Thread: Why? Why Exist?

I know this isn't in R/S, but I am putting it here because I don't want religion or spirituality put in. I would like to ask all Theists to please refrain from posting here; This is an Atheist only topic. If a Theist does post, please do not mention God or such, as that will cause what I perceive to be a very stimulating discussion to degenerate into one of the most irritating and pointless (to my mind) "debates", of which the bulk of the R/S forum is filled with. I don't think I need to elaborate on that ...

This is the topic: Why should we continue to exist? What it our purpose? If we don't have one, why not crawl into a corner and die?

From that: Why should we have rules and laws?

Not all Atheists believe we have no purpose. However, assuming they did. Assuming we have no purpose, why not? Whether theres a reason to our existence or not, we still exist. We still have life with emotions and desires for that life. Might as well make the best of it and have some fun right?

That said, we have rules and laws so we can build society, so that we can make the best of this life.

I see no visible purpose. To me it's a man made thing. We make a hammer with a purpose to build houses, etc. Without a human purpose disappears. If I look at the universe now, it does look like it has a purpose to sustain life. But if I take away us there is no purpose. it's all very strange. I can only prove to myself that "I am". That's it. That's not enough to work with. Since I am and I see certain things and live in a certain place, I'll have to make my own purpose. That's to be happy. I think that I wouldn't mind dieing without "pain", although I'm afraid to make that statement. I have no right to speak of such things when I haven't experienced them yet. So yeah, we are build to keep the chain of life going, doing certain things makes us happy, then it's time to die. Mostly I think we all have that thing in common, a universal desire to keep it going.

Bonsay is right, purpose is a very human concept. Animals need no purpose, nor does vegetation, or rocks for that matter. One thing that seems universal however, is that we are programmed to live. Creatures evolve so that they may be best adapted to propagating their species. Every single living organism has an instinct to preserve its own life and to reproduce.

So I guess you could say that the purpose of our existence is simply to exist, rather than nothing at all. We humans, however, blessed with our conscient minds, have the ability to attribute our own purposes to life. So in another way, the meaning of life is what you make of it. There are no wrong answers since purpose is created within the mind of every individual conscient human. I wonder if all that makes any sense ...

Originally Posted by Keeper

Why should we continue to exist?

...why not?

If you can't answer that, then you can't expect everyone to be able to tell you why...

I actually agree with the message Monty Python left us with on their last movie, The Meaning of Life, when they revealed the meaning of life at the end of the film:

It's nothing special, really... Try and be nice to people, avoid eating fat, read a good book every now and then, get some walking in, and try and live together in peace and harmony with people of all creeds and nations.

Let me add another question to the list:

If we didn't have a higher purpose... would it matter? Would it topple your world? I live my life as if that were the case. Luckily, my moral beliefs are such that I don't hurt other people as a result. I ride this ride sitting in the front row, and try not to close my eyes. Then, there's no regret. After all, it may be the last ride.

I love being. I love being a being that can perceive this universe and see colour and feel love and all of the other incredible things that come with being concious in this incredible world. I don't feel the need for a purpose as such. I'm quite happy just to be... I don't understand why you feel compelled to have some kind of mission? And I don't see how belief in God ties into this?

Why exist? Because it is so much more stimulating than not existing.

Plus we are kept alive by a human emotion or feeling. Which is "Fear". Without it we wouldn't fear death or many deadly actions that stop us from doing crazy shit. Animals have this instict programmed very well into them. We humans have learned to understand and tame it. But I think everyone here is afraid to suddenly stop existing. And thats why we keep living, thats maby why your still alive and haven't commited suicide yet. (I'm tot encouraging it either). But life is what we have, I wouldn't want to end it, and definitly not now.

Er, that may be true in some cases, however there are people who genuinely do not fear death. Just because you're not afraid of death doesn't mean you want to die right that second. I'm not afraid of spiders but I don't go looking for them to hold. A good amount of people, though its a small percentage of the grand total, hold the ideal of "I want to live" rather than "I don't want to die," and in that people live their lives the way they want, as full as they want until they do bite the bullet, at which point they're thinking "Hey, time to go"

why? why not? The only sense life makes is the sense you give it. The only meaning life has is the meaning you give it. The only suffering in life is undergoing what you consider suffering. All beauty in this world is only what you consider beauty yourself.

Keeper, you are just asking the very basic question "why is there anything at all?". Believing in a god doesn't change that very basic question.

And it IS indeed a very interesting one. It is the question that amazes me the most again and again. Why is there Anything at all? We can't ever give a logical answer to that. We can't see past the logic of the universe we live in. Laws of logic and physics might be fundamentally different in what comes before existence as we know it.

Existence is a closed system. Even God would be part of a closed system, by the way. We can't reach outside that system. The answer doesn't really matter, however, it would just be 'nice' to know.

I have the will to exist because it is in my blood. I am programmed by nature to want to live and for other humans (innocent ones) to live. All animals have that in their nature. Humans are the only animals that can even conceptualize the idea of God, but all animals want to keep living.

I'd even want to continue living if I wasn't evolutionary designed to. Living rocks. Humans are not hardwired to want to live. People kill themselves and others. The human being is an animal, but it's first and foremost a human. Humans can kill themselves. Humans can live happily without sex. Humans get a kick out of drawing and arranging sounds. Everyone has to find their purpose in life. Asking "Why not?" when the question is "Why?" is missing the whole point of the question. Wanting to live only because there is nothing that speaks against it must be a very shallow form of existence. The human mode of existence is different from the animal mode in that it is oriented towards making sense out of the experience. Seeking meaning and reason in that what happens is our primary concern. That's why we get bored with masturbation and drugs alone. Also, seeing the production of children as the purpose of life is really just taking all the purpose out of life since you are giving the burden of a purpose to the next generation who will then do the same and so on.

Obviously, neither the universe nor any of the natural sciences can tell us anything about our purpose. The truth is, unconsciously we all feel a certain purpose that keeps us going. To lose our purpose is to lose our willingness to live. We have to make this purpose conscious to reach a fulfilling state of existence.

If you believe that life has no purpose, that is fine, but please don't be such a hypocrite and go on living. Go kill yourself right now or you turn out to be a wuss.

Originally Posted by Korittke

If you believe that life has no purpose, that is fine, but please don't be such a hypocrite and go on living. Go kill yourself right now or you turn out to be a wuss.

I don't think life has a purpose, but I still like it and am programmed to hold onto it. Do dogs think life has a purpose? No. Do fish think life has a purpose? No. But we all want to live. Even people who commit suicide want to live. They just have an even stronger compulsion to die because of extreme circumstances, just like a crack addict wants to be sober but has a compulsive illness. We are all primarily programmed to want to live, and the vast majority of us let that primary urge prevail.

Even a fly will move out of the way if you swat at it. What does a fly think its purpose is?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I don't think life has a purpose, but I still like it and am programmed to hold onto it.

You are not. You're not a computer. You can easily prove this to yourself by committing suicide.

Do dogs think life has a purpose? No. Do fish think life has a purpose? No. But we all want to live.

Who says dogs and fish want to live? They have to. Humans choose to live, animals have no options in the first place. No animal can think on the level of a human being, so the analogy is worthless. It's almost like anarchistic primitivists telling me that cats and monkeys have no need for money, science or agriculture and thus it would be perfectly reasonable for humanity to go back to the stone age. Who came up with the notion that animals are perfect role models for humans? I'd slap that person.

Even people who commit suicide want to live.

How does that work...? Obviously it depends on the definition of 'will'. If you truly want to live, you'd have to be pretty fucking stupid if you kill yourself. I use 'will' in the meaning of action-operant wish. If you want to live but as a matter of fact, you kill yourself, your will to live is wishful thinking and nothing more. It's like someone telling me "I want to be a writer", but they're not actually doing anything. They don't really want to be a writer, they just wish that one day they'll wake up with a completed manuscript on their desk.

They just have an even stronger compulsion to die because of extreme circumstances

Which means that, in effect, they do not want to live. Maybe they would want to live if their life wasn't shit. But their life is shit and thus they choose to end it.

If you disagree with this definition, tell me yours. What's the meaning of a hardwired willingness to live if it includes the option of suicide? To me that sounds like "I installed only Windows on this computer, but sometimes it'll boot up Linux just for the heck of it."

Even a fly will move out of the way if you swat at it. What does a fly think its purpose is?

Why do you think it's a good idea to compare a fly to a human? Misanthropy? Next thing will probably be a comparison between humans and viruses and then rocks. Flies don't think, humans do.

Most species don't come remotely close to the freedom of choice of a human being. Some species will easily die of psychosomatic illnesses if you deprave them of their senses though. More complex animals don't even care to live if they're put in a situation they cannot cope with or that doesn't make any sense to them. The same can happen to a human, but he can speed up this process as a result of his intelligence. All it takes is a gun.

Originally Posted by Korittke

If you believe that life has no purpose, that is fine, but please don't be such a hypocrite and go on living. Go kill yourself right now or you turn out to be a wuss.

Are you saying you are unwilling to MAKE your life have purpose if it's not handed to you somehow?

Originally Posted by Replicon

Are you saying you are unwilling to MAKE your life have purpose if it's not handed to you somehow?

No, actually the opposite. I'm just saying that a nihilist is a walking contradiction. I encourage everyone to search for meaning in their lives though.

I should rephrase/correct that to: If you believe that live cannot have/never has a purpose...

From the perspective of chemistry and physics life isn't that different from non-life and pretty meaningless in itself. From the perspective of psychology, life is very important and meaningful. From the perspective of biology, life is much more interesting than from other sciences. From our own perspective, we chose to give life meaning or we chose to consider our lives meaningless. While the latter might be closer to scientific truth, it is impractical from a psychological standpoint and plain wrong from a humanistic one.