever agree with suicide is when your going to die of some painful and/or crippling death. Other than that I don't dislike the Idea. I friend of mine tried to commit suicide because a girl left him. Which I think is a stupid reason. If it was me I would of got stoned and pissed and then got on with my life the next day. Sorted.
Now its not like I don't have sympathy for people with depression... But I honestly believe that some times (NOT always) people just need a kick up the arse to sort themselves out.

Don't necro post.