Thread: Womens Rights In Western Society

My Question, not a statement.

At this current time, in Western society in general, do you beleive that women have the same opportuinities as males and ahve reached a state where the fight for rights is over, and basically they are considered in equal by society?

Please feel free to leave lengthy respnses explaining your answers =)

Imran

Edit: i realised I asked question 2, somewhere within question one
my apologies

I think (in my country anyway) that women have MORE rights, but FEWER opportunities. Meaning, that women have more legal rights and are more protected by the law, but in practice they have fewer opportunities depending on the field of employment and other factors. I think this is mainly due to tradition and popular culture.

The same goes for the native people of my country, the Maori. They have FAR more rights, but less opportunity, mainly because of lower socio-economic status.

Originally Posted by The

I think (in my country anyway) that women have MORE rights, but FEWER opportunities. Meaning, that women have more legal rights and are more protected by the law, but in practice they have fewer opportunities depending on the field of employment and other factors. I think this is mainly due to tradition and popular culture.

The same goes for the native people of my country, the Maori. They have FAR more rights, but less opportunity, mainly because of lower socio-economic status.
[/b]

I think you could say that applies here in the states too.

The average income for a woman is rising but is still substantially lower than a male. Also some fields are not too accepting to woman. Science and upper politics.

Many question the impact on families that woman have had by entering the work force.

I would have to do some research to know for sure. I know that there are certain jobs where men are generally preferred, like cops, bouncers, fire fighters, prison guards, professional athletes, and other areas where physical strength is highly important. Outside of that, I don't personally notice any differences. It seems that lawyers, doctors, teachers/professors, business managers/executives, restaurant staff, cashiers, travel agents, bank employees, and all of the other job areas where physical strength has nothing to do with anything don't involve any significant degree of sexism. I never give any thought to whether one of those is a man or woman, and I never hear anybody commenting on it. Maybe there's some kind of strange prejudice going on behind closed doors and closed mouths, but I haven't come across it.

Yeah I think that's quite a good point, Blue Meanie - generally speaking, women have the same rights as men in legislation, although there are many instances in which these laws aren't put into practice, or women get less opportunity simply because society hasn't changed enough.

There can be more things done for sure - especially regarding maternity leave. These days the biggest burden to a woman having a successful career is childeren because employers aren't offering enough flexibility. This also applies to paternity leave also, however. Men should be offered the same rights of leave to help raise a child as women, and this would help to ease the burden that mothers face.

In our politics lecture we talked about Scandanavia's maternity and paternity laws. From what I remember, they offered both men and women 12 month's leave for child-rearing. Male groups protested this, but not out of laziness. Instead, they wanted to make it compulsory for men to do at least six months of paternity leave in order to recieve other child-raising benefits because they wanted to change the perception of employers that if a man takes paternity leave he mustn't be very commited to his job. Things like this would help to make opportunities more equal - if it becomes more acceptable and common-place for males to take maternity leave, child-rearing becomes less of a burden to women.

Originally Posted by Roller

Yeah I think that's quite a good point, Blue Meanie - generally speaking, women have the same rights as men in legislation[/b]

Actually, that wasn't my point quite - I was saying that women don't merely have equal rights, they have MORE.

I think I've done about as well with my native ability as I could have, so I can't complain. I've gotten a lot of help from men and women both along the way, but probably more from men. I've had some irritations from men too, but overall much more good than bad, so I could never blame sexism for any failures I've had. I think I've had had an easier time under certain circumstances I've been in because of being a woman. I think being right at the tail end of the baby boomers has helped me a lot--a lot of women put out a lot of effort and went thru some hard times, and I got the benefit, while still being able to capitalize a little on being thought of as slightly disadvantaged. Maybe there were difficulties that I had due to my gender that I didn't recognize, but I don't think so. I think a lot of women don't take advantage of the opportunities that they have. So quick to throw it away for a man and some brats.

However I don't have that socialist agenda, so I may be atypical. I think (certain) people should quit expecting everybody else to work harder to subsidize their offspring. They want to take a year off work to have a baby, maybe I want to take a year off work to lay around drunk. We all have our preferred lifestyle choice that doesn't necessarily fit in with our careers. So, everyone make your choice and live with it, I say.

So to sum up: Yes. Not that certain people aren't discrimnated under certain circumstances, but overall the playing field is pretty level is you devote the same effort without expecting lots of concessions.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

However I don't have that socialist agenda, so I may be atypical. I think (certain) people should quit expecting everybody else to work harder to subsidize their offspring. They want to take a year off work to have a baby, maybe I want to take a year off work to lay around drunk. We all have our preferred lifestyle choice that doesn't necessarily fit in with our careers. So, everyone make your choice and live with it, I say.


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what a load of bull that is! no one is working harder so that someone else can take care of their offspring - youre still gonna work the same either way and your taxes will be the same either way. no one WANTS to take a year off work to raise a child. its not a choice, or do you expect a an expectant mother to be answering phone calls at a desk while in labor, let alone breast feeding in the office? btw, not all maternity leave deals means the mother will get paid - sometimes its just a gaurantee they will have a position when they are ready to get back. and there are a lot of times when that promise is broken.

I dont care if your symbol if pink, you do realize men can walk away from their child? women can't. they have to make a choice and neither one is easy. you do realize you are suggesting that while working you shouldnt have sex if pregnancy doesnt work with your work schedule? and you do realize once you are no longer living with your parents, youre gonna be working for the rest of your life right?w??

you do realize you are also suggesting that if parents cant find work, or they are lazy, the children should suffere extreme poverty with them since our taxes shouldnt go to children in poverty? sure, everyone should take responsibility for their actions, but that doesnt work for children does it? no child deserves to suffer for the mistakes their parents have made. and you do realize the reason why women might seem to have special rights over men is because - men arent the ones carrying a child for nine months are they????

as for the rest of the topic, I see women equality in general as the same as minority equality. its different from city to city and you can live your whole life as a female minority and never feel any racism or sexism. but in the end all of our presidents have been white males. and that should tell you something about our system - its probably the most racist and sexist of all.

I also feel there are a lot of cultural problems between the two sexes. I think ANYONE should have the right to reclaim their body, man or women. For example, no woman should have to put on makeup. It shouldnt be a necessity when you are around men, putting on makeup involves your own body so it should be a choice. The same goes for men. If they wanna dress nicer than the average man even when just hanging out with friends, why not? but I also feel females still practice false advertising and get pissed off when guys take it as an invitation to flirt.

I mean, HORMONES ARE REAL and that aint the fault of men. every female should know if they dont want to flirt with guys they should have SOME coverage on at the least. I'm happier not seeing 95% of your tits at that too.

Originally Posted by juroara

what a load of bull that is!
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No bull, I'm a libertarian.

Originally Posted by juroara

No one WANTS to take a year off work to raise a child. its not a choice
[/b]

Yes it is.

Originally Posted by juroara

but in the end all of our presidents have been white males. and that should tell you something about our system - its probably the most racist and sexist of all.
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You're right that things are probably a lot more sexist than I was realizing; I was thinking about my life and things I have wanted to do; I wasn't really thinking about a lot of other areas such as politics, etc. And I didn't say anything about racism, I think that is still a problem. However, I'm no historian or anthropologist, but if you think our society is the most sexist of all, you should learn a little more about the subject; that is just not true.

Originally Posted by juroara

For example, no woman should have to put on makeup.
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As far as I know, there are no laws that say they have to.

Originally Posted by juroara

I'm happier not seeing 95% of your tits at that too.
[/b]

Quit looking then.

(P.S. trying to fix up the quotes, so they are in the box rather than all spelled out like that)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("The Blue Meanie")</div>

Actually, that wasn&#39;t my point quite - I was saying that women don&#39;t merely have equal rights, they have MORE.[/b]

Whoops, my bad. I think that&#39;s true in a lot of cases, too, like what I was saying about maternity leave and in instances such as child custody. I know that in Australia our Labour party has a quota system to ensure that a certain amount of women are in the party. Such systems might have been useful a few decades ago, but now they are quite unfair.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Moonbeam")</div>

However I don&#39;t have that socialist agenda, so I may be atypical. I think (certain) people should quit expecting everybody else to work harder to subsidize their offspring. They want to take a year off work to have a baby, maybe I want to take a year off work to lay around drunk.[/b]

Well not entirely Socialist, more like Wet Liberal (in Australia at least). I think the whole reason for maternity/paternity leave in Aus is because of population problems and declining fertility.

But yeah I&#39;m not sure where the feminist movement is heading these days... seems to be this whole post-feminist stuff in society with people like Christina Aguilera etc pushing the whole re-sexualisation of the feminine body. It can get pretty confusing for guys - are we meant to see past a woman&#39;s body, or are we meant to respect a woman&#39;s sexual identity? Are we still allowed to hold doors open for women or is that a kind of patronising sexism?

For a man to get custody of a child in the event of a divorce is almost impossible. Why? The courts recognize woman and their maternal instincts. Why doesn&#39;t society?
Woman can have a man arrested for concocting or falsely fabricating an abuse or molestation charge. It does not work so the other way around.
This may be some of the examples The Blue Meanie is proposing?

Had woman not become a part of the work force many feel that family values would be stronger than they are today. Less inflation a more structured work force and leveled pay scale.

Originally Posted by Howetzer

For a man to get custody of a child in the event of a divorce is almost impossible. Why? The courts recognize woman and their maternal instincts. Why doesn&#39;t society?
Woman can have a man arrested for concocting or falsely fabricating an abuse or molestation charge. It does not work so the other way around.[/b]

Yes. I&#39;m not PROTESTING against it, because I&#39;m not convinced that on average it&#39;s a bad thing. But these would be a few examples. Others are maternal leave laws (which are actually equal in some countries, not sure about my own) and rape law, the last of which DOES need reform: in my country, up until fairly recently the law did not recognise heterosexual rape of men by women - very seldom is this actually a problem, but it&#39;s legally important for ALL rape law, in particular the need to differentiate sexual arousal from consent.

Originally Posted by The

Yes. I&#39;m not PROTESTING against it, because I&#39;m not convinced that on average it&#39;s a bad thing. But these would be a few examples. Others are maternal leave laws (which are actually equal in some countries, not sure about my own) and rape law, the last of which DOES need reform: in my country, up until fairly recently the law did not recognise heterosexual rape of men by women - very seldom is this actually a problem, but it&#39;s legally important for ALL rape law, in particular the need to differentiate sexual arousal from consent.[/b]

I can see how this came to be. Under most circumstances the male is physically superior. That pertaining to some of the above topics. This alone makes it hard to maintain equality.
Socially many woman had not the same rights as man throughout history. As a result they have struggled to maintain an equal social status as man.

Although men and woman have their differences. Their good attributes and bad.
People are beginning to realize that woman are as capable as men in areas such as science. it was very recently believed that men were better suited in a literal/physical sense. Meaning they were mentally better suited for the job.
Perhaps they are currently - only because they have been driven in that direction, where as woman were not.

To the contrary though. Does nature have a role for a man and a woman?

Just to chip i.
Hes right about the president issue
And also religion helps tint the world to as exist angle aswell,
I dont want to turn this into a religious discussion, but how many female popes?
Imams?
Spirtiual leaders?
and if you truly believe, like Ido that women are jsut as intelligent as men.
Why wen we say name a famous scientist are the frist names that come into our head, einstien, Darwin, Netwon.
Because simply men have more chances.
Why when we say facist dictator do we say Hitler, Mussolini.
men have more opportunities
Why when I say great poets do you say, Edgar Allen Poe?
My point I beleive is made lol.

Nowe we can either attribute this to a lack of opportunities amongst women
or
a loack of intelligence

I vote opportunities
yes?



Imran

Originally Posted by imran_p

And also religion helps tint the world to as exist angle aswell,
I dont want to turn this into a religious discussion, but how many female popes?
Imams?
Spirtiual leaders?
[/b]

Yea but who cares.

Originally Posted by imran_p

Why wen we say name a famous scientist are the frist names that come into our head, einstien, Darwin, Netwon.
Because simply men have more chances.
Why when we say facist dictator do we say Hitler, Mussolini.
men have more opportunities
Why when I say great poets do you say, Edgar Allen Poe?
My point I beleive is made lol.

Nowe we can either attribute this to a lack of opportunities amongst women
or
a loack of intelligence

I vote opportunities
yes?
Imran
[/b]

Well yea...I thought you were talking about right now...I don&#39;t think that anybody would argue that women had a lack of opportunities in the past.

Well name a women president now
actuallu even now most of my comparisons hold
I dont deny there are expections but they still hold
and I assume religious females care about the first one =)
Imran

Originally Posted by imran_p

Well name a women president now
actuallu even now most of my comparisons hold
I dont deny there are expections but they still hold
and I assume religious females care about the first one =)
Imran
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I already admitted that I was somewhat wrong about things in general. I said I was mostly thinking of myself and my life in my first post, rather than all of society, and also about opportunities that young women have now and in the future. It does take some time for things to appear to be perfectly equal, I would think, even after opportunities have been opened up, so I don&#39;t think just becaue we don&#39;t immediately elect a women president, it is due to discrimination. Maybe it is because the woman is a slimy pandering liar who will do and say anything for power (cough hillary clinton).

Ellen Johnson-Sirleaf, Liberia, first female president in Africa (2005)
Michelle Bachelet, Chile, first female president in South America by popular vote (2005)

A long way ahead what we call western world.

And don&#39;t forget about MAD DOG Hil Clinton

Hahaha
Nice Pic Ne-yo of Billary Clinton

Originally Posted by Howetzer

Hahaha
Nice Pic Ne-yo of Billary Clinton
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Thank ya sir&#33; I saw it and I fell over laughing I had to post it..LOL