Thread: Iran: Should We Just Go Ahead And Attack?

Our country is not gonna go BANKRUPT. If you know anything about war, it HELPS economy.

If you actually believes that your more naive than I though. The current US national debt $8,536,219,163,519.36. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that is a big number. Seriously anyone who thinks our economy is doing great is a total and complete moron.

If you knew anything you would know our government is already bankrupt. You can say war helps our economy all you want but the fact is wars cost money, lots of money. We just keep digging a deeper hole. Like I said before, we can't affored to go to war with Iran, we do not have the money.

Originally Posted by Alric

If you actually believes that your more naive than I though. The current US national debt $8,536,219,163,519.36. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out that is a big number. Seriously anyone who thinks our economy is doing great is a total and complete moron.

If you knew anything you would know our government is already bankrupt. You can say war helps our economy all you want but the fact is wars cost money, lots of money. We just keep digging a deeper hole. Like I said before, we can't affored to go to war with Iran, we do not have the money.
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War also creates money because it creates industry. WWII pulled the United States out of the depression. Business expansion creates money and helps the economy. We are not going to go bankrupt. And we do have the money to rightfully overthrow the government of Iran.

But to answer your question, IF we ran out of soldiers, then yes, I would go to Iran and fight if we were at war with them. However, your question misses my point. And by the way, after all of the internet debates I have had about war, nobody has EVER given me a straight counter to my rebuttal to the chickenhawk tangent. If it is illegitimate for a non-military person to make the point that a war effort is necessary, then by the same reasoning, it is illegitimate for a non-fireman to say that a fire fighting effort is necessary or for a non-cop to say that certain criminals need to be arrested. That would make calling the police illegitimate if the caller is not willing to make the arrest himself. It is an absurd form of reasoning, as further illustrated by Leo's complete inability to retort. He knows that he is in checkmate, and he is behaving accordingly.

Thats not really true. The depression was well on its way to ending before WW2 started. Infact the depression should have only lasted a few years but because of government intervention is was drug out a lot longer than it should have been. Like I said though, we are already bankrupt. If we took all the taxes our government takes in for an entire year, it would not even pay the interest on our debt. It is impossible to pay off our current debt, and it just keeps getting worse. I don't think you realize how serious of a problem we are in.

Yet again, the liberals blame the governmet.
*cough: alric: ccough*

So much for an intelligent reply. And for the record I am not a liberal.

YES YOU ARE!!!!!!!!!&# 33;
YOU"LL BE A LIBERAL AND LIKE IT!!!!!!!!!&#3 3;!

Now you just sound like an idiot. I would best be desercibed as a conservative libertrian. I was a conservative republican but republicans are basicly liberals now. Which is funny because thats what you are too. Your a liberal and your making fun of other people for being liberal. Atleast they know what they stand for.

Infact you sound like a hardcore liberal. You believe in large government which is liberal and you believe the government the best judge of how things should be done, which is liberal. I believe in small government which is conservative and I believe the government needs to be controlled by the people which is conservative.

Of course there is nothing wrong with being a liberal, its just really annoying when a liberal who acts like a conservative calls me a liberal when I am not. By the way just being pro war doesn't make you a conservative if its the only thing you believe in, that just makes you an ass.

By the way thats what conservatives do they blame the government, because we want a small government and we have a huge out of control government. Anyone who supports Bush is obviously for huge government and so must be a liberal.

Actually thats what neocons are. Liberals who think they are conservative. Actually let me guess, your a neocon right?

I am pro-big government because, well, YES, the government knows better than the public. They have hundreds of agencies who collect infinite amounts of info., then the gov. makes decisions based on that info.

Are you trying to tell me that you know more than the government?

About the liberal vs. conservative thing. Both those words have aquired new meanings. So NOW, liberal means small government with passive views, and conservatives are for big gov. and aggressive views. So when i call you liberal, i mean the present day liberal definition, not the one from Abe Lincoln's time.

About me sounding like an idiot. TAKE A JOKE

Actually its only about 30 years ago that they really started to change. The problem is that liberals still believe in large government as well. Which is why I say both parties are really the same because they do believe basicly the same thing and are both trying to make government as big as possible. So now we have big passive government and big aggressive government but either way its still big government.

And no I don't believe the government knows best. The "government" is just made up of normal people and just because they are in the government doesn't mean they know more than anyone else. The fact is I may very well know more than the government on some subjects. Infact you take someone like bush and half the population will tell you they know more than him.

Of course its not all about who knows better, you also have to trust the government. They might know some thing is wrong yet still do it for selfish reasons. So no I don't really trust the government either. And I have many reasons not to trust them, just like everyone else has many reasons not to trust them.

Man, alric, that is ridiculus.

All you know about the outside world is what you see on the news and read on the internet. The government has agencies that exist only to gather information.

To say that you know more than the government on ANY foreign relation topics or economics is ignorant.

Yes, they are ordinary people. They know more because they are told more.

Thats not true at all. Most government stuff is public, meaning you can read the findings of their agencies. So if you read their public report plus you do some of your own research, its entirely possible to be more informed on a subject than any given government offical dealing with an issue.

Your also assuming the government agencies are the best sources for information. For every government ran agency that deals with finding information, there is also a privately ran group and likely a nonprofit public group that also deals with the same subject, as well as a large number of individuals who likely make a living in the field. Any government offical who goes by only what they are "told" from offical government reports is going to be severely lacking in information compared to even an average citizen who has looked to multiple sources for their information.

"They know more because they are told more". Just because someone told you something doesn't mean you actually learned it. Anyone in the government that has to actually be told information instead of going out and getting answers themself likely doesn't know what their talking about.

I could say with a great deal of confidence that I know more about economics than anyone who has only read government reports. There is TONS of information that the government will not print about economics. Infact the government explains very little on economics and mostly just gives out data. If you never take the time to actually learn about how our economy works in this country all the data in the world will not help you. Most people don't even know that the government causes inflations. They have a huge agency to deal with inflation and they will not even admit the obvious cause that anyone who has taken 20 minutes to read a book would know.

By the way good choice is dodging the trust issue and focusing on the information part. Theres really no reason any of us should pretend that the government is trustworthy. We all know know the truth.

I agree with the Libertarian platform on every single issue, except foreign policy issues. Foreign policy is the one area where I am very conservative where Libertarians are liberal. I thought Harry Browne was the greatest presidential candidate in history until he started stating his views on the war on terror. The most jaw dropping one was what he said on Hannity and Colmes. Hannity was trying to get Browne to understand the need to overthrow the Hussein regime. Hannity said something to the effect of, "They are working on building nuclear weapons." Browne's response was, "The United States has nuclear weapons." Harry Browne's failure to understand the difference was very scary and made me decide once and for all that he does not need to be President. That is too bad because he is such an absolute genius on everything else.

As for conservatives and big government, true conservatives still believe in it. But the Republican Party seemed to ditch the concept, though they still speak support for it in general terms. They just never want to put it into any specific policy. As for liberals, make no mistake about it. They are very much in favor of outrageously humongous government. Hillary Clinton, for example, has full plans of being the Dictator of the United States. The Democratic Party wants social programs out the ass. They think government is the answer to everything, except for one thing. They just have no solutions whatsoever to offer in regard to dealing with Islamofascists who literally want to commit genocide on Americans.

I believe its better for the government to do nothing at all than to do something stupid.

I just can't help but think that we are being manipulated by the media into hating Iran. Therefore supporting whatever military action happens down the road. Having served in the Marine Corps, I can not back a pre-emptive war on Iran. Per the media, Iran has been making some crazy statements about wiping Israel off of the face of the earth. However, they haven't done anything against the rules. They are trying to enrich Uranium supposedly for power, which is within the rules. We are the ones that are trying to change the rules on them.

I think that if Israel honestly thinks that they are in immenant danger of being nuked, they will take whatever action is necessary. It is their fight, not ours. By taking action against Iran we will be taking on a 3rd war and we just can't afford it or support it with our current manpower. You keyboard commandoes out there that are calling for a war that will spread our forces incredibly thin will most likely be singing a different tune when you get your draft card in the mail. Deny it all you want, but if we go to war with Iran, we will be forced to re-instate the draft. The Marine Corps is already calling up thousands of inactive reservists. These are guys that did their time and thought they were done. So the forces are already thin. Another war would only make things worse.

I hope it resolves itself without coming to war. And if war is necessary, I hope that it is Israel fighting it alone, not with our backing.

No matter how you shake it, it is a crappy situation.

You said it is Israel and Iran's problem, not ours.
I disagree.
Iran hates us as much as Al Quaeda and the Taliban, and if they get nuclear technology, THEY WILL GIVE IT TO TERRORISTS. The terrorists may not use it on us, but they will on Israel. THIS CANNOT GO UNPUNISHED. Im all for leaving Iran alone, until we have REASONABLE evidence to show they have nukes.
Then we attack. And if the nukes get used, America wont be the only army fighting. Everyone will send troops

By the way, our forces are not THAT spread out. We have quite a few soldiers left.
And if there is a draft, so what. I know it is easy for me to say now, but i think i would willingly go. But they wont let me due to my past injuries.

France hates us too and they have nuclear weapons. Actually russia has gone back to communism and hates us and they have nuclear weapons. Oh wait china also hates us and they have nukes too!

Most people would say france doesn't have the guts but they actually have a long history of supplying arms to other countries. Russia and china are a real threat too. Both of them are far more likely to use a nuke on us than Iran is. So why is it acceptable for them to have hundreds of nuclear bombs why iran can't even get one?

Yes, but none of those countries have DIRECT ties with terrorists, at least the suicide-bomber kind. And they are muslim extremists, so the believe in "killing the infidels". China, Russia, and the frenchies dont.

Basically, Iran has a reason, jihad, to attack, and the others dont (besides the fact that they hate us).

France and Russia gave weapons to iraq. If you believed Sadam had links to terrorist then france and russia both have a link to terrorist.

Of course the biggest threat is our own weapons. We have such a huge stockpile and so many people with access to them, its entirely possible that one may "disappear" and find its way into hands of the "terrorists".

impossible. Nukes arent just "unguarded". Every single one of them has a tracker on it, and if it is moved, an alarm will go off, im sure. Im sure they are in EXTREMELY secured bunkers with guards and everything, and i am 100% sure you cant just walk out with a nuclear bomb.

oh, and by the way, when Russia and France gave Sadam weapons he was not suspected of having terrorist links. Hell, we even gave Sadam 100 million dolors to fund the Iraq vs. Iran war. Does that mean we support terrorism?

When I said "disappear", I wasn't talking about a random person walking in and stealing it. I was more of thinking along the lines of a corrupt government official or high ranking military personnel selling it. Or the government selling it "legally" to another country.

Originally Posted by Alric

When I said "disappear", I wasn't talking about a random person walking in and stealing it. I was more of thinking along the lines of a corrupt government official or high ranking military personnel selling it. Or the government selling it "legally" to another country.
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There is something to worry about with everything you are mentioning, but none of it comes close to the worry we will have if Iran ends up with nukes. That will be a 100% chance of nuclear attack, quite possibly on the United States. Imagine 9/11 happening with nuclear missiles instead of airplanes. It is out of the question. We can not roll those dice, period. It absolutely cannot happen. Iran can't have nukes. The stuff you are talking about is still in the somewhat spooky "what if" realm. I strongly believe that France, Russia, and China are adamantly against nuclear war. But the terrorist government of Iran and the terrorist organizations they support are maniacally boned up about the idea. They want genocide on us, and they are willing to destroy themselves in the name of it. Therefore, they must be destroyed. There is no other way around it. This is the most serious problem we have ever faced.

See the thing is, I think a nuclear attack by Iran is in that "what if" area too. The chance of an attack on us isn't really there. Now an attack on israel may be real but even that is pretty small. The most likely thing I see is israel launching a nuclear attack on Iran, but again that is fairly low as well.

Also I didn't want to bring it up but there are still tons of people who think 9/11 was caused by the government. Especially on this forum.

I will make a prediction that somewhere within the next 20 years a nuclear bomb will be used on people. Welcome to ww3.

Ill get back to you guys in 20 years about that

If iran gets nukes, 100% probability of it getting used, in one place or another.