Thread: Ignorance

No. Though I am guilty of getting angry with those who just completely believe the world is what you see. Still doesn't justify the anger though.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

No. Though I am guilty of getting angry with those who just completely believe the world is what you see. Still doesn't justify the anger though.

My thoughts exactly.

It's hard not to be brutal, but hey, the igorance may be gone with gentleness. If you are brutal, likely they'll just ignore you and carry one with being ignorant.

Before we go any further, I think it should be noted that ignorance is - not knowing.
Stupidity
not reasoning
ignoring input - are all more along the lines I think you are seeking, no?

Originally Posted by Jeff777

No. Though I am guilty of getting angry with those who just completely believe the world is what you see. Still doesn't justify the anger though.

I myself am guilty of getting irritated with those who insist on inventing things and believing them without support

Neither of these are ignorance, though. The people you've described are not ignorant, they're just scientific. The people I've described aren't either; they're irrational.

True ignorance is not something to get mad at, but something to help fix. Stupidity is something that people often cannot help, so it's also unwise to get angry at that. The only thing which really angers me is stubbornness, I guess. People who think they've got it all figured out and refuse to even entertain your ideas.

What do you mean by "brutality"? Like, physical stuff? I believe that physically hurting someone is only valid in self defense situations.

As for getting really super pissed at them, hell why not? We're not saints.

Verbal brutality.

And I'm talking about the ignorance of those who refuse to think. There are those who are naturally stupid, and those who refuse to fix it.

Yes, we are all not saints, but if you are brutal to ignorancy, then the person will get stubborn. They probably will end up ignoring you anyway.

Why not try to be gentle and explain it? Who knows you might enlighten them.

Brutality should not be handled with ignorance if you are trying to make a point more than "Guess what I'm right! You're wrong. End of story." If you are trying to accomplish something by enlightening them, then be gentle and explain. Of course this is hard, and we are not all saints and teachers, but eh, give it a try. You might learn a good lesson, and teach someone one.

Originally Posted by Xox

Yes, we are all not saints, but if you are brutal to ignorancy, then the person will get stubborn. They probably will end up ignoring you anyway.

Why not try to be gentle and explain it? Who knows you might enlighten them.

Brutality should not be handled with ignorance if you are trying to make a point more than "Guess what I'm right! You're wrong. End of story." If you are trying to accomplish something by enlightening them, then be gentle and explain. Of course this is hard, and we are not all saints and teachers, but eh, give it a try. You might learn a good lesson, and teach someone one.

Thanks for addressing me as if I go around yelling at people. The only person I have ever yelled at in my life is my mom. Well, and an ex.

At the end of the day, it's really easy for us to say what is the right thing to do, but it's different when you are put in a very tense situation. I don't recall ever having a really heated debate with someone who was just plain dumb, so I don't even have experience dealing with ignorant people on a substantial level.

Originally Posted by Mes Tarrant

Thanks for addressing me as if I go around yelling at people. The only person I have ever yelled at in my life is my mom. Well, and an ex.

At the end of the day, it's really easy for us to say what is the right thing to do, but it's different when you are put in a very tense situation. I don't recall ever having a really heated debate with someone who was just plain dumb, so I don't even have experience dealing with ignorant people on a substantial level.

Ah sorry Mes I didnt mean to put it that way. I was addressing it to everyone.

I'm just trying to tell people to try. I know exactly how hard it is to apply this to tense situations. I've had heated debates with a lot of close-minded people. It's frustrating as hell, but I've learned to not lash out. It's hard not to, but I've also seen positive results.

My point is exactly what Jeff and Gnome made.

In the words of Gnome -

True ignorance is not something to get mad at, but something to help fix.

Originally Posted by ExoByte

Should ignorance be responded to with brutality?

Yes.

Plato said ignorance is the root of human evil.

I don't agree entirely; but he was certainly onto something.


I say yes.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

Yes.

Plato said ignorance is the root of human evil.

I don't agree entirely; but he was certainly onto something.


I say yes.

In that case...

YOU'D BETTER LEARN HOW TO DIAGNOSE ESOTERIC MEDICAL CONDITIONS AND READ HEIROGLYPHS, YOU IGNORANT MOTHERF**KER!

Ignorance is not a trait, it is a level of knowledge. As no human will ever know all that there is to know, everyone is more or less equally ignorant in cosmic terms. At most, you might know a little bit more about some corners of this planet than those you call 'ignorant', but that's just a drop in the sea.

And to the tadpole; the drop in the sea is a tsunami.


These small differences in the scheme of things are massive in our society.

Ignorance isn't to ignore something.

All I can say is this word gets thrown around too much.

What a great I am contributer to the conversation.

Originally Posted by Carôusoul

And to the tadpole; the drop in the sea is a tsunami.


These small differences in the scheme of things are massive in our society.

Well, to a doctor you're quite ignorant then. I think you're just using the wrong word, that's all. Ignorance isn't something you can be mad at, as it's usually not really their fault.

Originally Posted by Grod

What a great I am contributer to the conversation.

You're quite ignorant of the rules of grammar, I should say

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Well, to a doctor you're quite ignorant then. I think you're just using the wrong word, that's all. Ignorance isn't something you can be mad at, as it's usually not really their fault.



You're quite ignorant of the rules of grammar, I should say

Hahahaha!

Irony.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

I myself am guilty of getting irritated with those who insist on inventing things and believing them without support

Neither of these are ignorance, though. The people you've described are not ignorant, they're just scientific. The people I've described aren't either; they're irrational.

True ignorance is not something to get mad at, but something to help fix. Stupidity is something that people often cannot help, so it's also unwise to get angry at that. The only thing which really angers me is stubbornness, I guess. People who think they've got it all figured out and refuse to even entertain your ideas.

Well said.

When considering the nature of the psychology of conflict, we often become very upset and hostile towards those that will not accept our point of view, even when it is correct or encourages critical thinking.

Why, then, does it upset us so to become verbally hostile? This is the result of the urge to control and maintain the conflict or the person. Usually the consequence of being belittled by parents or authority figures during childhood, the individual will desperately try any measure to assert their point of view onto the other. This anger and hostility results from being given the freedom to express their point of view ("What do you think?") but having regimented responses ("You're wrong" or "This is my opinion, leave me alone.").

We feel the need to overcome these authority figures (typically parents) in order to emerge as an individual. During this process of literally battling these figures, the conflictive individual can lose sight of the residual individual growth that occurs as a result of the focus on debating and intellectual discourse.

If the individual relies entirely on the form of debate and control over their relay of propositions to the authority figure, the individuals sense of freedom can become compromised as their unconscious becomes circumscribed, or fixated, on conquering the authority figure.

Freud would assert that this hostile reaction is resulting from a problematic manifestation of the ability to deter aggressive tension because they were not taught assertively from the father. Psychoanalysis would suggest that the individual would have had a fixation on the opposite gendered parent that consistently challenged and instigated debate. Whereas the same-gendered parent passively viewed and, at most, chimed in with mundane assertions. These typical assertions will find the most irritating responses to the conflictive individual who is battling the authority figures.

Thusly, I worry that these tendencies are truly the manifestations of unconscious, or choices that have yet to become existentially manifest, to allow the authority figure to dominate the individuals freedom. When the inclination to become hostile towards another in a debate arises, remind oneself that you have an opinion and that discussion with others is with the intent to grow as an individual; you need not worry about the others growth. Although they may be family, they have found their own way to where they are. And, in truth, your passive dismissal of their regimentation will be all the more effective than any hostile method.

What do you think...?
~

Originally Posted by ExoByte

Simple question that I'm looking for opinions on.

Should ignorance be responded to with brutality? Does someone who refuses intelligence deserve to be responded to harshly? Should one who completely shuts their mind be considered fair game?

No. It should not. If you use brutal means against racists for example, I think they would just be more hateful and dangerous against society in general. Instead society should try to make them see the errors in their views, and if they don't change their views, they should be allowed to keep them, no matter how stupid/evil their beliefs are.

The nation would just end up a police state if you don't have the right to think that and that, and I for one would hate living in a police state - even if only the bad views are banned.

Originally Posted by O'nus

When considering the nature of the psychology of conflict, we often become very upset and hostile towards those that will not accept our point of view, even when it is correct or encourages critical thinking.

Why, then, does it upset us so to become verbally hostile? This is the result of the urge to control and maintain the conflict or the person.

What do you think...?
~

I for one would agree.

Moreover I would suggest that the urge to control is actually a binding that ties oneself to ignorance itself. Such is blinding, just as blinding as putting ones own eyes out.

I have watced myself the last couple of years in and of this with my interactions with my own family. Self observation can be quite revealing if one can gain that sort of detached point of view to do the observing from.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

Well, to a doctor you're quite ignorant then. I think you're just using the wrong word, that's all. Ignorance isn't something you can be mad at, as it's usually not really their fault.

Originally Posted by Exobyte

And I'm talking about the ignorance of those who refuse to think. There are those who are naturally stupid, and those who refuse to fix it.

So, in reference to the original question; it is their own fault. Hence, they should be held responsible for their actions and the result of their ignorance.



It almost seems you're ignorant of the original poster's ideas; in favour of your own bias.

Do whatever you think is most effective based on your own knowledge and experience. For me it largely depends on the circumstance. Every response is good for something.

I think we should never be angry with ignorant people. Most times i'ts not even their fault they're that way.

Ignorance is this: Ignorance is not knowing something.. whether you choose to be ignorant or not, you're still ignorant. For instance, every one of us could be guilty of being ignorant of some random plot the government has to kill us all, then one day bam! We're dead. I know kind of random, but that's ignorance. The matrix is another good example of ignorance. Because everyone (in the movie) believes they are in the real world, they are all ignorant of the true reality there in.
With this in mind, how can we judge someone simply because they are ignorant? The simple thing to do s, let them be ignorant. Some may be ignorant by choice. You should never force knowledge upon someone. Think of religion. I'm an avid atheist because I think logically. I personally see people who believe in god/religion ignorant, where as they likely think of me being ignorant. Simply because we think that doesn't mean we can force our own beliefs upon eachother.
Anyhow, many times ignorance can be bliss. Let's say... you find out about Lucid Dreaming and really want to try it, but you can never become Lucid, so you become angry and depressed. If you were ignorant of LDing from the start, you would never be depressed and you would be contented with what you see as true/real, or what you know of. So you see? In many cases ignorance is bliss.
These are just a few examples, and although people who aren't ignorant think otherwise, those who are ignorant can be just as content, if not more so, than people who know the truth. (The Matrix seems to be the perfect example, think of the scene with the traitor eating the steak...)

Hope I contributed, and sorry for rambling
-Justin