Thread: False Witchhunt on the Sacred Mushroom

Hi dreaming peoples,

First off: Wether you personally like or dislike mushrooms, or neither, is unimportant. What I mean to show people with this message is how Intolerant the Conservative-political front in Holland is towards people with different values about issues than them. And how they maliciously fill the media with lies and false and incomplete facts to suggest false truths to people who watch the news and read the papers. Just think of how you would feel if hypocritical, dominant politicians suddenly denie you a good beer, your precious Coffee or Tobacco; All of these "substances" are actually ALOT more harmfull and risky than magic mushrooms and even XTC and LSD.
That is no joke. Look up the facts if you have a hard time believing that.
Politically/Economically influenced media appearantly isn't at all an objective, truthfull source of correct information:


Lately the Magic Mushroom has been in the news and made it into a true media hype. The media is flooded with negative news about Mushrooms. However after further investigation by Smartshop owners and after anonymously presented new information it turns out that vall of these mushroom incidents were questionable.Here's a couple of examples.

-The French girl that comitted suice jumping off of a bridge on Mushrooms has not been furtherly investigated. No medical/Psychological reports was published.
-The Frenchman that just recently got arrested in the back of his white van having killed his dog with scizzors and claimed he was under the influence of magic mushrooms turned out to be a bold lie; An anonymous source of the people that investigated the case said that there was no psilocybin or psilocin found in the man's blood after examination. The cause of his maddness and brutal slaughter of his dog turned out to be the produc of a regulair psychosis; THIS of course WASN'T later rectified in the news, but it's good some people are watchfull like smartshop keepers aqnd truely convinced entheogen users.
-The Icelandic guy who jumped from a window and broke his legs and feet, claiming that mushrooms had driven him mad, wasn't medically investigated: A little strange from police and media to just believe what a psychotic man claims. He might have used cocaine, LSD, PCP or XTC which are illegal drugs here and told the police that he did mushrooms to avoid prosecution; Mushrooms are legal here. But no investigation was done and the news was published nevertheless.

If you want to read the 2 articles on this I used as my source:
http://www.azarius.net/news/186/Dutc...gic_mushrooms/
http://www.azarius.net/news/185/Smar...me_to_rethink/

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That's what I wanted to share. My motivation for those interrested:

To be specific: Entheogens are psychoactive drugs that are used in a religious ritual/cultural context to produce visions and mental/prophetic insight such as often seen in South American native tribes and alot of places all around the world. The current Witchhunt is lead by Christian Conservative/Liberal Conservative Dutch politicians who, on all subjects and political questions in Holland, have been increasingly bold, rude, deceptive towards the people and spreading foul lies via the media about many issues such as Immigrants and especially the " Moslim-Question". They've created ALOT of social tention between Dutch Muslims and Dutch people by maliciously spreading lies and false suggestions through the media.. They're on a continuous raid to bust other people's values and submiss them to their own values by dominant, attacking behaviour towards everyone that opposes them.

In the end it is not about Magic Mushrooms at all, but simply about the domination of 1 ideology/moral structure of all others: Alcohol kills 1000s every year here yet this is not a public health problem of their concern: Because they, The rightwinged conservative political front, make loads of money on acohol business and because common, everyday alcohol use makes people quite stupid, non-critical and easy to fill with alot of bullshit to keep them under your thumb. Tobacco use is also very hamrfull and yte it has never been a political issue; No wonder. These politicans have great investments in the Tobacco industry and earn LOTS of money due to Tobacco-taxes. Supposedly to "morally enforce smoking in good interrests of public health". Jadejadeja, Money and power are their soul motivations off course. It's the same story repeating over and over again and I certainly know where I stand in this struggle.

I am quite serious about founding an organisation and eventually a Entheogenic Religion to protect my, and many others', freedom to benefit from the amazing, insightfull and apeacing experiences obtained via entheogens using the Law for protection of Religious Freedom.
It's not I would use religion as an excuse: this is actually just how serious I am about the moral value and preciousness of the Psychedelic experience.

This is not "them" trying to rightiously ban a wicked drug in best interrest for the public, this is simply them saying "These are our rules and if you better not challenge or insult our authority or you shall be punished".

I have been wrestling with the illogic and inconsistency with drug attitudes for a long time. Tobacco is an addictive killer substance (kills 1/3 of its users and hooks practically everybody who tries it), alchohol is a big time addictive killer substance, and psilocybin is not a killer substance or addictive. But guess which one the religious fanatics go after. That is why I think public drug attitudes have a lot to do with religion. Alcohol and tobacco don't have anything to do with "spirituality", but psilocybin mushrooms and marijuana do. They are seen as "false idols", and that is why they are illegal in the United States and hated by religious fanatics in Holland. It's all about whether a drug supposedly makes God jealous, not how deadly it is.

Exactly. That is exactly what it is: a war on other people's value. Don't revear YOUR God. Revear MY God. That's it really.

And they would probably die from disappointment and terror if they found out just HOW far out of God's intent they are acting. God = Nature = The Source of Consciousness = Jah = Gaia...etc. They are burning and banning plants of God. As if they disagree with God.

How silly is this: American, armed officers being busy with what? Busting armed and dangerious criminals? Protecting Civilians from Mafioso? Evacuating Civillians out of harms way when rivers have flooded the land?

No, American Armed officers BURNING a field of plants because they think these plants are "BAD PLANTS". Why don't they tell the mushrooms not to grow?

Originally Posted by SKA

Exactly. That is exactly what it is: a war on other people's value. Don't revear YOUR God. Revear MY God. That's it really.

And they would probably die from disappointment and terror if they found out just HOW far out of God's intent they are acting. God = Nature = The Source of Consciousness = Jah = Gaia...etc. They are burning and banning plants of God. As if they disagree with God.

How silly is this: American, armed officers being busy with what? Busting armed and dangerious criminals? Protecting Civilians from Mafioso? Evacuating Civillians out of harms way when rivers have flooded the land?

No, American Armed officers BURNING a field of plants because they think these plants are "BAD PLANTS". Why don't they tell the mushrooms not to grow?

They could just shoot the plants:p.

This is a very tricky subject. I personally dont believe the American population can handle the legalization of drugs. It would just raise a generation of drug addicts. Now, since i dont believe in god, i am free to say that a plant can be a terrible thing. Look at the coca and poppy plants.

Moderation is the key. I would still be doing blow if i thought i could moderate it. If we could use drugs just to get a break, it would be fine.

I feel like if you are doing drugs, you are creating artificial happiness, instead of creating your own happiness. I think that may be the reason why i grew to hate drugs, especially weed. I know, i'm a turncoat.

FREEDOM!!! You should have the freedom to do these plants, even if they can do damage. Americans have the right to own guns, right? Why not own plants, all of them? Tobacco and alcohol should be illegal either. Those who are going to be stupid with them are going to die. Let them!! The smart people will raise smart kids, but they will also have the freedom to get high.

The biggest problem is the transition period. We cant just make drugs legal overnight.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

The biggest problem is the transition period. We cant just make drugs legal overnight.

Maybe we could trade alcohol for marijuana for a while so people can get adjusted. Congress could pass a bill that says that at 12:00 a.m. on September 1, 2008, alcohol is illegal nationwide but marijuana is completely legal. After society gets used to legal pot, we make alcohol legal again. We could do a similar trade with mushrooms and tobacco. Do you think Republicans would be ready to put down their beer and cigarettes for a few years to make way for pot and mushrooms?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Maybe we could trade alcohol for marijuana for a while so people can get adjusted. Congress could pass a bill that says that at 12:00 a.m. on September 1, 2008, alcohol is illegal nationwide but marijuana is completely legal. After society gets used to legal pot, we make alcohol legal again. We could do a similar trade with mushrooms and tobacco. Do you think Republicans would be ready to put down their beer and cigarettes for a few years to make way for pot and mushrooms?

I dont think the legalization of pot would do much damage. It would sure keep a lot of people out of jail. Waste of tax dollars if you ask me. But you're definately not taking away my Steel Reserve and Camel Mellows

As to your question, definately not. The Republicans are to religiously motivated (or at least they say they are) to "allow drugs to poision our pure children". They keep cigs and booze legal because they have pretty much always been legal (hence, "conservative") But, afterall i couldnt say i would give up beer and cigarettes for shrooms and pot, considering i dont like pot.

At this point in American culture, i see the liberal movement as the main problem, but, there will be a time when conservatives will need a serious change. The problem is that neither party is willing to budge. Hopefully this will be their downfall that leads to a moderate party.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Maybe we could trade alcohol for marijuana for a while so people can get adjusted. Congress could pass a bill that says that at 12:00 a.m. on September 1, 2008, alcohol is illegal nationwide but marijuana is completely legal. After society gets used to legal pot, we make alcohol legal again. We could do a similar trade with mushrooms and tobacco. Do you think Republicans would be ready to put down their beer and cigarettes for a few years to make way for pot and mushrooms?

The tobacco companies and the alcohol companies would not be happy about that, and our politicians would probably be bought by them if some one ever tried to pass a law.

Hey, Nerou, didn't you leave DV a little while ago?

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

They could just shoot the plants:p.

This is a very tricky subject. I personally dont believe the American population can handle the legalization of drugs. It would just raise a generation of drug addicts. Now, since i dont believe in god, i am free to say that a plant can be a terrible thing. Look at the coca and poppy plants.

Moderation is the key. I would still be doing blow if i thought i could moderate it. If we could use drugs just to get a break, it would be fine.

I feel like if you are doing drugs, you are creating artificial happiness, instead of creating your own happiness. I think that may be the reason why i grew to hate drugs, especially weed. I know, i'm a turncoat.

FREEDOM!!! You should have the freedom to do these plants, even if they can do damage. Americans have the right to own guns, right? Why not own plants, all of them? Tobacco and alcohol should be illegal either. Those who are going to be stupid with them are going to die. Let them!! The smart people will raise smart kids, but they will also have the freedom to get high.

The biggest problem is the transition period. We cant just make drugs legal overnight.

Wow! I disagree, agree, disagree and agree with you

I believe in God, but in a very Individual, abstract and openminded manner: I am just as Free to say plants can be pure evil: What about Datura? In my view God is the source of all creation. The Creator. But Good and evil A.K.A. Morals are a human concept and has got nothing to do with God IMHO.

I half agree half disagree with you on the Artificial happyness thing: This lies in the point of Moderation and Self-responsibility you mentioned with which I really agree: Some people seek to escape their problems and try to find happyness and peace in "drugs" They will not find it untill they face their problems and solve them, not run away from them. These people usually don't mind doing heavily toxic and mentally depleating drugs and are very careless and wreckless with their own physical and mental health.
Other people on the otherhand, like myself, do "drugs" as a means of Mental/Spiritual exploration and enlightenment. And they DO find Enlightenment in it. And what a pleasure it is ; a Sincere, Integre and pleasure. They only do drugs in moderation and drugs which are responsible to take in being non- or not significantly-toxic, and stay away from harmfully toxic, mentally depleating drugs.

WEED actually is one of those responsible, nonharmfull, mentally enriching drugs. However it has a great potential for abuse by people who do not wish to face and deal with their problems.
Alcohol is the most toxic, mentally depleating and addictive of them all and yet it is so socially accepted and widely available that this harddrug has the greatest potential for abuse.

Responsibility and awareness are the Key: Someone who is Conscious of his/her actions, their consequences and beares the full responsibility of them would never use "Bad drugs" or even "good drugs" in an ashaming, abusive manner: Escapism


I can't stress enough that there's Drugs and there's "Drugs"
And no You shouldn't ban any of them, unless they are as serious as Heroin, cuz it would lead to a huge rise of drug related criminality, people ingesting fraudulent drugs mixed with very dangerious additives, people picking poisonous wild mushrooms that are magic mushroom-look a likes and people being uninformed of the facts leading to overdoses and dehydration.

Instead acceptable, responsible drugs should be legalised, but then the public should be properly informed of the facts and thoroughly made conscious of the Risks of Irresponsible drugs and Irresponsible use of responsible drugs.

That and STRICT regulations on the sale of these drugs. Smartshops should not allow anyone under certain ages to buy their products, they should provide ALOT of information on their products for curious people who are new or otherwise uneducated on the drugs sold there.

Maybe this would be an awesomely good plan:
If people are interrested in doing Drugs, they should first follow a series of Educational classes that extensively explain the effects, risks, abuse potential, physical effect..etc of each and every individual drug. Once they finish this Education they have to pass an exam that sais a whole lot about a person's responsibility and knowledge of the educated facts. Once they pass they receive a card with their ID stored in a magnetic strip. These cards can be used to allow access into smartshops. This way you make sure that people don't do drugs, even acceptable drugs, when they are clearly not responsible or educated enough. Such a card should be the only access into a smartshop.

How about that people

I had one experience with mushrooms at a low dose many years ago when I was in college. It was a positive, pleasant experience that I felt was overall beneficial to me as an individual. What a shame that I can't do this legally here in the States.

Hey SKA. Yeah, every time I read something about some idiot foreigner on magic mushrooms I am like "ahh, some bigot is going to make a big deal out of this".

They have NO ground to stand on. Alcohol causes a THOUSAND time more cases stupid behavior then mushrooms (idiots beating each other up drunk). Tobacco kills thousands more.

I am thinking about writing a letter to "metro" or "Spits" (free papers in the Netherlands they give out on train stations and such). I however hope we have enough un-biased people in the government that actually want factual evidence before they ban something : /

Gawd, I hate the CDA and the CU.. And the VVD of course... and the PvdA lately... (Hating the SGP is like, without a doubt).

*political parties in the Netherlands*

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And UV is right, Christian-fascists don't want people to think differently. Tobacco and alcohol don't take people out of their little bubble of close-mindedness, marijuana and psychedelics do. That, and you can make far more money off tobacco and alcohol.. : /

I can't believe that people can't see how illogical it is that tobacco and alcohol are legal but marijuana and other things aren't. And if someone dies of a 'drug': OH NOE! If someone dies of alcohol (totally not a drug of course, becauseee... people decided not to call it a drug :/), then it's just their fault or something, not the substance's. It never is the substance's fault.

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Also, there is a passage in the bible that goes like "All herbs and plants are put upon this earth for all of mankind" or something like that... Christians can't be for banning mushrooms and marijuana, or they would be greatly hypocritical.. oh, they are : / =)

http://www.cannabis.net/weblife.html

This is an interesting experiment using spiders that have been given certain substances and allowed to build a web under the influence. It doesn't use mushrooms, but I thought it was pertinent because of your comment on how some legal substances are more harmful than the illegal ones. Take a look at the caffeine web for a good example of that.

Fascinating link about the spiders, Xaqaria. I'd be interested to see just how varied "sober" spiders' webs can be, which would further illustrate the influence these substances have on them.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

http://www.cannabis.net/weblife.html

This is an interesting experiment using spiders that have been given certain substances and allowed to build a web under the influence. It doesn't use mushrooms, but I thought it was pertinent because of your comment on how some legal substances are more harmful than the illegal ones. Take a look at the caffeine web for a good example of that.

Awesome info. You can also see a video about the same thing here:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHzdsFiBbFc

About the main discussion here; I do find it strange. In Britain, there's a huge problem with massive numbers of binge drinkers forming mobs and whatnot. And somebody was shot just today over cigarettes. Yet I never hear of a single incident involving other drugs. It does seem to me that there is a strange bias.

What I do not understand is why people have this bias and why it came to be. Could anybody explain?

Oh. I suppose it's just that you're all raving then. :0

They keep cigs and booze legal because they have pretty much always been legal (hence, "conservative")

So has weed, psychedelics, coke, smack etc...until approximately this century.

Potheads don't have jobs? I don't know one who doesn't have a job, and they all pay their taxes. Loss of ambition? The only one I know who is lazy was just as lazy before he ever took his first toke. I know plenty of sober peeps who are the laziest slackers on the face of the earth. You sure you guys weren't talking about smackheads?

Marijuana got put down relatively fast. Things like LSD and shrooms didnt even get popular until the 70's. Tobacco and alcohol have been around for thousands of years (atleast for alcohol). For cigarettes, nobody knew they were bad for you until the 40's. Thats the difference between cigs/booze and psycadellics.

Originally Posted by Lamneth-25

Potheads don't have jobs? I don't know one who doesn't have a job, and they all pay their taxes. Loss of ambition? The only one I know who is lazy was just as lazy before he ever took his first toke.

Stick around.

Smoking pot doesn't make you lazy. At least, it doesn't make most people lazy, I am sure that some people do become lazy for it. I think lazy in general just use more pot.

The 'omg pot ruins teh society'-argument is just silly.

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By the way, Just redicoulous: This weekend, I saw om some internet news site something like

"German man found unconscious in hotel room in Amsterdam. The man smoked Weed, Hash, drank alcohol, took magic mushrooms and shot herion. The man had to be taken to the hospital."

Okay, fine tourists do fucked up stuff in Amsterdam.

But then the report goes on "there have been more incidents with Magic Mushrooms the past few months..blabla".

What the fuck? What does this still have to do with Magic Mushrooms? Just taking Heroin is stupid and can get you in a Hospital, and even just drinking and doing weed can fuck you up. Still, they act like this has anything to do with Magic Mushrooms. Just bad, biased reporting, if you ask me.

Smoking pot doesn't make you lazy when you've got ADHD like me It's just impossible to extinguish my overabundance of energy I contain more energy than a Nuclear powerplant, so all smoking Marijuana does for me is calm down my often overly chaotic mind to a normal, reasonable pace in which I can much more easily concentrate on external tasks and internal singulair thoughts.

Actually the Benzodiazepines(Klonopin;A.K.A. Clonazepam) I get prescribed by the Psychiatrist for my ADD-head make me lazy and emotionless. And they say:"No people don't smoke weed! It's bad for ya!. Instead take Rubbish Opiates which are mentally numbing, physically addictive and very harmfull!"

I mean it's crazy man. And yet again all about money. The people that regulate and decide these matters don't know the meaning of the word "morals". All they know and care for is Money. Preferably over my back.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

They are seen as "false idols", and that is why they are illegal in the United States and hated by religious fanatics in Holland. It's all about whether a drug supposedly makes God jealous, not how deadly it is.

Universal, please. lol.

The reason they are illegal has nothing to do with god. It has to do with how threatening something is to control freaks. For example. Tobacco kills and does not really have that much benefit at all. And it's addictive. So they can exploit that for profit and it's no threat. It benefits the medical industry when people get sick from it.

However if they made hemp legal. Big industry would go under in many areas as it's useful for a lot of things. Including clothes. It can also be a healing drug. Which threatens the medical industry.

It has nothing to do with making god jealous lol. Your logic is so warped. If it involved god it's only because those controlling others want to use god as an excuse. But it's definitely not a religious issue. Drugs are good or bad depending on how they are used. Again it's clear we have some control going on as good drugs are portrayed as bad, while bad drugs are openly used and legal, and in some cases promoted when they can get away with it.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Universal, please. lol.

The reason they are illegal has nothing to do with god. It has to do with how threatening something is to control freaks. For example. Tobacco kills and does not really have that much benefit at all. And it's addictive. So they can exploit that for profit and it's no threat. It benefits the medical industry when people get sick from it.

However if they made hemp legal. Big industry would go under in many areas as it's useful for a lot of things. Including clothes. It can also be a healing drug. Which threatens the medical industry.

It has nothing to do with making god jealous lol. Your logic is so warped. If it involved god it's only because those controlling others want to use god as an excuse. But it's definitely not a religious issue. Drugs are good or bad depending on how they are used. Again it's clear we have some control going on as good drugs are portrayed as bad, while bad drugs are openly used and legal, and in some cases promoted when they can get away with it.

I live in the American Bible Belt. I can tell you for sure that fanatical Christians think drugs other than alchohol and tobacco have some Satanic voodoo superstition element to them. They have hysterical reactions to even the mentioning of them. I agree that business corruption has a lot to do with the war on drugs. But that does not mean there is not a religious element involved. Why would one factor exclude the other?

Why would you say psychedelic drugs in particular are almost all illegal? Who in the Hell is threatened by mushrooms and mescaline, other than people who think they are false idols? Some of us have a saying around here. Psychedelic drugs will never be legal here as long as there is a church on every corner.

I stand corrected here. Religion is a major part of control. But those higher up the religious chain who are moderating it are not really religious just using religion for control. If anything they are anti-religion. Which then gives religion a bad name from it's exploitation. The reason why these kind of drugs are threatening because if people used them properly widespread. They would start to discover aspects of reality that these people want to keep covered up so they remain ignorant and don't question their modes of control.

Religion has a lot to do with it but that's not the only reason they are illegal. They are illegal because most people don't know anything about them, people are brainwashed from other anti-drug people since the say they are born, people know someone addicted to hard drugs and therefore hate all drugs besides alcohol, morons think you're gonna die if you do psychedelics, or they think you're gonna fuck up your brain or your chromosomes or something, and some people thinkg you're gonna jump out of a window thinking you can fly if you're on psychedelics (if you're having a lvl 5 trip, this could be true). The list goes on... the false list that people made up to make them illegal to begin with.

ya I didn't use any grammer or anything, just wanted to make the stupid list kids learn about in D.A.R.E.

ps: I wrote the best essay when I was in D.A.R.E. and got to read it on national T.V HAHAHAHAHAHA, fooled that pig.

Mushrooms were only made illegal here last year and it's a damn shame. Governments fear the use of hallucinogens because they open your mind, allow you to explore altered states of consciousness and really tear down the concepts of capitalism and consumerism that governments so rely on to keep people as brainless, thoughtless, souless slaves. Alcohol kills brain cells...FACT. It is a tool to keep people stupid and stop them from asking too many questions.

I do think that hallucinogens have strong effects but the problems are caused when people have no respect for these drugs and do not realise they have extensive effects on your psyche...I think once you start to struggle against the walls that enthogens are breaking down in your mind you can enter an irreversible mind set leading up to the dreaded 'bad trip'...

I heard bout this idea they were trying to bring in in Holland...where tourists who want to buy shrooms have to go to a smart shop 3 days in advance, they are given non biased information..the pros/cons. They are given something stamped with the date and 3 days later they can go back in a buy mushrooms. This would defo stop spur of the moment consumption (when people may be drunk) and hopefully make people realise it is not something to be taken lightly. Has anyone heard bout this/think it would work?