Terrorists Again

**Tsen** · 08-11-2006 06:08 AM

So, I'm sure most of you have heard by now.
CNN on the capture of the terrorists.

So they were trying to smuggle liquid explosives onto planes to detonate them. Just to give you guys a quick rundown on this sort of thing, explosives on planes are really, really nasty. Even an incredibly small amount can do devastating damage, for two reasons: One, planes are designed to be light rather than strong. They're supposed to hold together in a crash, but they still aren't strong enough to withstand even a small explosion. Two, the air outside of airplanes is extremely low-pressure because of altitude, so creating even a small hole in an airplane just opens the floodgates for even more damage. That's why even a few grams of explosives in somebody's shoe is a serious threat--a few grams is all it takes.

They were planning on getting the explosives on board with drink containers with false bottoms. On top of the container is a real drink, so that it will pass inspection, but the bottom of the container holds liquid explosives in a separate space, dyed to match the drink's color. Detonation would be acheived via a disposable camera--apparently the flash is enough to set off the explosives, though I'm not exactly sure how that would work, since I don't know what kind of explosive they were using.

So, now that I've finished the intro, I started this to see what you guys think the implications of this will be.
They've already banned all drinks from airplanes, as well as other liquids, like lotion and such, and general security is up once again.
Also, they've apparently tracked the finances for the terrorists back to Pakistan--not sure on that, I'll have to check again later. So, what do you guys think? Should/will action be taken against Pakistan as a nation, and what sort of action do you think would be most efficient?

Also, I realize that a few of you conspiracy nuts are going to instantly associate this with the upcoming elections--I don't agree, but feel free to discuss that as well.

**icuurd12b42** · 08-11-2006 06:26 AM

The repercussion is that airlines now have a solution for loss profits due to gas price increase. Sell water bottles.

But seriously, if this goes any further the only way to travel will be in hospital gowns. Come travel with us, it’s safe, everyone’s naked!

**Amethyst Star** · 08-11-2006 06:35 AM

Funny, there's a report on TV right now.

They were reading off the list of things that's not allowed in carry-on, and I'm actually a little peeved that you now can't take contact solution on board. What if my eyes are dry or they suddenly start burning? I'm not going to stick them in my mouth, and my only other options are to throw them away (=&#036

or have a stewardess bring me some water and some cups and hope there's no turbulence.

So my wish to you all, may your eyes never bother you on a flight.

**icuurd12b42** · 08-11-2006 06:51 AM

Yea, people with allergies or any other type of ailment requiring immediate treatment using liquid or gel medication will suffer.

My brother was once almost arrested (20 years ago) for bringing Otrivin on board for his breathing problem. He agreed to chuck it. Now, I imagine he’d be shot!

**Amethyst Star** · 08-11-2006 06:56 AM

Well, they said that "medicine" would be allowed, but who knows how stringent or fair they'll be with that? Not to mention it probably wouldn't be too difficult to get around. There's going to have to be a way to verify that it is medication and that's going to take way too much time.

**Roller** · 08-11-2006 07:00 AM

Not sure on action being taken against Pakistan as a nation... I (think) I read somewhere that it was Pakistani officials that alerted those in the UK to the threat in the first place. I'm not sure what kind of action could be taken against Pakistan anyway.

**NeAvO** · 08-11-2006 10:09 PM

Yeah I just came back from holiday today and we weren't allowed flight bags ( had to be clear plastic bags) everything had to be in the suitcase including phones and books.

It's lucky my flight wasn't delayed.

**Ynot** · 08-12-2006 01:43 AM

http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/inde...howtopic=36161

not that anyone knew what I was talking about at the time

**Kaniaz** · 08-12-2006 01:44 AM

This is all over the UK news. I think they might have been making a slightly big deal out of it, but that might be me getting jaded after all this "terrorist attacks" that didn't happen but the media still reports them like they did.

The Bank of Jolly Ol' England has frozen the terrorists' assets, as far as I'm aware, and I guess they'll be tracing that money.

**Jlick** · 08-12-2006 08:53 AM

So much for our war on terrorism

lesson to Bush: You can't fight a war agaisnt an idea

**Tsen** · 08-12-2006 09:20 AM

Elaborate, Jlick.
Because I agree--an idea can't be fought, but a terrorist strike CAN be prevented. You can't stop extremists from being angry at you, but you CAN stop them from blowing themselves up on your airplanes, or in your cities. And terrorism isn't really an idea--terrorism is an use of force or a threat of force intended to coerce a nation or person into action, usually for political or religious reasons. Terrorism isn't just being angry at somebody--terrorism is going to blow that person up because you're angry at them.

So terrorism isn't an idea at all--it's a forceful action. And actions can be prevented, though it may be difficult. I do think that Bush's methods are heavy-handed and inefficient, but it is possible to combat terrorism. In this case, the terrorists were stopped from destroying the plains by the use of well-placed intelligence officers.

Though--I just heard about this, Bush was trying to divert money from explosive-detection research. He's going to catch a lot of flak over that.

**MSG** · 08-12-2006 09:56 AM

a disposable camera... yeah you take it apart and then you charge up the capacitor (press the flash button) and then touch a metal contact (perhaps the bottom of the AA battery?) to the two leads of the capacitor and then you have a Spark!!!!

if theres an explosive near the spark then you get a Boom!!!

**Patrick** · 08-14-2006 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Tsen

So, I'm sure most of you have heard by now.
CNN on the capture of the terrorists.

So they were trying to smuggle liquid explosives onto planes to detonate them. Just to give you guys a quick rundown on this sort of thing, explosives on planes are really, really nasty. Even an incredibly small amount can do devastating damage, for two reasons: One, planes are designed to be light rather than strong. They're supposed to hold together in a crash, but they still aren't strong enough to withstand even a small explosion. Two, the air outside of airplanes is extremely low-pressure because of altitude, so creating even a small hole in an airplane just opens the floodgates for even more damage. That's why even a few grams of explosives in somebody's shoe is a serious threat--a few grams is all it takes.
[/b]

Actually, the small hole thing is a myth. It's been proven that small holes on aircraft only have the capacity to suck very small objects out and the aircraft can land safely. Even large holes in the side of planes can't suck people out, especially if they're wearing seatbelts. There was even an incident only a decade or so ago when a full passenger plane had a very large part of its overhead fuselage ripped off in mid flight. It managed to land safely. Only one Airhostess, who was walking in the aisle, was lost.
Full Story: http://www.answers.com/topic/aloha-airlines-flight-243

**SKA** · 08-14-2006 01:35 PM

There's just sick sick people out there constantly trying to Figure out ''how can I kill as many innocent civillians in one action?''

Infadels. World opinion is turning against these groups, because they'll kill EVERYone. Bombs in Cairo, Bombs in Morocco, a Bombattack on a Synagogue in Istanbul, a Bombattack on a Tourist resort in Antalia, Turkey, Almost every week a major Bomb attack in Iraq, Almost every day bombs of terror on Israël, We'll we've seen 9/11 in teh US, Madrid, London:

These people have the ULTIMATE disrespect of LIFE and they shall save NO one's life. Not even their ''Brother Muslims'' lives. ''Muslim, Infadel, Jew: whatever you gotta DIE westerling'' is what their SICK Ideology is all about. Infadels, Muslims that are too western and modern, Jews, Westerlings....We all gotta die they think. Well I find it no wonder that some nations are batteling terrorism so rudely: but the things is: who is your enemy?

There ain't no such country as ''Terroristania'' : They live and Hide like cowards between Civilians. You couldn't bomb them without making huuuge collateral damage. And they can simply continue spreading Terror throughout the world as they wish.
Allthough they cannot be stopped, they should be impaired and slowed down as much as possible to prevent even MORE casualties of their Insane Rage against the ''Infadels''.

Brittish Authorities may have stopped and arrested 21 terrorists planning a mass murder of ''infadels'' : PEOPLE like you and me, who haven't got any argument with the Muslim world or even Al Qaeda at all: just minding their business. But mind you:

I'm getting more and more FED up with this BULLSHI-ITE Jihad.
But one of these days, here in Holland, a terrible bomb will go off and kill many many people.Just a matter of time: cuz how do you stop an enemy you cannot Identify?

People have gone completely crazy and I'm affraid it won't take long for the entire world to light on fire with war and hatred because of those few groups terrorising the Entire world.

**Tsen** · 08-14-2006 03:04 PM

Patrick, it's not so much people getting sucked out that's the problem. When an explosive goes off in a plane, it does immense damage to the airframe--the typical passenger airplane isn't designed to take explosive-level stress. Because of this, the explosion creates a very, very large hole, does immense structural damage, probably lights off the fuel in the wings (though the tanks in the wings probably won't explode--they might burn, but not explode, and either way they'll leak), and the remnants of the plane get torn apart by the friction of the air. The pressure difference plays a part, but not a big one.

**Alric** · 08-14-2006 06:59 PM

I am not sure how anyone can even believe this crap. I guess on a plane full of people no one would notice a guy screwing off a false bottom of a bottle then taking apart his camera and making a bomb. Then again they did take over an entire plane with boxcutters. I guess we are lucky we didn't make japan mad. Ninjas might smuggle in toothpicks and kill people by throwing them into their brains through the eye socket.

**shark!** · 08-16-2006 02:02 AM

btw what's with these terrorists, sure there are things to fight and hate...but how does blowing up innocent ppl really help their cause...even if they are americans. I guess they hate the travel business? or maybe airlines? maybe they don't think there is enough rascism towards pakistinians or muslims?
im guessing its not that..."they hate freedom" like that one fucking idiot in the US always says..

???

**Tsen** · 08-16-2006 02:06 AM

Anybody know what kind of explosives they were using yet? I heard somewhere that they were a peroxide of some sort, but that's pretty vague.

**Tsen** · 08-17-2006 05:45 PM

Just found this. On the Implausibility of the Explosives Plot. Apparently the author heard the same thing as me--that they were using a peroxide, but he got a bit more information than that--that they were apparently trying to MAKE the chemical ON THE PLANE. Now I'm thinking the same thing as Alric--WTF were they thinking? That they'd start mixing a few chemicals, (Highly caustic, very, very hot chemicals that need to be kept at about -83 degrees in order to be successful), while the guy next to them just reads his magazine? I'm thinking the news reporters messed up their report--I have a hard time believing anybody could be THAT stupid.
Anyway, it's an interesting read, check it out.

**SpaceFlower** · 08-17-2006 06:31 PM

Now I'm thinking the same thing as Alric--WTF were they thinking? That they'd start mixing a few chemicals, (Highly caustic, very, very hot chemicals that need to be kept at about -83 degrees in order to be successful), while the guy next to them just reads his magazine? I'm thinking the news reporters messed up their report--I have a hard time believing anybody could be THAT stupid.
Anyway, it's an interesting read, check it out.[/b]

where there is a will there is a way. Not all flights are completely booked. They could buy two or three seats in a row, or maybe mix in the bathroom or something. Just the thought of someone attempting that scares the shit outta me.

btw what's with these terrorists, sure there are things to fight and hate...but how does blowing up innocent ppl really help their cause...even if they are americans. I guess they hate the travel business? or maybe airlines? maybe they don't think there is enough rascism towards pakistinians or muslims?
im guessing its not that..."they hate freedom" like that one fucking idiot in the US always says..[/b]

I know, if they want everyone in the world to be like them then they shoudn't be expressing themselves with violence. All this does is close people's minds to muslim religion - even if it is just a radicle faction.

It feels like their hatred is a disease that is effecting the world. Is anyone else as scared as I am that another world war may break out?

**NeAvO** · 08-17-2006 07:17 PM

The scariest thing is all these terrorists are British muslims. Atleast I don't live in London.

**badassbob** · 08-17-2006 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by ;296730

btw what's with these terrorists, sure there are things to fight and hate...but how does blowing up innocent ppl really help their cause...even if they are americans. I guess they hate the travel business? or maybe airlines? maybe they don't think there is enough rascism towards pakistinians or muslims?
im guessing its not that..."they hate freedom" like that one fucking idiot in the US always says..
???
[/b]

Yeah, maybe one day there'll be a group of terrorists who stop and think. "Um, we've been doing this for the last 90 years, but we haven't got anywhere." and they never will. When is it that they expect a world leader to turn around and say, "Those terrorists have just killed a hundred people, lets give them absoloutly everything they want, that'll make everyone happy"

I can't think of one terrorist attack that has helped a group of terrorists in their cause. All it does is kill off innocent people, and neither side gets anywhere.

**Alric** · 08-17-2006 08:48 PM

From what I heard so far is that the people they arrested did not have any explosives, stuff to make explosives, plans to make the explosives, plane tickets or passports. Thats pretty sloppy work right there, you would almost think they had no plans to blow up the plane at all.