Thread: The conscious perception of aniamls

Originally Posted by Burns

Howie, I agree with Moonbeam. All your examples can be applied the same way to people. So by your logic, kids are not capable of emotional attachment either? They are attached to us only because we feed and house them and that is all? Think about what you are saying...


YES, they most certainly do. What about dogs used in police or guard work? Dogs are definitely capable of assessing a situation, predicting the outcome of certain actions, and making decisions on how to act in such a situation. Yes, these animals are specially trained, but this proves that they are definitely capable of this type of thought. If by their species they weren't capable, no amount of training in the world could make them do it.

I'm sad that you haven't had the type of relationship with an animal enough to prove to you that they feel the emotional attachment of love and companionship. But I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they do. You can't do what I do for a living and not KNOW that animals desire companionship or love their owners, and not only because they feed them.

I have put a lot of thought inot this Burnsy.
Actually, it began with the thoughts and thread about of our own beings with relation to altruism.
True philanthropy and unconditional love. *Not to say that those can't exist.

With that said, no, I don't think newborns think beyond what necessitates their survival for a short time.
You acknowledge, but do not give enough credit to "training." Training consists of repetition, which you mistake as preemptive thought processes.

I am sure you have, but have you seen the rigorous training that those animals you speak of go through, repetition, conditioning.
Irrelevant, why? Take them out of that environment, the context to that situation they were trained, then you begin to see and realize how their experience becomes irrelevant.
You can't let a "smart" breed cloud judgment IMHO.

oops, we were typing at the same time.

Originally Posted by Howie

Take them out of that environment, the context to that situation they were trained, then you begin to see and realize how their experience becomes irrelevant.
You can't let a "smart" breed cloud judgment IMHO.

I reiterate what I said above:

There have been stories about dogs acting in such a way in an emergency-type situation that they weren't trained to do, which can mean they truly do understand what is going on in the situation and has the consciousness to act accordingly, without being trained to do so. Pure breed or not, these dogs have proved heroic in a variety of dire situations due to their problem-solving ability and the conscious understanding of what needs to be done.

Originally Posted by Burns

There have been stories about dogs acting in such a way in an emergency-type situation that they weren't trained to do, which can mean they truly do understand what is going on in the situation and has the consciousness to act accordingly, without being trained to do so. Pure breed or not, these dogs have proved heroic in a variety of dire situations due to their problem-solving ability and the conscious understanding of what needs to be done.

We live in a family situation that is difficult to explain. Without going into that, let me share a little story about that dog there in the avatar.

A family member who is not welcome in our home decided to pay a little visit just a few months after we got our dog. Lucky had no knowledge of this person, and up to this time had been a quiet, frightened, skittish rescue case. She was also incredibly affectionate and friendly with everybody she met, and the few exceptions brought out fear in her, usually due to misunderstandings.

This person walked into our back door unannounced, out of the blue. She got about five steps inside when all hell broke loose. Lucky, with her hair standing on end, fangs bared and growling like she was possessed, backed this person right out of our house. We ended up restraining her and then letting this person in.

All the while she was here, (which wasn't long at all,) Lucky was straining to attack. One thing for damn sure - that person will never set foot in this house uninvited again, so long as this dog is here.

I'll also remind you of the story I told last year about Lucky's habit of raiding the pantry and, without EVER eating anything herself, hiding treats under our pillows when she is left here alone.

This dog routinely blows my mind, Howie. She's conscious. She dreams. She often seems to read our minds. And she really seems to understand people - better than we do, quite often.

You can explain it all away, I'm sure... but we know what we experience with this dog day in and day out. She is an amazing creature - an amazing being.