Thread: Why We Attacked Iraq

Reply on the bottom right corner of the post.
Or just use [_quote=*name of quoted*]the quote[/quote]
Dont use the "_". I had to to show you the form.

The problem is that you don't just hang around in off-topic and not talk about dreaming at all. There's no problem with THAT, plenty of members do that without causing trouble. Hell, the largest portion of MY posts are in the Lounge.

The problem arises when you continually, repeatedly and loudly start threads to make your own little political and religious soapboxes to rant on, and when anyone jouins the discussion with a view to the contrary, you act as though they're contravening the Gospel of John. You habitually insult other members. The problem isn't with your views. There are probably many on this forum who would agree with your views, yet similarly label you a troublemaking idiot just as I do.

It's not what you say, it's not even the low level of written English you use. It's the manner in which you conduct yourself on this forum. It's just plain annoying. So, please, can we try to be a normal person? Even if it's only a week before you revert back to your old ways and somebody else gets pissed off at you and says something similar to what I have?

Reply on the bottom right corner of the post.
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well, aint that just nifty as a mo fuka

thanks

Originally Posted by Bonsay

IILD = Iraq Induced Lucid Dream
I've had three since Hominus Feralis.
Sorry I couldn't resist...
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Heh. This made me burst out laughing. In the middle of the uni comoputer lab in exam study time, so, people are pissed off at me now.

Maybe Saddam was hiding his top-secret kiddie porn stash.

I wouldn't put it past him .

Originally posted by DuB
Maybe Saddam was hiding his top-secret kiddie porn stash.

You mean This?

It's settled then. Next topic.

Does that mean the UN inspectors were trying to nick off with his kiddie-porn stash? I knew it! That grubby sunuvabitch Kofi Annan. I always thought there was something sinister lurking behind that cheesy smile!

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sooo..........Sadam was a paedophile too?

Drift away, fade away, little tin godess........ ash to ash, dust to dust, fade to black, fortune fame mirror vain gone insaaaaaeaaanneeee.... fortune fame mirror vain gone insane but the memory remains.......ash to ash dust to dust fade to black the memory remaaaaaaaaaaaaainnnns, yea ,faded prima doooonaa yea yea yea yea, AHHHH SUCK IT!!!!! (kick ass guitar solo) dance little tin godess dance. la dada da da da da...la da da da da, la da da da da da da, la da da da da da...............

sorry, i was jammin to \"the memory remains\" by metallica. Was that off topic enough for you....

................i need to stop drinkin

im gettin pretty aggitated. PLEASE PLEASE answer my question. If you dont, if might just have to kick a baby in the throat. Do you want that to happen? Neither do I.......

I have argued this a million times, and it very rarely penetrates the skulls of people who seem to actually get sexually aroused by any chance to start insulting Bush, but I will try again, a different way.

Try your absolute best to put ALL of these facts together and get the best understanding you can possibly have of the BIG PICTURE. People always want to take one point and act as though it could stand alone as the entire proposal. Think really hard about the BIG PICTURE.

1. The Bush Administration was given intelligence from Britain, Israel, France, Russia, and China that the Hussein regime had stockpiles of WMD's, such as anthrax and sarin gas. The intelligence was also given by the United Nations and our CIA, Senate (including John Kerry and Hillary Clinton), and the Clinton Administration. (Thus, it was not some off the wall lie that Bush came up with on his own, to say the least.)

2. The Hussein regime had a history of mindless terrorism, which included providing financial incentives to suicide bombers who target masses of civilians and deliberately killing thousands and thousands of innocent Kurds with sarin gas, a WMD.

(Put 1 and 2 together, and there is already cause for extreme alarm. If you say you disagree, you are lying.)

3. We did not overthrow the Hussein regime in our 1991 Gulf War because we had a treaty with them instead. The treaty had several provisions the regime had to follow to stay in power. The Hussein regime violated the Hell out of that treaty for 12 years. Several of the grounds were terrorism grounds. Another one was not demonstrating the destruction of the WMD's he did in fact have at the time. He also refused to cooperate properly with weapons inspectors (the criminal flight behavior Hard as Nails discussed). Thus, the stated consequence-- overthrow.

4. Democracy in the Middle East, when it fully blossoms over the course of the future, will provide a living climate that is not conducive to suicide bomber mentalities. Democracy creates opportunities, relative stability, and other things that give people things to live for. People become suicide bombers when they are poor as dirt and have nothing to live for. Fully developed democracy is the ultimate antidote to that. Americans don't tend to become suicide bombers at public cafes. Neither do Canadians, Australians, and Europeans. With democracy comes civilization. With civilization comes civilized behavior, as opposed to backward ass primitive behavior, such as suicide bombing.

5. After 9/11, Bush formed the Bush Doctrine, which says that we will go after any country that supports terrorism. Because of 1-4, Iraq was our first choice after Afghanistan.

6. One of Al Qaeda's reasons for feeling okay about their prospects in the 9/11 attacks was that we would do nothing about it. Bill Clinton's withdrawal from Somalia fueled that outlook. By taking over two Middle Eastern countries, overthrowing their terrorist governments, we gave Al Qaeda and such a new perspective. We have not been attacked on the mainland since 9/11.

WMD's and suicide bombers don't mix. That fact is overwhelmingly serious. It is not something to play games with. It is not about some VH1 Fashion Show where it looks cool to degrade Bush. This is reality, and it has to be dealt with accordingly.

Think about all of that at the same time, all together. That is justification. If you disagree, please tell me specifically what we should have done in light of all of that.

Originally Posted by loveapple

There weren't any 'nukes', they knew there weren't any. And what right has America to dictate to any country whether they can own them? America is the only country that has actually used them. America is NOT the world's policeman! America under Bush is a damn sight more dangerous than any other country on this planet!
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Do you really propose that as a reason we should not try to prevent suicide bombers from having nukes? Because we used nukes to END WORLD WAR II, we should just let any suicide bomber supporting government do as they will with them? That proposal is not helpful to the effort to prevent nuclear terrorism.

By the way, what do you suggest we do? I just laid out the problem. What do you think we should do about it? I always see you ending every single post with a hateful sentence followed by an exclamation point about what we should NOT do, but what do you think we SHOULD do? Do you even care about the people of my country?

you know, universal mind, somehow i knew you were the only one who could answer my question direcly. Congrats to you, and from now on you will be known as \"god: the almighty\"

to me, this just proves that people like ourselves (you are conservative, right? (or liberatarian (like me (although many libertarians are conservative)))) (god DAMN thats alot of parenthesis) are the most reasonable and most straight-forward people on the planet. We, and only we, can answer a political question without criticizing something unrelated to the topic. The \"others\" would rather argue by means of petty remards and hollow arguments. I think all the \"others\" have proven my point (just check out the last 25 posts)

Although you are the most bitchin\' person on earth, i must disagree with you on democracy in the middle east. To fanatical muslims, the right to vote for one\'s leader + women\'s rights + the whole FUCKING bill of rights is unreasonable. For some reason, human rights just dont sit right in their brains. They take fairy tales and fanatical beliefs over civility (i am, of course, talking about fanatical muslims). But, just as Rome and America, a republic/democracy is the best way to create a truely great nation.

Another thing. Why are you and I always persecuted for our beliefs? From a reasonable perspective, our arguments make complete sense, yet nobody listens to them, nor makes valid point. Instead, we are labled as war mongering, bush worshiping, America loving jackasses. Perhaps.....we are the only real humans left on earth. After the deadly liberal plague kills everybody off, it will be up to us to re-populate the earth..................you can be the woman...............

Originally Posted by loveapple

There were NO WMD's, most of them are owned by the USA. Bush is mentally challenged and supposedly claimed that God directed him to invade Iraq! God and Bush should both be on trial for war crimes if that is the case!

America has made a complete and utter mess of Iraq, but no doubt someone is making a fortune out of the situation!
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"Loveapple just told me to kill James. Die James, DIE!"

yes ... I can see how this is God's fault.

... No, wait ... actually, I can't.

Loveapple, ANYONE can say God told them to do something.

Doesn't meen that He did.

Personal: I hate war. I dont like the concept of people killing other people because the other side might have been plaining on killing them.

Basicly, I dont like pain and hurt, even when not directed at me. But, the problim is, it happens.

Man just doesn't like other men, and that cant be helped.

The war is regretable, and prahapse unessessery. I've spoken to some people online from Iraq, and they are suffering there. The war has helped some, and hurt others, and those it was sapposed to help, are the ones who really are suffering.

Originally Posted by Hard

you know, universal mind, somehow i knew you were the only one who could answer my question direcly. Congrats to you, and from now on you will be known as \"god: the almighty\"
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I answered your question, you chose to ignore it

Originally Posted by Hard

to me, this just proves that people like ourselves (you are conservative, right? (or liberatarian (like me (although many libertarians are conservative)))) (god DAMN thats alot of parenthesis) are the most reasonable and most straight-forward people on the planet. We, and only we, can answer a political question without criticizing something unrelated to the topic. The \"others\" would rather argue by means of petty remards and hollow arguments. I think all the \"others\" have proven my point (just check out the last 25 posts)
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You mean 'Far-right-wing'.

Originally Posted by Hard

Although you are the most bitchin\' person on earth, i must disagree with you on democracy in the middle east. To fanatical muslims, the right to vote for one\'s leader + women\'s rights + the whole FUCKING bill of rights is unreasonable. For some reason, human rights just dont sit right in their brains. They take fairy tales and fanatical beliefs over civility (i am, of course, talking about fanatical muslims). But, just as Rome and America, a republic/democracy is the best way to create a truely great nation.
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Because after spending many years studying islamic law, and being a fanatical muslim, you know exactly how they think? Are they still jealous of your 'freedom'?

Originally Posted by Hard

Another thing. Why are you and I always persecuted for our beliefs? From a reasonable perspective, our arguments make complete sense, yet nobody listens to them, nor makes valid point. Instead, we are labled as war mongering, bush worshiping, America loving jackasses. Perhaps.....we are the only real humans left on earth. After the deadly liberal plague kills everybody off, it will be up to us to re-populate the earth..................you can be the woman...............
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AHAHAHAHA! Delusions of grandeur

Seriously, even one of the top UK generals said the war failed, American reports say the war has failed, the millions of people that have lost a family member (iraqee or american) say the war failed, the soldiers that came back sais the war failed, man, maybe it is bad enough that even Saddam's old minister of intelligence would say the war, fucking, failed.

No, Wolfee, you never answered my question. I think your resonse was along the lines of \"Yea, so what?\"

Yes, i do know how muslims think. Fanatical Muslims overthrow governments and instate their own opressive laws. Women are flogged with metal sticks for showing an ankle or finger. They execute their subjects without trial. They blindly follow the Koran and interperet it in their own way (the Koran is actually about peace and love. The holy war is supposed to be converting people by means of talking, not killing)Are you going to deny this? And no, i dont believe they are jealous of our freedom. The idea of freedom has never been present in the middle east, so how could they be jealous of it? To them, being opressed is just another aspect of life that they have dealt with for centuries.

About \"far right\" people. So far, Universal Mind is the only one who answered the post. So I put 1 and 1 together and said he is the most reasonable (so far). All of the others have just redirected with nonsence about Bush, corporations, oil, and the evil American government. I believe you cannot answer my question because you are stumped, and you know Sadam was hiding something. If not, you would have told me otherwise.

About we being the only reasonable people left on earth. It was a joke. Chill out. I could just as easily say you are dillusional.

So, Wolfee, are you going to give me an explaination of why Sadam was hiding bunkers? Lets get back on topic

Originally Posted by Hard

So, Wolfee, are you going to give me an explaination of why Sadam was hiding bunkers? Lets get back on topic
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Yeah, like by awnsering why so many people, including those involved on your side, say the war failed.

Actually, that is only in extremist Muslim countries. I have many friends who are female Muslims, and they show more then thier faces, such as arms, hands, hair and so forth.

Be nice and dont steriotype

Keeper, if you would kindly look at my last 15 posts, i used the word FANATICAL about 30 times. Read my last post. I said FANATICAL muslims overthrow governments and FANATICAL muslims flogg women.

I too have a couple Muslim friends. One is generally from Pakistan. They were the first to tell me that a true muslim will NEVER pick up a weapon to harm another human being.

Dude, i know the difference between muslims and islamofacists.

Neuro, thanks, once again, for not answering. Really, i just want to see if you guys can swallow your pride and just answer the question of a conservative. Just answer once (with a reasonable answer), and then you can do as you want with this thread. I will have acheived my goal.

and neuro, this thread is not about the failure/sucess of the war currently. This is about WHY we attacked in the first place. If you would read Universal\'s post, he laid it out straight. You cannot deny the facts he brought forward.

And no, i had 2 uncles come home from the war in the last year and a half. They say we are kicking ass over there. Sure, we may have failed our primary objective of finding nukes.

You see, you cant just stand back and say \"O, well this and that were wrong\" Back in 2003, we were unsure. All the evidence showed that Sadam was hiding something. It was just too big a threat to ignore. Standing here and commenting on the past is usless. Think of the Iraq war as a maze. When we entered the maze, we were unsure of where to go and what we would find. Once you finish the maze, you cant just comment on what you should have done. Its easy for you to say \"You see, iraq didnt have nukes\". The events have already been lived!!! Yea, well prior to our invasion we didnt know. If we knew he didnt have them, we would have never attacked. Never. Not for oil or money. If we wanted that crap we would have taken Sadam out of power 15 years ago.

Anway, the point is that commenting on the past is fruitless because our government didnt know what it does today. But we had to find out for sure.

sorry, dude. I didn't see that

Originally Posted by Hard

No, Wolfee, you never answered my question. I think your resonse was along the lines of \"Yea, so what?\"

Yes, i do know how muslims think. Fanatical Muslims overthrow governments and instate their own opressive laws. Women are flogged with metal sticks for showing an ankle or finger. They execute their subjects without trial. They blindly follow the Koran and interperet it in their own way (the Koran is actually about peace and love. The holy war is supposed to be converting people by means of talking, not killing)Are you going to deny this? And no, i dont believe they are jealous of our freedom. The idea of freedom has never been present in the middle east, so how could they be jealous of it? To them, being opressed is just another aspect of life that they have dealt with for centuries.

About \"far right\" people. So far, Universal Mind is the only one who answered the post. So I put 1 and 1 together and said he is the most reasonable (so far). All of the others have just redirected with nonsence about Bush, corporations, oil, and the evil American government. I believe you cannot answer my question because you are stumped, and you know Sadam was hiding something. If not, you would have told me otherwise.

About we being the only reasonable people left on earth. It was a joke. Chill out. I could just as easily say you are dillusional.

So, Wolfee, are you going to give me an explaination of why Sadam was hiding bunkers? Lets get back on topic
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That's the best post I've seen you write yet, please keep it up (no sarcasm intended)!


This was my answer (admittedly in an elusive rhetorical question form)

If your country was about to be attacked because you were telling everyone you had WMDs, but the weapon inspectors said you had none, making you completely defenceless, wouldnt you?[/b]

Originally Posted by Neruo

Seriously, even one of the top UK generals said the war failed, American reports say the war has failed, the millions of people that have lost a family member (iraqee or american) say the war failed, the soldiers that came back sais the war failed, man, maybe it is bad enough that even Saddam's old minister of intelligence would say the war, fucking, failed.
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You really seem to be dying to believe that. Why? Seriously, why would that make you happy?

The future of Iraq will show that the war was successful and more necessary than too many people presently realize. We are not at a point in history where we can test the success of the war. But what I want to know is why you so much want to believe that the war is a failure. Note that I am not asking you why you think it. We have been over that. I want to know why you want the war to be a failure.

What do you hope ends up becoming of the government of Iraq?

Originally Posted by Neruo

Another thing. Why are you and I always persecuted for our beliefs? From a reasonable perspective, our arguments make complete sense, yet nobody listens to them, nor makes valid point. Instead, we are labled as war mongering, bush worshiping, America loving jackasses. Perhaps.....we are the only real humans left on earth. After the deadly liberal plague kills everybody off, it will be up to us to re-populate the earth..................you can be the woman...............
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Thank you for your positive remarks. You are very right about how we are persecuted for our beliefs. I always start out these discussions with complete civility and get more insulting the more I get insulted. I do my best every single time to be logical. I even ask people directly where the specific flaws in my arguments are and ask what they propose we do instead of what I propose we do. The responses I get usually don't involve the things I ask for. Counter arguments, answers, and alternative solutions seem to generally not be part of the anti-American discussion method. I am hated for supporting the things that will do the best of all alternatives to stop a future age of suicide bomber WMD's. The cause is extraordinarily legitimate, and I am suggesting specific solutions. The people who hate me for what I believe don't have any solutions to suggest, they rarely have counter arguments to give, and they rarely answer my questions but often insult me for mine. That is why I keep suggesting that the anti-Americanism is not about anti-violence. It is about something else. My top theory is that it is jealousy. Why else would they behave that way?

Any way, I very clearly laid out the reasons for the war in Iraq. If anybody has alternative suggestions or reasons to conclude that a suicide bomber government that is reported by six governments to have WMD's is not a reason for extreme alarm, please explain why. Try to open your mind and understand where we are coming from on this.

i know man. Its ridiculus. Not once has anybody, besides you, adressed my question. These people obviously value insulting Bush and America over saftey.

Jealosy? Maybe. I cannot say for sure, but i know they will always deny it.

For now, i say we just let them bicker, lie, and misconseve all they want. But when push comes to shove and a nuke finally gets used in their country, they will be kissing our feet from help. When that happens, i say America should offer no aid. We should send no troops to gather the wounded, and send no supplies to deal with radiation poisioning. Only then will they realize how important we are to the world. But because this is a time of peace in their countries, they see no reason for the US to be so prominent. But when things go wrong, who do you think they will ask for help from? Bush will be the first person they call. When Bush does send help, they will most likely whine about how he is not doing a good enough job. We should cut them off for a while so they can see how much they actually depend on Bush. We should become isolationist again, but that will never happen, due to our dependency on foreign objects. But atleast we wouldnt have to deal with other country\'s problems anymore.

we\'ll see when a bomb goes off. God forbid it\'s on US soil....

Crikey! This is the average southern bush supporter!...dont get to close to it now...it might hit you with its claws...

is it possible? I have come across a actual bush supporter? this is fantastic! you are something that...you know the kids talk about at school and I hear about...that they exist...but its kinda like the lockness monster...noone really believes they exist. I mean there are rumours...(one kid brought in a picture of some out in the wild, enjoying their natural habitat (it was in a walmart), claiming that the ppl in the picture supported bush..but yah we found out he just photoshopped it.) ...you know ive heard stories of like these deep southern woods/swamps and they're out there...prowling/lurking... hunting water rats..wearing large white nascar and daffyduck tshirts..supporting bush and doing all kinds of crazy stuff... but wow. a real live bush supporter?! this made my day. btw ive heard all these stories of you guys and your crazy mating rituals and burning of gays...is there any truth to thta?