Thread: Al-Qaeda doesn't actually exist, it's just fear-mongering on the part of the American goverment

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I clearly said MY laundry list of points which is talking about valid points posed at you which have yet to be refuted...read it again. It is you who are mistaken. Freudian slip my arse

Chickening out? Well, I understand.

What in the hell are you talking about? Isn't it like 5AM or something where you are... I think you need some sleep. It seems you're misreading stuff left and right.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

What in the hell are you talking about? Isn't it like 5AM or something where you are... I think you need some sleep. It seems you're misreading stuff left and right.

I'm hanging out with Jim Morrison and Amadeus Mozart. We're helping Bush (Elvis) come up with stories about the fictitious Al Qaeda. We're thinking about changing their name to "The Donald Duck Club".

In other words, attempting to hang on some meaningless wording like a turd hanging from your ass that just won't let go, and searching for lame excuses to argue and look justified when in actuality you still haven't proven a damn thing?

Sounds good to me.

your all so fuckin stubborn, anybody want to give me proof that al-Qaeda exists, or proof that it doesnt.
Stop being so easily lead, those of you who bleieve everything the government tells you are gullable, but your just as bad if you go on the internet and read some ridiculous article based on the fact that Bush blew up the twin towers with his pinky and take it seriously.
Think for your fuckin selfs.

Why stop there? How about some proof that you or anything outside of you even exist? Save that existential noise for the philosophy thread, son.

Imagine these pointless and fruitless debates as dog fights where you sick one thought on another and see which one wins knowing all the while that the thoughts are equally meaningless in value, and all eventually tire out and lose to something.

Was that pompous pretentious comment good for you, too? I win. woof woof.

This is entirely different
Nobody here has any first hand expereince wit Al-Qaeda or has ever seen any legitimate proof of there existence.
If you dont think they exist youve got your information of some crappy site, if you tihnk they exist youve got it straight off the government, and niethe set of people is providing hard proof. How do you suddenly decide that one is lying and the other is telling the truth?

I'm sure no one has any experience, or first hand proof on the subject, either way. That's OK, though. It's still fun to speculate and pretend to argue about something as fake authorities on the subject just the same. I've said this before but, I hope people don't actually think this topic, or any topic, amounts to anything in real terms? I've always thought it would be obvious that, if anyone is sitting here on a Dream Views forum arguing politics, among other things, they would have to admittedly know next to nothing about anything. Not even enough to call themselves authorties over the steaming pile of sh:t that was pushed out onto their lawn by the neighbor's dog earlier that morning...

Don't forget that also always includes myself

I just think it's funny how people remain so adamantly close-minded about certain subjects and don't even allow themselves to give something the proper time of day due to certain prides or prejudices they already carry on the subject. I don't prescribe to any one belief in this particular matter or any matter, I just find it questionable, which is why I initially decided to post on it. Until someone shows me some solid evidence to the contrary, I will remain doubtful. That is all...

Admittedly though, if you haven't noticed by now, I don't really care, either way...tis all a game, my friend.

Just a tidbit on the "nuclear threat"

Originally Posted by arby

Just a tidbit on the "nuclear threat"

I don't think comparing Israel and the United States to Iran, Hamas, and al Qaeda is valid.

Nuclear terrorism is definately a threat. It just depends on when, and where, it is going to happen.

of course its valid
Israel breaks more UN resolutions every year than every other country
the UN itslef said "Zionism is Racism"
Israelis have a well earned reputation of disregarding international law and protocol.
Mossad's disgraceful anitcs are a fine example.
What about the assasination of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, and many many more. He may have been a terrorist or a freedom fighter, but gunning down a disabled man and other innocent civvilans in a street is wrong, but nobody does fuck all because it was israel.
why not just discount them from international law,

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I don't think comparing Israel and the United States to Iran, Hamas, and al Qaeda is valid.

Nuclear terrorism is definately a threat. It just depends on when, and where, it is going to happen.

Just as much could be said of a potential asteriod strike. The question then becomes, should we base our entire decision making around 'threats' that may or may not be based in reality without any sort of solid evidence backing it? Sounds entirely too paranoid to me.

I say, No. Show me some incontrovertible evidence first...These are people's freedoms and lives we are toying with here..Definitely neither of which are something to be taken away on a hunch...

There is no guarantee for tomorrow which that way of thinking is ultimately trying to provide. Live for the here and now, not tomorrow.

Originally Posted by imran_p

of course its valid
Israel breaks more UN resolutions every year than every other country
the UN itslef said "Zionism is Racism"
Israelis have a well earned reputation of disregarding international law and protocol.
Mossad's disgraceful anitcs are a fine example.
What about the assasination of Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, and many many more. He may have been a terrorist or a freedom fighter, but gunning down a disabled man and other innocent civvilans in a street is wrong, but nobody does fuck all because it was israel.
why not just discount them from international law,

I was refereing to the fact that Islamic terrorists don't care if they die, and would gladly push the button on the bomb themselves. They don't care if they, or their countrymen die. It is a different kind of soldier.


Btw, I never said I like Israel, but their tactics are a response to the terrorism they have experienced.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Just as much could be said of a potential asteriod strike. The question then becomes, should we base our entire decision making around 'threats' that may or may not be based in reality without any sort of solid evidence backing it? Sounds entirely too paranoid to me.

I say, No. Show me some incontrovertible evidence first...These are people's freedoms and lives we are toying with here..Definitely neither of which are something to be taken away on a hunch...

There is no guarantee for tomorrow which that way of thinking is ultimately trying to provide. Live for the here and now, not tomorrow.

We don't know if an asteroid is heading toward us. We know for a fact that these people are tripping over their shoelaces to get a nuclear bomb. I have a feeling that our CIA knows much more about their efforts than you do. I personally feel that terrorists have aquired some kind of WMD in the past, but some government stopped it and covered it up to prevent mass hysteria.

The "live for here and know" comment is what let Hitler rise to power. I suppose by that logic I should drop my life insurance.

It really doesn't matter if Al-Qaeda is real or not. Either way the threat is obviously overblown. We can prove that easily. I think it might have been Universal(I can't remeber for sure) who posted a link to the governments own list of terrorists attacks for the past 30-40 years. And for the past 30 years the government admited there has only been 2 terrorist attack(there was however ciminal attacks) on US soil. Two attacks in 30+ years? That is not in anyway a threat.

Lets take it a step further though. There was however a few attacks on US citizens who were off in another countries(almost all kidnappings). The thing is, none of them where from Al qaeda either. They were almost all centeral and south american terrorists most of who where from colombia. So using the governments own data Al qaeda have only attack us twice ever. On 9/11 and one pervious bombing. Two attacks over the course of 30 years don't make a legitimate threat, especially when there are other people who attack us far more often(yet still never in our own country).

We should compare that to countries who have real attacks against them. Places like Iraq where cars bombs go off on the street everyday. Or places like isreal or lebanon where things also blow up everyday. Which to be fair while US citizens are not in any danger us military personal stationed around the world get attack often, mostly because they are sitting in places like iraq. But thats not really terrorism, thats guerrilla warfare. And you can't say a tank getting blown up in iraq is a legitment reason to fear a car blowing up next to your house.

The only real threat to us is if your an american citizen and you decide that you want to travel to the middle east or to centeral america. Or if your a memeber of the armed forces and your stationed in the centeral america or the middle east.

We know that eventually a big asteroid will hit us it's just a matter of when. Could be tomorrow, or a thousand years from now, we don't actually know when, but we know it will. All signs point to it being what took out the dinosaurs, too. Is that any reason to change how we live now?

Just as much could be said right now about any terrorist 'threat'. You have far too much faith in your goverment's ability to act in a selfless manner when history has NEVER told such a story. The thing is, all goverments always eventually trip over themselves without some sort of checks and balances system, because they are all run by power-hungry and corruptible people. The unfortunate fact of the matter is, most americans are now willing to give up many of those checks and balances to allow these all-seeing all-knowing people to better expedite the capture of these unknown 'threats' because we can't possibly understand the state of things well enough to continue to allow them to go through the proper channels as they had done in the past. The 'threat' is just too great a risk!

Also, insurance companies are one of the biggest scams known to exist...Right up there with goverments, and religions. All bidding for money, power, and influence...not your well being.

Since you already seem to blindly trust one of them, why not go all in... 3/3?

Originally Posted by SolSkye

We know that eventually a big asteroid will hit us it's just a matter of when. Could be tomorrow, or a thousand years from now, we don't actually know when, but we know it will. All signs point to it being what took out the dinosaurs. Is that any reason to change how we live now?

Just as much could be said right now about any terrorist 'threat'. You have far too much faith in your goverment's ability to act in a selfless manner when history has NEVER told such a story. The thing is, all goverments always eventually trip over themselves without some sort of checks and balances system, because they are all run by power-hungry and corruptible people. The unfortunate fact of the matter is, most americans are now willing to give up many of those checks and balances to allow these all-seeing all-knowing people to better expedite the capture of these unknown 'threats' because we can't possibly understand the state of things well enough to continue to allow them to go through the proper channels as they had done in the past. The 'threat' is just too great a risk!

Also, insurance companies are one of the biggest scams known to exist...Right up there with goverments, and religions. All bidding for money, power, and influence...not your well being.

Since you already seem to blindly trust one of them, why not go all in... 3/3?

There is a government program dedicated to finding ways to destroy an asteroid. So yea, we are preparing, just like the CIA and NSA are preventing nukes from reaching the middle east.

What is all this about "overblown threats" and such. I am not afraid that al Qadea is going to hurt me, atleast not here in America, and I live in one of the biggest targets in the world. The worldwide threat is huge.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I was refereing to the fact that Islamic terrorists don't care if they die, and would gladly push the button on the bomb themselves. They don't care if they, or their countrymen die. It is a different kind of soldier.
Btw, I never said I like Israel, but their tactics are a response to the terrorism they have experienced.

Apologies, i must have misread your post and jumped to conclusions.

Imran

Originally Posted by Alric

I think it might have been Universal(I can't remeber for sure) who posted a link to the governments own list of terrorists attacks for the past 30-40 years. And for the past 30 years the government admited there has only been 2 terrorist attack(there was however ciminal attacks) on US soil.

That is because our government has been taking the threat very seriously and acting accordingly. If everybody in the government thought like you, there wouldn't be any Americans left.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

We know that eventually a big asteroid will hit us it's just a matter of when. Could be tomorrow, or a thousand years from now, we don't actually know when, but we know it will. All signs point to it being what took out the dinosaurs, too. Is that any reason to change how we live now?

We could completely take down our asteroid defense mode and most likely not be hit by a big asteroid for a very long time. But if we took down our terrorism defense mode, we would be attacked by our enemies immediately. Asteroids are not orbiting the sun and consciously looking for a good opportunity to attack. Terrorists have dedicated their lives to looking for such an opportunity. When we drop our defenses, they ALL have their opportunity.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Just as much could be said right now about any terrorist 'threat'. You have far too much faith in your goverment's ability to act in a selfless manner when history has NEVER told such a story.

No, they don't do it out of selflessness. They do it out of a quest for maintenance of positions and job ladder climbing.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Since you already seem to blindly trust one of them, why not go all in... 3/3?

You are obviously not reading my posts. I keep explaining that that is not my position and that you are leaping to a conclusion about why many people believe what they believe, and all you do is ignore what I say and then repeat yourself. That is why I question whether I am talking to a robot.

I want to know what people like Solskye and Alric think will happen if we just left the middle east. Will rivers of chocolate flow and gumdrop smiles return to the children?

No. Terrorists will say "We defeated the superpower!!! Now all we have to do is blow up cars and kill civilians and everbody will let us do what we want!!!". It is exactly what they are trying to do. Iraq is currently a dangerous game of chicken for influence.

Solskye, what do you call all the aid we send to the world? It may not be selfless behavior, but it is definately a story of something other than agression.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That is because our government has been taking the threat very seriously and acting accordingly. If everybody in the government thought like you, there wouldn't be any Americans left.

Oh give me a break. There was always terrorists before 9/11 and we weren't attack then. Now after it suddenly it has grown into such a threat that it would wipe out our entire country? Seeing as there has been almost no arrests the facts seem to point that there really is no threat.

I am sure they would probably continue to attack each other in their own countries, but eventually they will work out their problems some way or another. What causes the problems is not the fact that we want to help them but the fact that we always think we know whats best for them. We don't know what is better for them, only they can decide that and we have to allow them to decide that on their own.

Their country is free now or so you claim. Allow them to decide.

Originally Posted by Alric

Oh give me a break. There was always terrorists before 9/11 and we weren't attack then. Now after it suddenly it has grown into such a threat that it would wipe out our entire country? Seeing as there has been almost no arrests the facts seem to point that there really is no threat.

First of all, yes, we attacked terrorists very much so before 9/11. We just didn't take over their governments.

If we continue the fight, we will either exhaust their resourses and put them into hiding, make them change their ways, or kill them all. Once Fanatical, murderous, jihad Islam is gone, we WILL leave!!! And the Mid East will be great!!! The reason it is not great, and never has been, is because of their stupid violence.

Fanatical Islam is the source of all problems in the Middle East. If we attack the source, we stop the problem. You're just going to have to put up with it for years to come. If we leave now, not only will the source of problems remain, but they will become empowered by defeating the West.

At this point, it's finishing off the bad seeds, so there won't be any future problems. This is about the future of a land that has always been empovrished. And YES!!! That wil give this country rewards!!! But the Muslims will also see the benefits.

BLAH BLAH BLAH... All I see is hot air being blown...

I've continually asked you to show me proof of the 'threat', to which you continually just blow speculative noise back in my direction. WELL!?!? I'm still waiting...cat got your tongue?!?

I must admit, I skip through your posts because I feel that if I actually took the time to try and absorb your hollow and empty posts they might somehow seep in, and infect me with that vacuous and intolerant babble.

...Apologies in advance for that.

I just fail to see that you somehow magically think you've managed to refute my presented evidence by simply disagreeing with it. Either way, until you show me some proof of your lame-brained opinions actually existing, I'll continue to view your posts as steam being blown from god knows where and why.

SHOW ME PROOF...NOT HOT AIR...

Originally Posted by Alric

Oh give me a break. There was always terrorists before 9/11 and we weren't attack then. Now after it suddenly it has grown into such a threat that it would wipe out our entire country? Seeing as there has been almost no arrests the facts seem to point that there really is no threat.

Almost no arrests? Where in the Hell do you get that? Our homeland security has been very effective and so has our foreign policy. That is why we have been preventing terrorist attacks. You dismiss every near attack and deny that people being arrested are for real, so what would it take to convince you? You dismiss everything just like a fundamentalist Christian dismissing evolution no matter what the evidence. If that is how you think, then there is nothing that will convince you. If Al Qaeda attacked your house with sarin gas, you would say it was Bush.

Originally Posted by Alric

Their country is free now or so you claim. Allow them to decide.

A transition phase with our help is necessary. They are not ready to maintain that freedom without us just yet. They will get there.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I must admit, I skip through your posts because I feel that if I actually took the time to try and absorb your hollow and empty posts they might somehow seep in, and infect me with that vacuous and intolerant babble.

How open-minded of you. In case that's really true and you ever grow the balls to read what I wrote, my arguments are in those posts. I read every word of yours because I like understanding all sides of issues, and I like knowing the specifics of what I am arguing with before I argue and talk trash (which is different from your case because ALL you do is talk trash). But actually, I think you have read my posts and just don't know how to argue with them. Checkmate.