Freemasons

[kage]

i don't know if this belongs here in the lounge, or in extended, or what, so i'll start it in the lounge, and the mods can move it as needs be. i have some friends who are Freemasons. they say it's not really a "secret society" as it is a "society with secrets." secrets like handshakes, passwords, etc. so i'm curious - are there any Freemasons here on DV? and what does everybody think of the Freemasons?

[bobvilax2000]

I used to work in the kitchen of a community owned by the Masons. During my time working there I noticed a few things about the society. They have a lot of money and do a lot of good for the community, but they have a lot of secrets as well. I remember them having meeting in the middle of the night. I honestly don't know much about them, not being a member. I know that you have to have some belief in a highr power, whatever it is to you. Hasn’t every president except for Clinton and Bush Jr. been Masons? - -Barrett

[kage]

Originally posted by bobvilax2000 I know that you have to have some belief in a highr power, whatever it is to you. Hasn’t every president except for Clinton and Bush Jr. been Masons? yes, a belief in a higher power is required. as far as i know, all the requirements for being a Mason are you have to be male, you have to have belief in some sort of higher power, you have to be 21 or older, and you have to have two Masons vouch for you. as for the presidents thing, i don't know if all except for clinton and bush 2 have been Masons, but i do know that quite a few have. and for the mormons around here, many of the early church presidents were Masons.

[MSG]

what do the freemasons do? are they like carpenters?

[kage]

Originally posted by pOOp what do the freemasons do? are they like carpenters? sort of, i think. AFAIK, they use various tools and concepts from stonemasonry (the art of building shit) as symbolic representations of moral lessons or something. i suppose carpenters probably use some of the same equipment as stonemasons, so i guess they're sort of like "spiritual carpenters."

[OpheliaBlue]

all I know is that Mozart was one freemason symbols are used all throught his opera Die Zauberflöte

[The Blue Meanie]

The masons were originally a REALLY secret society. Lots of political undertones, etc. But, over recent decades, they've pretty much become a more secret version of the rotary club. There's sort of a belief in some sort of higher power, but, dunno how strictly that;s observed. There's a few secrets to make members feel special, like handshakes, symbology, writings, hierarchies, but, to be totally honest, it's lost a lot of its relevance due to political changes over the last century or so.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by kage23 i don't know if this belongs here in the lounge, or in extended, or what, so i'll start it in the lounge, and the mods can move it as needs be. i have some friends who are Freemasons. they say it's not really a "secret society" as it is a "society with secrets." secrets like handshakes, passwords, etc. so i'm curious - are there any Freemasons here on DV? and what does everybody think of the Freemasons? Yes, the Free Masons are working more and more in the open. They have slain their biggest enemies and now they look about of find that they are mostly in the clear now. But they shouldn't be. What they do is wrong. And what they do is conspire to discriminate against all non-Masons. They tend to infiltrate Human Resource Offices, Admissions Offices, Law Enforcement Offices. All to smooth the way for bring in and promoting more Masons. And then there is the matter of them 'selling their souls' so to speak. They are BOUND to obey certain signs. For instance, when George Bush was delivering one campaign address, there was a moment after he made a certain sign, where many of the audience audibly groaned. He had requested they give generously to the Campaign and then flashed a sign indicating a high order binding Command. You see, they are promised careers and promotion ahead of all non-Masons, but in return they must obey every binding sign. And that is the real problem with the Masons, and that is that nobody knows who is giving the orders. What is the Ultimate Agenda? Nobody knows. For all anybody knows, it may well be a plot to destroy the entire World Economy so that some clever family somewhere can laugh at some Centuries old revenge. We simply don't know what the Big Plan is. Anyway, if it were not for the fact that they have Law Enforcement, in both Europe and America fully infiltrated, then it would have been our only hope to launch mass arrests in the middle of the night and purge the World of these Conspiring Masons. But it has grown to late for any of that. They won and the good people lost. Now we must only wait and see what humiliations our defeat will bring us. Or you can sell your soul and join them.

[Leo Volont]

Indeed, as I've been discussing the conspiratorial victory of the Masons over everything that is good and right and decent, it makes me wonder that the Masons have seemed so willing to allow the Mormons to do about the same thing. The Masons know what is going on, and I wonder that they would stand for it. While they conspire to secretly take over the world, why would they allow another group to entrench itself in a similar bid to take over the World. You think it would lead to something of a Turf War. Well, maybe they have come to some secret peace agreement, where the Mormons are allowed 3 or 4 Western States, if only they promise not to go East of Kansas or whatever.

[The Blue Meanie]

Leo, get a grip. Sure, masonry is widespread, but really, it's no different to the Rotary Club, and other similar organisations. Sure, influential people belong to him, and sure, they have their own governing body and ideas, but, seriously, it's ridiculous to try and suggest they're trying to take over the world.

[Faithless]

my dad is a mason, in fact he's the grand master of his lodge. so was my grandpa. he doesn't talk about what goes on much, but as far as i can tell, at least in this (non-us) corner of the world, its like the rotary club but with lots of semi secret rituals. which as far as i can tell are christian based, i.e. they seem to have a awful lot of christian bibles hanging around. they say anyone who believes in a higher power can join, but the reality is that a) its a club, i.e. only invited people can join, which means its stays a rich white man's club. B) its a males only club, the wives etc mill around in the kitchen preparing food whilst the males do their ritual stuff. wonderful.. bleck. c) they say only a belief in a higher power is needed, but i suspect if one was muslim for instance, then one would be quietly turned away. let alone something like wicca. d) its an OLD man's club, my dad at 65 is the 2nd youngest person in his lodge. e) its basically a committe without a defined purpse, so its all pointless internal politics and bickering. if you are worried about the global freemason consipracy - you can stop worrying now. and it will die soon anyway.

[bobvilax2000]

Not a rich white man society. When I lived in Florida I worked with a black man who owned a restaurant in Atlanta, but lost it due to a fraudulant acountant. He's a poor line cook now and is still a member. - -Barrett

[Jess]

I heard that if you ever get arrested and have to write a statement, make the first word one beginning with M (or W, I'm not sure) and make it look like an M and a W superimposed on each other if you know what I mean. Apparently the police will think you have Mason connections and let you off...dubious, but worth a try! (I've never had the opportunity to test it)

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by bobvilax2000 Not a rich white man society. When I lived in Florida I worked with a black man who owned a restaurant in Atlanta, but lost it due to a fraudulant acountant. He's a poor line cook now and is still a member. - -Barrett Let me get this straight... the Free Masons allowed a Black Guy to join. But he is allowed to go broke and nobody will help him. Yeap, thats what we thought.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by The Blue Meanie Leo, get a grip. Sure, masonry is widespread, but really, it's no different to the Rotary Club, and other similar organisations. Sure, influential people belong to him, and sure, they have their own governing body and ideas, but, seriously, it's ridiculous to try and suggest they're trying to take over the world. Really. I was working for a large Corporation. A young Engineer fresh out of College shows up. he screws up his job through neglect and stupidity and his Department Manager attempts to have him fired. The Young Engineer laughs and shows his Department Manager his Mason Ring and says "You can't fire me! and What's More in two or three years I'll be your Boss and you will beg that I don't fire you!". Guess what happened. Indeed, this is why manufacturing quality is so sorry in the West. The Widespread Practices of Free Masonry Hiring and Promotion have taken all Intelligence and Quality out of the Process. When Good and Intelligent Engineers are passed over, and when Competence has nothing to do with Promotion, then it is almost a forgone Conclusion that the Resultant System will be Operationally Dysfunctional. So the Far East will take over the World largely because the Inherent Incompetence of the Masonic System makes it Impossible for the West to effectively compete. And this is true. Just because it is Outrageous does not mean it is not so. Yes, you can dream and have stars in your eyes, but that does not mean that an Evil and Stupid Conspiracy has not taken over Your World.

[docKnubis]

Originally posted by Faithless my dad is a mason, in fact he's the grand master of his lodge. so was my grandpa. he doesn't talk about what goes on much, but as far as i can tell, at least in this (non-us) corner of the world, its like the rotary club but with lots of semi secret rituals. which as far as i can tell are christian based, i.e. they seem to have a awful lot of christian bibles hanging around. they say anyone who believes in a higher power can join, but the reality is that a) its a club, i.e. only invited people can join, which means its stays a rich white man's club. B) its a males only club, the wives etc mill around in the kitchen preparing food whilst the males do their ritual stuff. wonderful.. bleck. c) they say only a belief in a higher power is needed, but i suspect if one was muslim for instance, then one would be quietly turned away. let alone something like wicca. d) its an OLD man's club, my dad at 65 is the 2nd youngest person in his lodge. e) its basically a committe without a defined purpse, so its all pointless internal politics and bickering. if you are worried about the global freemason consipracy - you can stop worrying now. and it will die soon anyway. lmfao ok so my dad is one too and a- we arnt at all rich we have just enough to get by b-well i think there is a side group for the ladies c-eh? if you belive in a supream being your in ... that is if you are invited in d- it not really an old mans club my dad joined when he was like 24. e- do a wiki search on them and find out what they do to help... any one know of the shriners well they are kinda a sub group of the masons and they have a childrens hospital so you cant say that they are bad o and if any one would like to know that i am a demolay its the youth version of freemasons. . and we also have our secret midnight rituals but if i told you i would have to kill you

[Jess]

Originally posted by Docthory i am a demolay its the youth version of freemasons. . and we also have our secret midnight rituals but if i told you i would have to kill you That's cool. How do you get in? Do you have a ring? Is what I heard about the police statement thing true?! Tell me more about it...

[The Blue Meanie]

Originally posted by Leo Volont I was working for a large Corporation. *A young Engineer fresh out of College shows up. *he screws up his job through neglect and stupidity and his Department Manager attempts to have him fired. *The Young Engineer laughs and shows his Department Manager his Mason Ring and says "You can't fire me! *and What's More in two or three years I'll be your Boss and you will beg that I don't fire you!". Really? He SPOKE with all those inappropriate capital letters? Amazing! Leo, seriously, coming up with a totally unverifiable, likely exaggerated anecdote does not really support the excessively broad and ludicrous propositions you're making. Go find some hard evidence. Originally posted by Leo Volont that does not mean that an Evil and Stupid Conspiracy has not taken over Your World. Completely right. It's called Christianity. None of that matters, of course, for Allah shal smite all infidels, Christian and Mason alike.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by The Blue Meanie Completely right. *It's called Christianity. None of that matters, of course, for Allah shal smite all infidels, Christian and Mason alike. Well, if one has to have Conspiracies taking over the World, and has a choice between Moral Cospiracies and Amoral and even Diabolic Conspiracies, I would chose the Moral, wouldn't you? Oh, but making moral distinctions is beneath you apparently. Its all the same. Christians or Greedy Slave Driving Barbarians... a Conspiracy IS a Conspiracy, is it not?

[MSG]

well right now theres too many conspiracys and companies trying to take over the world, so many that they are pushing together too tight like one of those cheese bridges... so I guess it makes like a shield? all these thingss pressing on each other , virtually blocking their strive for power (theres alot more, but I only listed the major ones) and I guess its a good thing, theres only two on here that I would like to see rule the world. And its not on the side of RIAA and MPAA

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by pOOp well right now theres too many conspiracys and companies trying to take over the world, so many that they are pushing together too tight like one of those cheese bridges... so I guess it makes like a shield? all these thingss pressing on each other , virtually blocking their strive for power (theres alot more, but I only listed the major ones) and I guess its a good thing, theres only two on here that I would like to see rule the world. And its not on the side of RIAA and MPAA Actually, Open and Declared Companies and Political Entities -- Sony, America, Microsoft -- are at a disadvantage when it comes to Secret Societies. The advantage of Secret Societies is that they can infiltrate other Corporate and Political Entities and then coopt their resources for the Secret Agenda. For Instance, George W. Bush is a Mason, and is bound to take Orders from those of higher Masonic Rank. So George Bush is not the Leader of the Free World, is he? Some nameless Mason can pull all the strings. Then we have all the Mason in all of the Human Resources Offices of every Corporation in the West, assigning Masons to the Best Jobs and Careers. Dues go into the Central Pot making the Masons one of the Wealthiest Entities in the Entire World. But it is a Secret Organization and so all that money goes unreported. A huge pool of Funds for Political Bribery and Corruption.

[bobvilax2000]

Originally posted by Leo Volont Let me get this straight... the Free Masons allowed a Black Guy to join. But he is allowed to go broke and nobody will help him. Yeap, thats what we thought. Actually he had nothing but nice things to say about his chapter. He insisted that there was nothing shady at all about the Masons and they just want to help. I'm sure, though, that you'll translate that into either, A) he was hiding secrets by saying what he said, or, B) The other rich, white Masons left him out of the loop. If they didn't want him associated with the Masons, wouldn't they just find a way to remove him? You know, in typical Free Mason manners, "make him disappear". Ohhhhh, they're just slowly killing him. Ok. When I was younger I had a friend whose father was a Mason. Whenever he came home from a meeting, he just came home drunk. - -Barrett

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by bobvilax2000 Actually he had nothing but nice things to say about his chapter. He insisted that there was nothing shady at all about the Masons and they just want to help. I'm sure, though, that you'll translate that into either, A) he was hiding secrets by saying what he said, or, B) The other rich, white Masons left him out of the loop. If they didn't want him associated with the Masons, wouldn't they just find a way to remove him? You know, in typical Free Mason manners, "make him disappear". Ohhhhh, they're just slowly killing him. Ok. When I was younger I had a friend whose father was a Mason. Whenever he came home from a meeting, he just came home drunk. * - -Barrett What do little baby Masons know anyway? They are the Pawns of Hell and hardly know the Counsels of Lucifer. That has been one of my primary conserns with Free Masonry, and that is that NOBODY seems to know who is in charge and what the Ultimate Agenda is. Everybody is simply going along for the ride. Daddy sold his soul. Daddy got his good job. Daddy don't really care, does he?

[docKnubis]

The Story of Jacques DeMolay The namesake of the Order of DeMolay was born in Vitrey, Department of Haute Saone, France in the year 1244. At the age of 21, DeMolay joined the Order of Knights Templar. The Knights Templar was an organization sanctioned by the Roman Catholic Church in 1128 to guard the road between Jerusalem and Acre, an important port city on the Mediterranean Sea. The Order of Knights Templar participated in the Crusades and earned a name for valor and heroism. With many nobles and princes sending their sons to join the Knights Templar, the Order also became very wealthy and popular throughout Europe. In 1298, Jacques DeMolay was named Grand Master of the Knights Templar, a position of power and prestige. As Grand Master however, Jacques DeMolay was also in a difficult position. The Crusades were not achieving their goals. The non-Christian Saracens defeated the Crusaders in battle and captured many vital cities and posts. The Knights Templar and the Hospitalers (another Order of Knights) were the only groups remaining to confront the Saracens. The Knights Templar decided to reorganize and regain their strength. They traveled to the island of Cyprus, waiting for the general public to rise up in support of another Crusade. Instead of public support, however, the Knights attracted the attention of powerful lords, who were interested in obtaining their wealth and power. In 1305, Philip the Fair, King of France, set about to obtain control of the Knights Templars. They had been accountable only to the Church. To prevent a rise in the power of the Church, and to increase his own wealth, Philip set out to take over the Knights. The year 1307 saw the beginning of the persecution of the Knights. Jacques DeMolay, along with hundreds of others, were seized and thrown into dungeons. For seven years, DeMolay and the Knights suffered torture and inhuman conditions. While the Knights did not end, Philip managed to force Pope Clement to condemn the Templars. Their wealth and property were confiscated and given to Philip's supporters. During years of torture, Jacques DeMolay continued to be loyal to his friends and Knights. He refused to disclose the location of the funds of the Order and he refused to betray his comrades. On March 18, 1314, DeMolay was tried by a special court. As evidence, the court depended on a forged confession, allegedly signed by DeMolay. Jacques DeMolay disavowed the forged confession. Under the laws of the time, the disavowal of a confession was punishable by death. Another Knight, Guy of Auvergne, likewise disavowed his confession and stood with Jacques DeMolay. King Philip ordered them both to be burned at the stake that day, and thus the story of Jacques DeMolay became a testimonial to loyalty and friendship.[/b] Frank S. Land The Founder of DeMolay The Order of DeMolay was founded in 1919, in Kansas City, Missouri, by a young man named Frank S. Land. Land was a community leader who, at the age of 28, already had a successful business career as a restaurateur behind him. The main event that lead to the founding of the DeMolay movement was World War I. This was a time when the nation was caught up with a passion and desire to bring democracy to the world. When the United States joined in the fight against German power, every resource of men and materials was poured into the war effort. America suffered not only the loss of its men who had fallen in battle, but on the homefront as well. A positive response to this critical situation came about with the development of many charitable organizations. Frank S. Land was selected to act as the director of the Masonic Relief and Employment Bureau of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. This charity would come to help hundreds and hundreds of families. Near the end of the war, Land became concerned with the problems of boys who had lost their fathers. He thought "how lonely it must be for a boy not to have a man to talk with, or a man to provide some type of inspiration and direction." Frank decided there was a need for an organization where boys would have the opportunity to associate with other boys, a place they could share common interests, learn responsibility and other skills that would benefit them throughout their lives. His ideal model for this organization included having business or professional men, Masons, taking interest in the young people, being a friend to them, advising them, and perhaps even providing them with employment opportunities. In March, 1919, Land met with young Louis Lower. Louis' father had died, leaving the young man without a father figure in his life. Land took the time to listen to Louis, learn about his dreams, and to help him. He learned that others, like Louis, sought companionship, leadership, inspiration and competition. He asked Louis to invite some friends to a meeting, the original group of nine DeMolays: Louis G. Lower, Ivan M. Bentley, Edmund Marshall, Gorman A. McBride, Jerome Jacobson, William W. Steinhilber, Elmer Dorsey, Clyde C. Stream, and Ralph Sewell. At the second meeting, there was a total of 31 young men present. They were excited about their new club! The group needed its own identity and its own name. After Dad Land related the story of Jacques DeMolay, the group decided to name itself for this historical figure connected with Masonry. Dad Land, as he came to be called, provided the philosophy and principles to be embodied. As interest in DeMolay spread, Land answered many requests for information and authority to start chapters. Initiations and ceremonies took place in all locations. By the fall of 1920, Mother Chapter had developed activities for its members as well. These included an outstanding baseball team, a DeMolay marching unit, and even a 100-piece band! By the end of 1921, Dad Land realized he had to devote full time to this new organization and become a full time DeMolay employee. As DeMolay chapters grew in numbers and strength, the organization as a whole grew in prestige. With this greater prestige, interest developed in the Masonic fraternity. Official recognition and approval by Masonic groups began giving their seal of approval to foster DeMolay in their states. Many distinguished organizations endorsed DeMolay including the General Grand Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, Grand Lodges, Knights Templar, etc. A devoted champion of Freemasonry and of its teachings, Land would become a figure of international prominence within Masonry, eventually becoming Imperial Potentate of the Shrine of North America. He counted among his friends U.S. Congressmen, state governors, movie and radio stars, military leaders, leaders of industry, Presidents of the U.S. and a veritable legion of young men in their teens. Dad Land worked tirelessly for the Order of DeMolay until his death on November 8, 1959. Hundreds of other devoted workers aided in the creation and extension of the Order of DeMolay, but looked to one man for guidance. Frank S. Land was the charismatic leader of the Order. Frank S. Land was truly a great man, a proud American, and a person who came to be known by millions, simply as "Dad". Frank Land's life touched, and continues to impact generation after generation of young people, young men looking to better themselves by emulating the lessons and examples by which he himself lived.[/b]

[Leo Volont]

Dear Docthory, So, there are actual people out there who consider as their ideal an Order of Monks who are sudduced by Wealth into attempting to subvert their Church and their Civilization? Astonishing. What next. Rapers? Pirates? Oh, and about any propaganda that this most corrupt of monks did not betray his fellows. Well, that is easy enough to say, in order to make of him some hero. But the fact is that the Templars were exterminated, and that a great deal of Wealth was confiscated. Now some of the Wealth must have disappeared in non-transferrable Checks and Bonds. But all liquid assets were seized.