Thread: What's the dealio with GOP candidate Ron Paul?

What do you all think of him? I'm must admit, I'm completely out of touch with America since I've been living in Japan these past few years. I recently stumbled across a few of his videos for the presidential debates and I must say I'm pretty impressed. He seems like a steady contender

He seems to be giving a lot of these Rupert Murdoch mass media machines like FOX news a run for their money. The bias floating around these mass media giants seems frightenly sickening when they were interviewing him. They also conveniently edit out clips, and try and twist and spin his words to make him look horrible when it doesn't seem at all the case. My god, I can't believe how biased this coverage is. Who ever said mass media provides us with only the facts and have nothing to gain? HA!? Take a look and judge for yourself...

Ron Paul Courageously Speaks the Truth

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So what's the deal with this back in the states? Are people actually talking about this?

It seems to me as an outsider that the mass media has their own interests in other candidates like Giuliani and aren't giving proper unbiased coverage of what this man has to say. I must say, a lot of what he is saying should ring pretty true to anyone with half a brain.

Whaddya think?

I had heard the name before and now after watching all these videos I think he would be a good candidate. I will be old even to vote in the next election and I would definately vote for him if he is the candidate. I didn't like when Giuliani made that remark about 9/11 in that debate because what Ron Paul said was essentially correct. Whether or not we like it, the reason the terrorists attack us is because they don't like us because we interfere with their countries. Giuliani came to my schools baccalaureate this past year to speak (my high school is the one where students died in Flight 800) and it ws supposed to not be political (yeah right), and I wasn't too impressed by him. My brother got a picture with him though so that was cool. I like how in the Hannity and Colmes clip how they keep saying its a fluke that Paul was leading, like it was some conspiracy where everyone is voting for him to be funny. I think he has a legit shot and the only reason he wouldn't is because he's not as known as people like Romney, McCain and Giuliani.

If you go on the internet ron paul is by far the most popular person out there. A lot of the mass media kind of just ignores him though. So its hard to judge how well he is doing, since on the internet you will do a poll and ron paul will get like 80%+ of the votes for him but then you watch the news on tv and he won't even be on the poll.

Personally I have never seen him in a bad interview. He really knows his stuff and it shows. His biggest problem is a lot of republicans don't like him since he is a classic conservative instead of a neocon.

That guy is a joke. I watched the debate where Giuliani spanked his ass repeatedly. I'm glad that guy isn't going to win the election.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I'm glad that guy isn't going to win the election.

Who, Giuliani?

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Who, Giuliani?

Dammit, I committed a reference ambiguity. I am glad the joke, Ron Paul, isn't going to win the election. I hope Giuliani does win.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That guy is a joke. I watched the debate where Giuliani spanked his ass repeatedly.

Really? I'd like to see that, if you have a link.

Or are you talking about the recent debate where Giuliani got one applause over Ron Paul's feelings on U.S. foreign policy? (and a subsequent round after asking him to take back what he said) This One?
Can you honestly tell me, UM, that that applause was not based on the rhetoric of sympathy for the sheer atrocity of 9/11, rather than facts that discredit the sentiment of why we were actually attacked, that Ron Paul was expressing?

I have spent the past few hours looking around for the debate where Giuliani "spanked Paul's ass repeatedly." I used google video search, as I didn't want to just limit it to Youtube (although I got mainly youtube hits). Do that on your own. Google "Giuliani" and "Ron Paul." I simply used both names (and only Giuliani's first name, as that what people seem to, most often, refer to him as, without his first name. I even put his name first in the search, before "Ron Paul," getting more hits). Internet-based support seems to me, Without Question, in support of Ron Paul over Giuliani. I'm not saying this to incite some sort of huge argument, as I (obviously) haven't had much time, lately, to participate in some of these passionate debates, like I used to. I am simply trying to understand where you are coming from, on this. I will say, though, that I (so far) support Ron Paul and many of his views, over Rudy Giuliani. I will cite a few vids that I found interesting that illustrate why. (Of course, these could all be dispatched as "propaganda," which is fair enough, but, if that's the case, please post some Pro-Giuliani media sufficient enough to give me reason to reconsider.)
Remember, many of these were the most prominent hits after just cross-referencing their names and clicks on some of the "Related" sections of youtube's search window. Nothing biased was input into the search. (Though I openly admit that some of my subsequent searching, after initial hits, were based on what grabbed my attention. You are welcome to counter-point them.)

(As much of Giuliani's support seems to be based on his position during 9/11, I found this clip really interesting)
Giuliani Gets Exposed as Fraud by Firefighters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaCYEEO-58I

Ron Paul - Truth to Power:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvCLjp4r7wE

Ron Paul vs. Giuliani: Eisenhower Cabinet Support
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yif110zXHME

Ron Paul Discusses Economy with Neil Cavuto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_Qt8...elated&search=

Google News vs. Congressman Ron Paul:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZngO...elated&search=

Heavy Heated Ron Paul Debate on Paula Zahn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDnkpTkNXtM

What did Rudy Giuliani say about the collapse of WTC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu5Nb...elated&search=

Rudy Giuliani's Corruption Town hall meeting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT-ou...elated&search=

(Again, a complete ignorance of the views expressed by the caller, followed by a completely unprofessional series of personal attacks)
Rudy Giuliani mocks Parkinson's victim:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMzPvSpJ1Z8

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Or are you talking about the recent debate where Giuliani got one applause over Ron Paul's feelings on U.S. foreign policy? (and a subsequent round after asking him to take back what he said) This One?
Can you honestly tell me, UM, that that applause was not based on the rhetoric of sympathy for the sheer atrocity of 9/11, rather than facts that discredit the sentiment of why we were actually attacked, that Ron Paul was expressing?

Ron Paul was correct that terrorists hate us becuase of our presence in the middle east, but that does not necessarily mean America is in the wrong. Terrorists are pissed at us because we don't let them get away with anything they want. They want to be able to oppress and kill Jews and the other Muslim groups without anybody getting in their way.

So yes, we were attacked because we stuck our nose in other people's business. I just don't feel that is a bad move on our part.

Who cares anyway? It was a stupid debate on both parts. 9/11 was six years ago. I can't believe people are still bickering about why it happened. Every single politician should be focused on how to fix Iraq, not on how fast they can get troops out. I really think Democrats want to pull out of Iraq for 1 of 2 reasons: 1) It is the exact opposite of what Republicans want; 2) They want Iraq to fail miserabely so they can use it as ammo against Republicans in the future. I don't buy for a second that they really care about our troops.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

Really? I'd like to see that, if you have a link.

Or are you talking about the recent debate where Giuliani got one applause over Ron Paul's feelings on U.S. foreign policy? (and a subsequent round after asking him to take back what he said) This One?
Can you honestly tell me, UM, that that applause was not based on the rhetoric of sympathy for the sheer atrocity of 9/11, rather than facts that discredit the sentiment of why we were actually attacked, that Ron Paul was expressing?

Yes, the video you posted shows part of what I am talking about. Guiliani did a great job of standing up to Paul's misinformation and challenged his point that our presence in the Middle East regarding our 1991 conflict with the Hussein regime was THE reason we were attacked on 9/11. Giuliani went back to the subject again later because he was shut off at the end of that video segment you posted. Ron Paul made a false statement, and it is a dangerous one. Giuliani expressed the absurdity of the point and illustrated the absurd details of it with several statements, and I was impressed with the way he called Paul out on his one dimensional view which puts 100% of the blame on the United States. Paul just basically repeated himself and continued to ignore the other factors. I could not find a video showing the rest of the exchange.

I wish Giuliani had had more time to go into detail and not be so indirect, but with the several statements he made, he said a great deal. I think he is an excellent communicator and a stand up guy with conviction and courage. He illustrated how Ron Paul completely overlooked the fact that Al Qaeda made a DECISION to pull the attacks, that Al Qaeda's demands go way beyond U.S. withdrawal from the Middle East, that the attacks were not a rational means of getting us to leave the Middle East, and that the attacks were not justified. If you ever read Bin Laden's letter to the United States, you saw that Al Qaeda's hate goes way beyond the simplistic explanation Ron Paul gave. Ron Paul's statements were simplistic and false, and Giuliani stood up to them and made light of their absurdity. But I do admit that he could have done much better if he had had more time to debate.

I watched the videos you posted. It looked to me like some people who really hate Giuliani were grasping at straws to say absolutely horrific things about him. I would even classify their behavior as evil. Giuliani said he believed the towers would collapse, but that he did not know they would collapse when they did. The people in the videos tried to make it sound like he said he knew they would collapse when they did, but no proof of that claim was shown. The firefigher video showed a very small minority of firefighters who are probably Democrats and hate Giuliani because they know he is the the best contendor for defeating the Democratic candidate in the next election. I believe their point was very weak. They said Giuliani didn't give them good enough equipment for 9/11. What???? Giuliani was not the person responsible for picking out the equipment. The mayor is not the multitask fairy of the bigggest city in North America. People in lower offices make those decisions. And they did have the equipment. But the equipment could have been better? Okay. The guy who was chased off by security guards or cops or whatever was engaging in flat out hostile harassment. He was really getting on my nerves too, and I wasn't even in the room. He was just a repetitive barking chihuahua full of hostility and accusations and lacking substance, like Solskye. Showing up for a debate or a press hearing and asking hard questions is one thing. Blindsiding somebody and acting hostile and being totally relentless with it is not something people have a moral obligation to put up with for long periods of time. The guy Giuliani stood up to at the town hall meeting was being a total ass and making rotten accusations, and I don't blame Giuliani at all for standing up to him.

Originally Posted by Alric

The idea that a group of people want nothing but to destory another group of people is insane. Real life is not like that! People do not live their day to day life going, "How can I kill people?"

You have a lot of reading to do.

Originally Posted by Alric

How the hell is killing people with tanks any less wrong than blowing them up with a car bomb?

There is a difference between the good side and the evil side. If you don't believe in that difference, then no wonder you say the things you say. Killing people who are out to target the innocent in mass numbers to make some fairy in the sky happy is completely justified. If you don't believe in killing the evil masses to protect the innocent masses, then I am glad you are not in charge.

Originally Posted by SolSkye

Unfortunately, don't expect Universal Mind to step out from within his ignorant bubble to actually make the time to get informed, though. He seems to have the mental sickness of thinking that he can somehow refute points without actually reading up on the facts, or watching them, nor is he even able to provide us with any real counter facts to support his empty ideas...

I want you to inform me of the counterarguments to the arguments you backed down to. Your hot air mantra is not working as a substitute. Besides, you said you don't even read my posts. Remember?

Originally Posted by SolSkye

I must admit, I skip through your posts because I feel that if I actually took the time to try and absorb your hollow and empty posts they might somehow seep in, and infect me with that vacuous and intolerant babble.

That's awesome. Let me know if you ever have anything to argue with. I must admit that I have given up on that expectation.