Thread: Defending Yourself

Self defence methods are too complex for the average Joe, I reckon.

Who's gonna be ready to grab some thug's opposite wrist from the opposite-outside of the hand and rotate it before the guy can resist? In the end, going for the eyes with everything you have will a) disarm them, b) save you from any further attacking c) mean they are completely disabled without killing them d) preventing them from any future attempts at this kinda thing e) permanent punishment.

All ya gotta do is leap on them like a crazed facehugger from the film Alien, and you'll completely obliterate any threat.

Not that I don't think martial arts are great, but average people just dont think about or practice them to the extent that they'd actually work as effectively as in training!

Originally Posted by Wolffe

Not that I don't think martial arts are great, but average people just dont think about or practice them to the extent that they'd actually work as effectively as in training!
[/b]

That's why guns are better.

Regardless of the size and hardness of the grip, a 38 special +P is weak. My 2 and 1/2 inch .454 would probably break your hand, or my friends 4 inch S&W 500. Also 40's can hold as many rounds as you can find a clip for. My friend keeps a 15 round clip in his 40 at all times, it extends a little, but big deal. Like Oneironaut said, lots of sports are full of pain and injury, but most athletes enojy what they do despite the risks. Its in their genetics to be able to withstand pain and injury. Fighters are not only be born with the ability to take damage, they have to train ridiculously hard. So fighters deserve recognition and admiration, which is exactly what they get as being professionals. I agree too many people may be hoping to see someone get permenately injured, but that doesn't mean there isn't tons of fans who just enjoy watching the talent and skills of the best fighters on the planet. I'm just saying you shouldn't make a generalization when they are many different view points amongst all the MMA or Boxing fans. Its like saying all racing fans are idiots because they are all just waiting for someone to crash.

Originally Posted by imaginefication

Regardless of the size and hardness of the grip, a 38 special +P is weak. My 2 and 1/2 inch .454 would probably break your hand, or my friends 4 inch S&W 500. [/b]

I saw a guy on TV shoot one (the 500); that was pretty cool but it did look painful. The local gun shop's got one, so I looked at it. I don't think I'd need that unless I was in danger from grizzly bears; otherwise that's just over-kill, don't you think? What do you mean, the +P is weak? I think it is a fine belly-gun, anybody I shot with that I would be touching. Actually I guess they would be touching me. Any farther than that, forget about it

Originally Posted by imaginefication

Also 40's can hold as many rounds as you can find a clip for. [/b]

Actually I was thinking of a .45. (In the April 07 issue of Guns & Ammo there is an intersting comparison of the 1911 .45 vs. the Beretta M9; with the Beretta being the winner in the author's opinion.)

Originally Posted by imaginefication

Its like saying all racing fans are idiots because they are all just waiting for someone to crash.
[/b]

Yea, so? Isn't that true? ACtually, I pretty much think that no matter what they are watching it for. (Run away!!!!!&#33

Ya, full power .454 or 500 rounds are deffinetly over kill, I keep my .454 loaded with strong colt 45 rounds when I carry it, but I do carry extra .454 rounds just incase I ever need to shoot through a row of cars or something, and its really fun to shoot the big rounds when target practicing, makes you very accurate at lower calibers. I agree 38sp +P is a good self defense round, it just feels like blanks to me because I am used to strong stuff, the first gun I ever shot was an 18" 12 gauge with a small hard plastic pistol grip, filled with 3" magnum slugs, so anything below 357 mag is like a kids toy. Okay, you are probably right about the racing fans, i should have used a better analogy.

I'm still trying to figure out this thread... the creator didn't even mention self-defense AT ALL, he said half a sentence of opinion.

Boxing's a great sport, there's actually alot of...I wouldn't say science, but there's tons of strategy. Just 75% of the people who watch, know what it is. I think Thai Boxing is a little more technical. But that's because they don't limit themselves to just the hands, so they have alot more counters, defense, ect.. But I'm biased as I used to train in it

and Jeet Kune Do is NOT a style..it's a philosophy. Pisses me off when i hear someone call jeet kune do a style.
In fact most JKD schools are FULL OF IT. Bruce Lee's style was called Jeet Kune Do, It's not anyone else's. The whole concept of Jeet Kune Do, is that he could not teach you Jeet Kune Do.. It was a philosophy of taking away what you couldn't do and take in what you could. All JKD schools are nowadays are the same styles being regurgitated (Kickboxing, Wing Chun, Silat, generic knife denfense, and some grappling art) they were all brought into the JKD "system" from the upper tier friends of bruce lee. If Bruce Lee could only see what JKD has become today...he'd roll over in his grave. Twice.

For me Defending yourself comes from three things.

1. Awareness - Being aware of your surrondings. Shady looking People, escape routes, places to go for help.

2. Preperation - Physical preperation (working out, especially cardio), escape routes could go here too, something legal to give you the upperhand if nessessary (Knife, Mace, Gun) helps too

3. Mental attitude - This has to do with NOT being afraid to get hit...which of course most people are, protecting your vitals (chin, jawline, temple) will stop you from WTF-KTFO. It also has to do with being able to 'explode' on someone, pushing the pace into your fight (which can mean overwhelming them with strikes, while continuing to move forward). There's also a profiling that criminals use agianst "marks" based on how people carry themselves (people with their hands in their pockets & an not making eyecontact are considered to be signs of a easy mark. People who are confident, walk with a wide posture (legs wider than normal), arms swinging more carefree, and 'eyeballing' people as you walk.

Try walking down the street and simply looking at other pedestrians, you'd be amazed at how many people simply drop their head or turn to look away to avoid eye contact. These are considered easy 'marks' because it shows by non-verbal communication that they are not willing to dominate AND they've also looked away giving the criminal (you in this case) the surprise advantage.

Other then that it's common sense. Learn to walk the f*** away! One time when I lived in Knoxville. I was approached by some guy at a gas station when i was going for cigarettes. I came out of the brush to walk through the gas station's car wash (it was the quickest route from my house). This guy about average height (i'm 6'0'', slightly taller than average). Did exactly what I was talking about. He stood with a WIDE stance, waiting for me to approach him and stared at me the entire time...I wasn't liking where this was going so I completely avoided the car wash and walked about 300-500 ft. out of my way to walk around the brush to the other side of the store...when I got next to the door of the gas station I walked towards the pumps until I could see the guy agian.. He was basicly standing around looking shady, BUT from this perspective I saw 2 more guys waiting for nothing. So I got my smokes and walked home, later one of my friends came by and said that the cops were all around the gas station. So whatever...

Turns out some unlucky guy, got stabbed that day in the car wash by 3 suspects
He ended up surviving the ordeal despite being stabbed in the chest 3 times. That night on the local news guess who matched the description...

Moral of the story:
1) Think before you enter a situation that looks odd, even if you think you can take the guy.
2) ALWAYS follow your gut instinct. It's ussually right and if it isn't 400 ft. out of your way is better than being stabbed 3 times.

EDIT: LOL ok, i just re-read the first post..forgot to read the part about it being a split subject..
sorry about the above, guess the topic starter isn't crazy, that was honestly weirding me out

Well said. I agree about JKD too.



Imagine 38's next to these monsters.

Originally Posted by imaginefication

Ya, full power .454 or 500 rounds are deffinetly over kill, I keep my .454 loaded with strong colt 45 rounds when I carry it, but I do carry extra .454 rounds just incase I ever need to shoot through a row of cars or something.[/b]

Kind of hard to hide that in your pants, isn't it! When I got the Airlite, I wanted something tiny yet powerful (enough) and reliable. It only weighs 7 oz (titanium), but it hold 5 rounds of .38 special. (I hadn't heard of the +P round until I got that gun, so I've never shot it in anything with any weight to it; probably wouldn't be as painful.) The hammer is shrouded so there is nothing for it to get caught on. So for the purpose I wanted it for I think it is ideal.

It really is funny to watch people shoot it, it is unexpectedly (but not dangerously) painful. I thought the 500 was for a bear so I guess it does hurt but in that situation you probably wouldn't notice. Doesn't look like fun at the range tho.

(Edit: Decided repeating anecdote about .357 and a grizzly bear was inappropriate.)

(RE: racing--I thought I had asked for it! Guess there aren't as many racing fans as boxing.)

Yup they shoot em' full of holes and pump em' full of lead. The Badass gun toteing characters of the real sesame street. The whole Posse' is in full effect and ready to bust a cap on anyone who messes with Mr. Snuffulupagus.

That ^^^^^^^looks more like offense than defense.

Do you think the concealed weapon permit is a good idea?

Originally Posted by Howitzer

Do you think the concealed weapon permit is a good idea?
[/b]

Are you asking me? Are you giving me advice? Or asking my opinion?

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Are you asking me? Are you giving me advice? Or asking my opinion[/b]

That was kind of vague.
It was a general question to all.

I am a gun advocate, enthusiast and collector, however my opinions very on the concealed weapon permit.
Much like the Ten day waiting period, I believe it is just another method for the Government to allocate funds from sportsman.

Most people that I know , even the ones who I have shot with and are safe I am not so sure they are ready to be put in any position with A - an offender and B> a gun.
I am not sure I am ready and guns are as familiar to me as DV.
You can teach someone safety but not common sense.

If you have a loaded weapon it ca put you in a very volatile and vicarious position very quickly.
There are obvious positions people have that you would easily recognize their need for a sidekick.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

That's why guns are better.
[/b]

They aren't better since they aren't defensive weapons!

Originally Posted by Wolffe

They aren't better since they aren't defensive weapons![/b]

A possible deterrent.
And read a few articles from "armed citizen" and see how defensive they can be.

This is the .454 I own, its the smallest one I know of. Its only 41oz. Very easy to carry and conceal.
I also carry a .357, either on my ankle or in an x harness. Here is a picture of it.



Its 25 1/2 oz. , still hardly noticable to carry, but heavy enough to prevent flipping, so you can rapid fire accurately.

I have a conealed permit so I can hide my backup guns, but I usually open carry one too, which doesn't require a permit in Indiana. There is also no waiting period here. I think it should go back to the old days where every man open carries, it is the main reason crime rate was so low, even though there were hardly any cops and no forensic or surveillance technology. It is why the old west bank robbers are so famous, because they were so rare, not many people had the nuts to rob a bank when it was guarenteed to be a massive gun battle, now a days anyone can try to rob a bank, because at the most there is a few security guards. Same goes with house robbery and many other crimes, criminals aren't scared to do it anymore because they know most people aren't ready to shoot them. I don't rely completely on guns, I still work out and have studied some martial arts, but if I have the option I will always choose a gun first to defend myself, most criminals will back down at the sight of one. In some situations you can just shoot a round into the ground its going to send most predators running. I would only shoot someone if I really had to. EDIT- ofcourse unless someone breaks into my house, then they are getting a couple 3" triple ought buckshots in their ass with no questions asked.

Originally Posted by Wolffe

They aren't better since they aren't defensive weapons!
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What do you mean? How are they less defensive than any other weapon or even just hitting somebody? It's defensive if you are using it to defend yourself, right? I guess only armor would be really considered defensive, is that what you mean?

Howitzer--is it not true that crime has gone down in every state that concealed carry has been legalized? I don't think there are many states left that haven't done it. I think it is true (that crime has gone down), but other people say that is not the reason, so I'm not sure if it gets the credit or not. Either way, it hasn't caused any harm, and I'm for it. It ought to go across state lines tho.

imaginefication - nice! That .454 looks like it would be comforting to have in the sleeping bag when you're camping. I didn't know it came in a two-inch barrel; the 500 I saw had a 6 or 8 inch; it was huge--I was laughing thinking about somebody carrying that around! Yours looks much more managable. A least to carry, if not to shoot. Another revolver person--I have always felt better with a revolver; the 9mm is cool and fun on the range, but IRL I always worry about jamming. Also shooting myself. I guess if I can't save myself in 6 rounds (or 5 as the case may be), it's not going to happen.

2" 500


4" 500

The 2" is only available with a survival kit, thats why the silly grip, but you can get a custom one.
But unless you are shootin 500 special or you are extremely strong, it is pretty ridiculous.

I do wear workout gloves when I shoot 454 rounds at the range to make it a little more comfortable, but the grip is great, there isn't much bite. It is deffinetly a lot of fun to shoot, though at the range its so loud it can cause a comotion. When I look out the range windows I can see people in the store with their hands over their ears. At this range there are few people who shoot anything over 44mag for whatever reason. It is expensive to shoot the 454 a lot, so I also shoot lots of 357.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

What do you mean? How are they less defensive than any other weapon or even just hitting somebody? It's defensive if you are using it to defend yourself, right? I guess only armor would be really considered defensive, is that what you mean?

Howitzer--is it not true that crime has gone down in every state that concealed carry has been legalized? I don't think there are many states left that haven't done it. I think it is true (that crime has gone down), but other people say that is not the reason, so I'm not sure if it gets the credit or not. Either way, it hasn't caused any harm, and I'm for it. It ought to go across state lines tho.

imaginefication - nice! That .454 looks like it would be comforting to have in the sleeping bag when you're camping. I didn't know it came in a two-inch barrel; the 500 I saw had a 6 or 8 inch; it was huge--I was laughing thinking about somebody carrying that around! Yours looks much more managable. A least to carry, if not to shoot. Another revolver person--I have always felt better with a revolver; the 9mm is cool and fun on the range, but IRL I always worry about jamming. Also shooting myself. I guess if I can't save myself in 6 rounds (or 5 as the case may be), it's not going to happen.
[/b]

A gun isn't a defensive weapon because it is built to kill/seriously maim. It is also built for range so is thus also aggressive as you're making the decision to attack before anyone else has a chance to attack. Because of both of these factors, it makes the gun weilder aggressive, rather than defensive, unless you're in a war situation with other gun-wielding attackers! With a melee weapon or martial art or whatever, it can be used defensively to block, parry, etc. and can only be used at close range where the attacker is an obvious threat. I'm not against guns or anything, but I dont think it can really be called self-defence!

p.s. since its getting gun-nutty in here, I might as well join in...

S&W 686 8" FOR ME ;D

This is my favorite long barreled gun, the ruger 7 1/2" .454 super redhawk

My favourite, The Brick - 215 x 102.5 x 65 mm (8.5 x 4 x 2.5 inches).

But for real, I have one of those hun bows - Looks like this one.
And a longbow.

Originally Posted by Wolffe

A gun isn't a defensive weapon because it is built to kill/seriously maim. It is also built for range so is thus also aggressive as you're making the decision to attack before anyone else has a chance to attack. Because of both of these factors, it makes the gun weilder aggressive, rather than defensive, unless you're in a war situation with other gun-wielding attackers! With a melee weapon or martial art or whatever, it can be used defensively to block, parry, etc. and can only be used at close range where the attacker is an obvious threat. I'm not against guns or anything, but I dont think it can really be called self-defence!
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It's self-defense if that is the only way you use it. Just because you can use it at a distance, doesn't mean you will. Besides what if there was a threat to someone at a distance? In which case it would come in handy. Not everyone carries around a "melee weapon" or knows martial-arts.

Ha haha bonsay lol

Originally Posted by imaginefication

This is my favorite long barreled gun, the ruger 7 1/2" .454 super redhawk
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That is one sweet gun. I like Rugers anyway. But I am particularly fond of the not fluted cylinder. The grips make a good Addition too.

I shot a .50 cal Desert Eagle at the range. It was hilarious. I shot three rounds and looked. everyone in the place, about 7 people all stopped shooting and were looking over at me.
The things just not right man.