9/11 Conspiracy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by memeticverb

Just to summarize, here are a couple points UM and Half Dreaming have not even engaged, let alone given arguments against.

1) FBI translator Sibel Edmonds, has along with many other FBI agents, blown the whistle on top officials within the FBI, saying they have supported terrorists and protected them.

Her claims were reviewed and confirmed by the Justice Department, but all efforts since this have been blocked by Attorney General without cause.

---

I did talk about that in the the thread about Al Qaeda's supposed nonexistence. You should start reading the responses you request. Supposedly some disgruntled FBI agents who probably need jobs and probably want book money said some crazy things about classified subject matter. Wow, that proves once and for all that Bush put bombs in the World Trade Center that he could blow up as soon as remote control airpanes hit the towers after robots posed as pilots and talked to the other workers on the airplanes and communicated with the workers on the runways and caused the buildings to collapse in such a way that you know a bomb had to have done it but the engineers, constructions supervisors, and demolition experts of the world are not engaged in any major chatter because the government was willing to take that kind of risk with what would be the biggest news story of all time. No, I don't agree with you. But you are welcome to finally answer my questions and counter my points, if you think you can. I don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by memeticverb

2) FBI AGENT ROBERT WRIGHT SAYS FBI AGENTS ASSIGNED TO INTELLIGENCE OPERATIONS CONTINUE TO PROTECT TERRORISTS FROM CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS

---

Oh, a guy said that. I can't believe so much is known by an agent who is too low on the totem pole to know about certain classified information. Well then screw the thousands of other agents and CIA workers and everybody else who says otherwise. Terrorists are treated as prisoners of war in most cases, and a great deal of the information concerning them is classified. We are at war. How would that prove that 9/11 was an inside job? And what would terrorists have to do with this if terrorists were not responsible for 9/11?

And where is the big chatter among construction/demolition professionals? And where is the major chatter from government workers (about a 9/11 coverup, not just any supposed corruption you think you have found)? And who faked the hostile takeover on flight 93? And who showed up for work posing as pilots? And who flew those airplanes? And why was the government willing to roll such risky dice? And why do you keep dodging these questions?

Talk about not reading the posts your trying to respond to!! LOL

Sibel Edmonds' evidence, as already pointed, out was CONFIRMED by the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. They verified her information, and her case was going to court proceeding. THEN, Ashcroft placed gag orders on her. THEN he even gagged the congress from further hearing any of her evidence, or even mentioning anything about her case like the languages she spoke!

UM, you are hopelessly in denial. So whats YOUR crackpot reason for why Sibel Edmonds is the most gagged person in history? Oh yeah, she is supposedly just a disgruntled ex-FBI who is absolutely no threat to those in power right?? :rolleyes:

Her case will almost certainly go to the Supreme Court. Her allegations are so damning, and since already verified by evidence as first presented to congress and the Justice Department (then retroactively classified), they will lead, according to Daniel Ellsberg (you know who that is right UM? lol) criminal indictment of Ashcroft himself for failing to meet the criteria for having sufficient reason o place the gag orders.

And it gets WORSE.

The Judge "randomly assigned" to both of Sibel Edmonds federal cases was a long-time Bush insider. (and also the Judge in the "Scooter" Libby case). This person, Judge Walton, has had his entire financial statement redacted.

Less than 1% of Judges have their financial disclosure statements hidden...

"In July 2004, Judge Reggie Walton disposed of Edmonds’ First Amendment case on the basis of the government’s assertion of State Secrets Privilege. On the same day as the decision, Judge Walton quashed a subpoena for Edmonds’ deposition by attorneys representing over 1,000 family members who lost love ones during the terrorist attacks on 9/11. In limiting the deposition in the case, Burnett et al. v. Al Baraka Investment & Development Corp., Judge Walton prevented the 9/11 attorneys from asking a majority of the proposed questions related to the attacks."

Let's just assume that every bit of that is true. Every bit of it. Yeah. How the Hell does that prove that 9/11 was a government operation?

And please answer the questions I have asked you.

Your question has already been answered, ten-fold. Can you simply state just one of Sibel Edmonds' allegations?? Then you will have your answer.

You will also know why a large group of 911 Family members had requested her as a primary witness, but of course, were gagged and denied by the same Judge Walton.. Do you read anything??


Sibel Edmonds Interview
"Some respected, great Representatives, Democratic Congressmen, have expressed interest in my case. The leader of that group was Congressman Henry Waxman (D-Calif.), and I briefed his staff several times, by giving them the same details I gave five years ago to the Judiciary Committee. They obtained the classified version of the Inspector General’s report two years ago and they were outraged. I have several letters from Congressman Waxman saying he finds these gag orders stunning and that the Republicans were preventing a hearing from taking place on my case. Well, in January, after we went through the change [in Congress], Congressman Waxman is now Chairman Waxman and there is no power within Congress that can prevent him from holding this hearing. He has the jurisdiction, the authority to put the hearing there, and I have already obtained the consent and names of conscientious, good agents. One of them was the head of the Turkish counter-intelligence operations who actually retired two years ago. They’re all willing to come forward and testify on all the issues I have been gagged on. And that gag doesn’t work in Congress during a hearing.

So in January, after the election results, especially since we have such a great Chairman today, 30 organizations have put together this petition addressed to Chairman Waxman saying you have been promising us for the past five years. These are major organizations, and we call them transpartisan, because there are organizations from the right, organizations from the left, organizations that are whistleblower-related such as the Project on Government Oversight (POGO), the Government Accountability Project (GAP), the National Whistleblower Center, human rights organizations, the National Coalition Against Censorship (NCAC), civil liberties-related organizations such as the American Civil Liberties union (ACLU). We have 30 solid organizations. According to the ACLU, there has been no case of an American citizen who has had so many gag orders issued on her.

We also had 15,000 citizens sign the petition, and they delivered it to Chairman Waxman’s office in March 2007, just over a month ago. And based on the office’s own report, tens of thousands of people in the past 3-4 weeks have called to say, well, when are you going to hold a hearing?"

Sibel Edmonds: Still Fighting for 911 Truth

Let's say that's for real. What are your answers to my questions?
Saying they are answered is not the same as answering them. What are your answers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

And where is the big chatter among construction/demolition professionals? And where is the major chatter from government workers (about a 9/11 coverup, not just any supposed corruption you think you have found)? And who faked the hostile takeover on flight 93? And who showed up for work posing as pilots? And who flew those airplanes? And why was the government willing to roll such risky dice? And why do you keep dodging these questions?

---

Hello?

I would like to ask, where were the explosives in the twin towers placed?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Hello?

---

The answer to those is. I don't know. The risky dice thing makes sense. They made sure that people would think it was a jihad invasion. They got what they wanted, the war of terror thing.

I have a question for you. Don't you want to know the truth? Do you even look at the facts, evidence the "conspiracy theorists" present. Don't tell me that when you see all the info you still don't see a reason to even doubt, just a little bit. Are you going to believe them, just because you're waiting for someone who took part in the inside job to stand up and speak. I know you're smart, but why blind yourself. It's true that I should be open minded, but with all I've seen I just can't believe the usual Osama did it because he's evil truth.

Half/Dreaming, for what it's worth:
Core column pic
There are also videos of people talking about explosions and some videos showing the probable explosions themselves (the one on the base or the other ones, I'm no professional).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonsay

The answer to those is. I don't know. The risky dice thing makes sense. They made sure that people would think it was a jihad invasion. They got what they wanted, the war of terror thing.

I have a question for you. Don't you want to know the truth? Do you even look at the facts, evidence the "conspiracy theorists" present. Don't tell me that when you see all the info you still don't see a reason to even doubt, just a little bit. Are you going to believe them, just because you're waiting for someone who took part in the inside job to stand up and speak. I know you're smart, but why blind yourself. It's true that I should be open minded, but with all I've seen I just can't believe the usual Osama did it because he's evil truth.

---

If my government pulled that superhorrendous act, which really wigged me out personally and shook up almost all of the people I know and care about for a long time, making us worry our asses off about our country having to go to war, possibly a world war, and face future terrorist acts where tens or hundreds of thousands of Americans or more could be killed in single attacks, then HELL YEAH I want to know. That would be very huge. I'm not shutting out the possibility of it. I am asking questions to try to understand the concept better, and I get almost nothing but evasiveness and insults. Do you know what the conversation in the last few pages of this thread reminds me of? It reminds me of the Religion forum. I am talking to people who passionately spew out their extreme views, and when I ask the most relevant questions that can be asked, I get flipped off and avoided. I am not merely trying to cross examine people and back them into corners. I really want to understand the areas where I think the logic fails, just like I do with Christianity. This is just like arguing with Keeper and Jeremysr. Since the very interesting and extremely serious notion has been thrown at me like I am a bastard of the universe for not believing it, I want to know how airplane and airport staff were fooled into thinking there were pilots on those airplanes. I want to know why construction and demolition experts all over the world are not engaged in large scale chatter, or even small scale chatter, just trace chatter. The only evidence I see has to do with tiny minorities of experts and large masses of nowhere near experts saying stuff about how boards and beams should have fallen and how a few firemen heard a loud noise when what used to be the two tallest buidings in the world were in the process of collapsing, and how some of the information about our most serious national security issue of all time is classified. That doesn't cut it for me, so I have to ask questions. I want to know why my government would take such an INSANE risk in order to bring about an incredibly controversial war. I want to know why government officials have not leaked that they were involved in the biggest horror stunt of all time. Not one wife or best friend! I want to know who is leading the major terrorist organization our soldiers are fighting in Iraq if it's not Bin Laden and Al-Zawihiri. I want to know who Al-Zarqawi really was. I want to know who Khallid Sheik Muhammed really was. I want to know who all of those people in Guantanamo Bay and the Iraq POW camps are. This is the most insane conspiracy theory I have ever seen masses of people take seriously, outside of religion. I want to understand the idea in such a way that all of my doubts about it have been cleared up. But I don't get much more than evasions and insults about how closed-minded I supposedly am, when really I am begging for my mind to be filled with answers. I am not getting them. I am dealing with a religion.

Yes it is a religion. But a religion is a theory, this is a hypothesis. Look, I can't get any of the info you want. I could dedicate my life and become eternaly marked as the conspiracy theorist who believes that Hitler is on the moon. Only that way I could get you the answers you want and even then I might never get them. I want to know all those things as well, everything you ask I have interest in aswell. Call me closed-minded, but you see I have a little switch that clicks when something makes enough sense to be real. Yes my opinions are very subjective, I'm not american, but this which I believe is true makes me quite angry. I could also look at it objectively and even when I do it all looks like an inside job. I want to know why wasn't anything done when the planes were hijacked, I want to know why didn't they send military planes to intercept the planes, I want to know why the military had hijack exercises that day, I want to know what's the deal with the supossed hijackers who supossedly couldn't even fly a plane, I want to know why some of the hijackers are still alive, I want to know why did the buildings fall while being built to withstand a direct hit by a plane, why did people feel, see, get hurt by explosions under the WTC, why were there signs of controlled demolitions, why is there only one pentagon video when there were many other cameras filming the plane or impact, why is there no plane visible in the pentagon, why is there so little damage.... I have as many questions as you. The technique "consipracy theorists" talk about was used before. Make it look like you were attacked, brainwash people, do what you want and they'll support you. It really isn't something new. The people might be "religious" but the "theory" isn't.

I still hold that if explosives were planted in the basement, the towers would have fallen like WTC 7 (the entire building would drop, and floors would cush from the lowest floors to the highest floors. Instead, the basements were the last to see damage)

The conspiracy theorists have formed into a cult. In the end, the evidence is overwhealming in support of the Al Qaeda theory, and is the result of all different government intelligence. It really makes me sick that people allow their own selfishness and need for self worth to point the finger in the exact wrong direction.

In the end, who had more to gain from 9/11? People who want oil, or people who want us dead? And so what if we are controlling oil over there? Iraq and Afghanistan will be better because of it.

Sorry, I just don't see the overwhelming evidence.
I don't think it's sick that people want the truth. The last time I checked the country is owned by the people (should be). If the people want something they should get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Sorry, I just don't see the overwhelming evidence.
I don't think it's sick that people want the truth. The last time I checked the country is owned by the people (should be). If the people want something they should get it.

---

Have you seen videos of the people that run 9/11truth.com/.org? They are up on their podiums screaming and yelling incoherant crap all over the place. These people think the people responsible for 9/11 are the same people that killed JFK. They get sick pleasure from it.

The reason you don't see overwhealming evidence is because the majority of evidence is so simple, it gets overlooked. ALL the conspiracy theories have never been proven. We "Al Qaeda theorists" have videos and signed papers from Osama bin Laden admitting to masterminding the attacks. We have phonecalls from the people on hijacked planes. What do conspiracy theorists have? It looks like maybe there were explosions here?

I watched a show on the history channel last night called "9/11 Conspiracy Theories: Fact or Fiction". They went though and thouroughly debunked every single conspiracy theory with overwhealming expert opinion. If I can find a link, I will post it.

I will also say again that anyone who believes explosives were placed in the BASEMENT is extremely stupid.

Whose winning?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sandform

Whose winning?

---

Its not even a contest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sandform

Whose winning?

---

I am winning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonsay

I am winning.

---

Which side are you on?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sandform

Which side are you on?

---

The hippy side:)

I don't know if it is too late to post this, or if someone else already has, but here are some websites to clear up the whole 9/11 conspiracy. Here is a halarious maddox arcticle about the conspiracy if you're up for a good laugh, it's also where I got the websites below.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...w/1227842.html

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonsay

Yes it is a religion. But a religion is a theory, this is a hypothesis. Look, I can't get any of the info you want. I could dedicate my life and become eternaly marked as the conspiracy theorist who believes that Hitler is on the moon. Only that way I could get you the answers you want and even then I might never get them. I want to know all those things as well, everything you ask I have interest in aswell. Call me closed-minded, but you see I have a little switch that clicks when something makes enough sense to be real. Yes my opinions are very subjective, I'm not american, but this which I believe is true makes me quite angry. I could also look at it objectively and even when I do it all looks like an inside job. I want to know why wasn't anything done when the planes were hijacked, I want to know why didn't they send military planes to intercept the planes, I want to know why the military had hijack exercises that day, I want to know what's the deal with the supossed hijackers who supossedly couldn't even fly a plane, I want to know why some of the hijackers are still alive, I want to know why did the buildings fall while being built to withstand a direct hit by a plane, why did people feel, see, get hurt by explosions under the WTC, why were there signs of controlled demolitions, why is there only one pentagon video when there were many other cameras filming the plane or impact, why is there no plane visible in the pentagon, why is there so little damage.... I have as many questions as you. The technique "consipracy theorists" talk about was used before. Make it look like you were attacked, brainwash people, do what you want and they'll support you. It really isn't something new. The people might be "religious" but the "theory" isn't.

---

I am not lumping you in with the fanatics because you have shown that you can control yourself and are able to consider other views. The difference between the questions you posed and mine is that mine are rooted in undeniable facts. There are videos of Bin Laden and Al-Zawihiri, and I asked who they are. That is not the same as asking why some of the hijackers are still alive. BL and AZ are on video, or else actors playing them are on video. My question about who in the world they are is a question about undeniable reality, the reality that there are men in those videos. The idea that hijackers are still alive is not something undeniable. It is in a category with Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. It is just like the claim that Elvis Presley is still alive. It sounds just like a Christian asking how Jesus rose from the dead and floated away. The same goes for those other questions, except the one about no military airplanes trying to shoot down Flight 93. The government most likely did prepare to do that and saw that it wasn't necessary, but that is not the type of thing they want to discuss with the public. It would not be necessary to discuss it, but it would be very freaky information for the families of the victims. I know for sure that the hijackers could fly planes. They attended flight schools in the U.S. There was a lot of discussion about that early on by the people who attended those schools with them. Experts have explained away all of the issues you raised, but I have yet to see anybody explain away most of the issues I raised. A large commercial passenger airplane doesn't just take off without pilots flying it without anybody noticing. Things that dime a dozen experts would understand are not going to be ignored by the masses of experts when those things are a part of the huge lie the government has been telling about the biggest news story of all time. The Al Qaeda theory has a ton more solidity to it than the government inside job hypothesis.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PZe3AgOLGCQ

This video explains a very important issue. It shows Bill O'reilly beating some guy into the dirt, asking why the guy doesnt take his "evidence" to a foreign media to get the "truth" out. It also has some South Park for a humorous slant.

Why does no official media outlet approve of the conspiracy theory? Why don't all the nations that hate America, 2/3 of the world, jump on this proof and use it against us? Because its all bullshit and speculation. The only reason it survives is because its entertaining.

I am probably coming in very late to this subject, but.

Conspiracy or not, what has happened after 9/11 is completely wrong. Our government has used 9/11 to go into pointless wars to spread our goals in the middle east.

I don't think they planted bombs or any of that ridiculous shit (because I don't let college dropouts tell me what happened on 9/11, loose change) the worse that could have happened (if you look at history) is they let it happen. They got intelligence that such an event was coming, but they stood down. Because they need the support of the American people to perform what they wanted to perform. This is how we have gotten into almost every war.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jaasum

I am probably coming in very late to this subject, but.

Conspiracy or not, what has happened after 9/11 is completely wrong. Our government has used 9/11 to go into pointless wars to spread our goals in the middle east.

I don't think they planted bombs or any of that ridiculous shit (because I don't let college dropouts tell me what happened on 9/11, loose change) the worse that could have happened (if you look at history) is they let it happen. They got intelligence that such an event was coming, but they stood down. Because they need the support of the American people to perform what they wanted to perform. This is how we have gotten into almost every war.

---

This very recent organization is composed of 149 Architects and Engineers who are far from collage drop-outs. They all have degrees and many of them have PhDs.

Richard Gage has given many lectures to architecture firms and has said that almost everyone after his presentations agrees with his conclusions: that the Twin Towers, and WTC7 were brought down by explosions.

This fact has also been indisputably proven through many scientific methods and research projects by many very distinguished PhD's in physics.

i would post the links, but they are always ignored, and no matter how many brilliant architects, engineers, and scientists produce irrefutable research providing explanation of factual evidence (i.e. tons of molten iron before the collapse) the official conspiracy theorists will simply and pathologically tell themselves that these people are crazy, OR as Universal Mind uses the fallacy, if they were right then most others like them would agree. But this is a logical fallacy, not to mention fully unsubstantiated by any kind of poll that would need to be done.

the nail in the coffin for the govt complicity aspect however, is that the govt has tried its best to cover up mountains of evidence. Such as the firefighter testimonies, hundreds of which detail explosions and many specifically stating controlled demolition as the cause. Why would the govt make the 911 families go to court 3 times before they were forced by the highest court to release them?

OK, thats all fine and dandy memetricverb. Why isnt everybody on Earth besides George Bush and his cronies putting your "evidence" on the news every night?

You've got nothing. You're articles about molten metal dont prove jack. Do you know what they didn't find? A single blasting cap. A single piece of explosive equipment. Do you know how much explosives are necessary for a job like that? Anywhere on all 3 sites where you say explosives were planted, there was NOTHING. The odds of there being explosives are astronomicly small.

Btw, explosives don't make molten metal. They just blow shit apart.