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I have yet to be convinced by an 9/11 conspiracy theory. The evidence just doesn't hold enough weight for me.
That doesn't however mean we should automatically dismiss them.
I do believe, however, that the Bush administration, and many of their associates, had A LOT to gain from 9/11. I am not against the theory that they may have let 9/11 happen but for the government to attack itself would be a rather bizarre hypothesis.
I didn't say all conspiracy theories are funny. Conspiracies do happen. That is why there are laws concerning them. But some conspiracy theories are hilarous. Did you hear the one about how the U.S. government used remote control torpedoes that looked like airplanes to hit the twin towers and hired the family members of dead people to talk about supposed conversations they had with their family members while they were supposedly on the supposed airplanes? The theory even involves thousands of regular people who huddled up to be in on the conspiracy without a single one of them coming forward after all of these years. Now, THAT is funny! :rolllaugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
Although real deaths can be very funny, ever heard of The Darwin Awards?
http://www.darwinawards.com/
"the 911 conspiracy story, is a government conspiracy"
No one has even come close to refuting any of the claims of the mainstream 911 Truth movement, composed of hundreds, if not thousands of PhD educated academics.
Heres a list of professors that have made their quite educated opinions known.
http://patriotsquestion911.com/professors.html#Morrone
They range from CIA analysts to physics and engineering professors. The government apologists have no such lineup and no academics are willing to risk their reputations on something so obviously false as the government's official version.
The physical evidence alone is astounding, ranging from the impossibility of the twin towers, as well as WTC 7, falling at near the speed of gravity (when supposedly thousands of joints and steel beams are providing resitance to a straight-down collapse), to hundreds of severed beams getting thrown hundreds of feet and implanted horizontally into nearby buildings.
In addition to the physical facts that prove demolitions were used to take down the towers, we have the incredibly underhanded way the government dealt with attempts by 911 Families to see exactly what those closest to the attacks, namely the emergency responders, had to say about what they experienced. The govt forced the 911 Families to court several times to release these tapes, and low and behold, dozens of responders had given detailed accounts of controlled demolitions, and dozens more detailed unexplainable multiple, successive explosions.
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2006...ers26jan06.htm
Just a few facts for now, theres literally thousands more if people are open minded enough to accept the truth.
Honestly these 9/11 conspiracy theories hurt the progressive movement in this country to hold Bush accountable for what he's really done. Not just him, but every president before him. There's a really good reason Osama bin Laden attacked us, because he and his followers (and millions of people all over the middle-east) were feeling victimized, not just by their corrupt leaders, but ours. We fought wars over there and saw nothing, its their civillians that had to pay for our transgressions, and we reaped the benefits. Well for one day, 9/11/2001, the shoe was on the other foot. I'm not condoning what happened or saying the victims deserved it, I'm just saying their terrorism was a result of ours, and if we don't stop terrorizing the world these attacks will continue.
Upholding democracy in Israel is not terrorism. Blowing up buses and trying to destroy Israel's democracy is terrorism. Taking over Kuwait for purely selfish gain is terrorism. Refusing to comply with a ceasefire on several terrorism grounds for 12 years is terrorism. We were not out of line with our Middle East policies. And the 9/11 attacks were decided on by the terrorists. They are responsible for their senseless decision that only gave us reason to expand our fighting in the Middle East. The 9/11 attacks were pointless, counterproductive, and atrocious. I don't accept the argument that the psychopaths had no choice. If they want us to see their point of view better, they are going about it the opposite way from what would actually work. You don't win people over by making them your enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomedOne
I think it could be a conspiracy with all the evidence, but we need more people to know. I bet 95% of the U.S. people have no idea or even acknowledge the fact that it COULD have been a setup
Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidMike14
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnP0snh_1cU
Yes, yes, I know not all americans are like that, but I just had to link this video in response to his 95% statement. Looks like a few don't know where or when it happened :) . But I don't get it, everything on the news and stuff was about terrorists and arabs since those attacks, howcome they still didn't memorise it?
We should all keep an open mind about these theories. I don't realy know how far people would go for money, but it all makes sense if we look at it from that perspective. Explain how was the Bin Laden family able to get out of the country, when all the flights were grounded. With all these little things that don't add up, it seems quite obvious to me that it was a setup.
PS: Lol at this video.
Spend 18 minutes to watch this video and tell me you have no doubt it wasnt a conspiracy! you can't! this video is cold blooded proof. i'm not saying i am 100% sure but this video makes you wonder.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9%2F11+justice
Haha, nice. Good words there, we really do need an open mind. Some people only respond, or only choose to respond to certain types of information. I myself would not go near anything that was not based on scientifically verifiable fact, but once I realized that without a doubt the Twin Towers and WTC7http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-c-6qkbxd0 were demolished with explosives, everything else like the coincidences involving Bin Laden's family became much more interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsay
Heres a staggering list coincidences
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.co...de-to-911.html
Check out this youtube video, the mother of all conspiracy films.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cy01...elated&search=
Dont let the title fool you, it was a very good series. That Bohemian Grove place is very interesting.
that was comedic at best. it almost seems like Europe has an inferiority complex, and will bash the US in any way possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cusp
It is propaganda too. The makers of the video portray US soldiers as evil, and 100% torturers, when really it is just a small group. Plus, the raw EXISTENCE of American troops keeps the world in order. I sometimes wonder how many full scale wars would have broken out 1945-present if it werent for our blanket of protection.
To me, that is what Iraq is about. We are flexing our muscle. We are showing future enemies that you are dead even if you associate with people that fuck with the free world. The world is much more likely to be in order if it has somebody to be afraid of. Thats why i dont care if the US gets bashed for its foreign policy. Nothing makes me happier than the fact that my country has everybody scared. Scared people are much less likely to invade a country. And, in that way, we save lives.
Yes, America has helped alot, but for example Iraq was a terrible mistake. It's only purpose is oil. It's not about flexing muscles, it's doing the opposite. Killing half a million people won't make "them" afraid, but angry. You made a bunch of angry "terrorists". Also, the free world you speak of is just an illusion and propaganda. There is no such thing as a free world, just a shitty one. People who are afraid won't make the world safer, just more fucked up. Eaven if somehow, by some strange coincidence, the war stopped "future enemies", the whole thing looks to me like an empire spreading for its own gain. And people actually think they are saving the world. If being afraid means order and peace, then howcome America isn't the safest place on Earth. Personaly, I'd like it to change now, or just blow up and be forgotten. Humans aren't realy worthy of living on this planet, I mean lol killing saves lifes. Makes perfect sense. As long as people actually believe that and other stupid things there will be lots of "freedom" I'm sure.
Half a million people?! You're way off. The current estimate is about 65,000 Iraqi dead, a little over 1/10th of your number. That is propaganda. You have been lied to. Brainwashed like i am, right? Even your dillusion about oil shows it. The ONLY reason we invaded Iraq? Speculation at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsay
Yes, i know the "free world" thing is just an illusion. Much of the world is not ready for freedom, because they have never seen it. I hate to say it, but trying to bring freedom to these places will cause nothing but problems. I have said it before, invading Iraq was not a necessity.
Killing for freedom makes perfect sense. Remember the Nazis? There are times when it is necessary.
Why isnt America the safest place on earth? Because we have so much freedom. Europe is safer than America because of semi-fascist policies. Saying a racial slur gets you in jail? Nobody is allowed to own a gun (in certain countries)? Europe is safe because saftey is FORCED onto the people. That is not freedom. I also heard much of Europe doesnt have jury based trials.
Just because i shouldnt say the N word to a black person doesnt mean it should be illegal. Just because some people shoot other people doesnt mean guns should be outlawed. America is less safe because we are not forced. The right to not be offended doesnt exist here...yet.
What is up with these "peaceful solutions" diplomacy. They never work. They didnt work with Hitler, North Korea, North Vietman, Saddam once, Somalia, Afghanistan, or Saddam twice. Evil people dont listen to those baby threats from the UN. The "lets wait and see" mentality of the UN is stupid. That same mentality exited when Hitler invaded Poland.
I don't know who is correct, in the end any life is valuble. I also don't know about the reasons, money was definately a priority. I guess "you" didn't go to war for oil, but I bet certain individuals did. Yes it is speculation, but what else can I do, only take in info and process it. If it's correct, that's another issue.
I don't have much to say back, because everything you say is or could be correct for the real world. That's why I don't like it. Ok you are free, but it's the people who aren't fit for freedom. Yes Nazis "had to be killed", but that's the same way they felt for everyone else, like the jew or the gipsies, slavs, whatever. So you could say that in the end everybody felt the same way. In the end I'm not even commenting the american ways, but just releasing my feelings about the world. No place is better than the other. So yeah, I guess some fundamentalist terrorist won't change his mind if America suddenly transforms. We might aswell just continue, I just hope that we'll all just get along.
i know your intentions are good, and i hope everybody can get along. I just dont believe this will ever happen. Power corrupts, and those in power really dont give a crap about making the average citizens life better. They care even less about making another countries citizens better off.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsay
The best thing that could happen is a different breed of American presidents. People that would use our might to seriously make everything better. That alone could not do it. Every major country would have to cooperate with eachother. America would have to calm down, and Europe would have to grow some cahones.
The only people who value peace are those who have experienced it. For a lot of the world this has never happened, and they dont put forth the effort to make peace. We still have a LONG road ahead of us to reach this goal. I think now that globalization is really starting to kick it, we will see some changes.
Its 65,000 Civilian deaths. If your talking about people in general(including 'terrorists') the number is way higher. And half a million is probably correct.
Something to also take into account when looking up the numbers, is looking at casualties vs deaths. US military has had some 3,000 deaths in iraq. The number of US military casualties(people who are injured to the point they can no longer fight) is up around 25,000. Obviously a much larger number.
As for US being more free than any other country. The US tops the world with the largest prison population. Over 2 million people. We have more people in jail than china and almost double as many as russia. Infact 25% of all people in prison are in the US. Half of which are for non-violent crimes.
If we have killed that many terrorists, then that is awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
Yes, that's embarassing. It's because of the stupid ass war on drugs, which is what has a lot to do with the fact that the United States has much higher violence statistics than other countries. I have no idea why our government didn't learn a big lesson from alcohol prohibition. We passed a constitutional amendment repealing alcohol prohibition because the policy was so out of hand. The war on drugs is much more of a disaster than the war on just alcohol was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alric
The US government did it so that they'd have a reason to go to war, that idiot of a president honestly believes it was Osama's doing, and before long the government is going to become a militarian one just like the one in V for Vendetta. And while we're going over conspiracy theories, the British Royal Family are all werewolves.
You speak a lot of truth here, but that the U.S. invaded Iraq without being attacked seems to violate the policy of non-intervention, which has been a key element of American foreign policy for over 200 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming
If the goal of American foreign policy has been changed and is now to make every country safe, kill brutal dictators, etc, then there were many other countries in worse shape than Iraq. Why did America choose Iraq? Oh yeah, the Bush administration lied constantly to get the American people to associate it with Afghanistan and 911...
From those few links I posted previously one can easily put two and two together to see that 911 was a staged event done for no other reason than to flex the military industrial complex, and steal American wealth.
Well we killed like 100,000 just from iraqi troops when we first invaded.
Watch Fahrenheit 9-11, Michael Moore knows more about this stuff than even some members of the administration. The web of lies is so complicated I don't think we'll ever know what is really going on in the administration, they've covered up their illegal deeds pretty well. It's slowly unraveling itself, but they cast doubt.
EDIT: This post was accidental and was written by a terrorist, please ignore.
EDIT EDIT: Don't believe them, they've kidnapped me and have me in Guantanamo Bay, I was able to steal quick internet access to type this. Get rid of the PATRIOT act before they
Michael Moore is a fat ass socialist weasel. Nobody, NOBODY puts more spin on a topic than him. He has no business making movies with so much BS. The only thing Mr. Moore knows is the size of his wallet, which still fails in comparison to the size of his ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by ninja9578
9/11 was staged, huh? It was all so simple. All they had to do was have explosives planted at the base of the towers. Then on 9/11 they acted like planes were being hijacked, when really they just re-routed them to Pennsylvania, then flew two military jets into the towers filled with more explosives before shooting down the witnesses on flight 93 with an F-15 after blowing up the Pentagon with a cruise missile. Then through future prediction phenomena they knew that Osama would confess to the attacks, and that Saddam would not allow UN inspectors into bunkers. It all makes perfect sense.
As to America being a free state compared to our jail population. Well, what do you want? Complete freedom where you are free to kill somebody and not go to jail? The truth is, our higher jail poplulation is an example of our freedom. Our people are not as afraid to commit crimes as Europeans. To me, not being afraid is 10X the freedom of being able to do anything you want.
ok first of all 9/11 was not an inside job..anybody who thinks that needs to learn the facts ..First off, our president is not smart enough to pull something off, second of all, the CONSPIRACY stories always change.. First it was "Oh omg! They put Bombs inside the WTC buildings and detonated them!" (right where the planes hit i might add) Then it was Some kind of chemical that was placed inside the WTC buildings that cut through metal quickly (right where the planes hit again I might add) Then it was missles with wings, then a military plane that hit the WTC...
And besides your going to sit there and tell the world that it was an inside job when you have no proof... Ok think of it this way, if it was really set up as an inside job, dont you think that SOMEONE would come forward and say something..or not even that, besides that, someone down the line and with time would say something to someone about it...
Also if you ever encounter a Conspiracy Theorist, please ask them to do this one thing if they think 9/11 was an inside job..
be like "Hey, I challenge you to give a detail plan and layout of how everything was set up and planned out.. What was used, how and why...."
I promise you they wont beable to give you a detail plan and layout of how it was all layed out..
and not only that if you do your research you will find out that Al-Qaeda (spelling) has already admitted to planning out 9/11
here is a link that took me 2 seconds to find
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,258817,00.html
there you go,
PS: im sick of people saying 9/11 was an inside job or conspiracy, my brother who is an Army Ranger, Special Forces Green Beret is over in Iraq fighting for our country, and trust me, he's not fighting for nothing...
thanks
spiritofthewolf