Thread: Evolution is a Fact - Not a Theory

I think you meant apes evolved INTO humans. Anyway. That's easy--ever heard of endogenous retroviruses? Basically, when a retrovirus infects an organism, it copies part of its own genetic material over the host's DNA, altering it. Over hundreds of generations of random mutation, the remnants of the retrovirus still remain, with small, unique errors in their transcription. Humans and chimpanzees share several retrovirus remnants, with identical mutations. The chances of the mutations being identical in chimps and humans while arising in separate incidents is virtually impossible, thus we can conclude that humans and chimpanzees shared a common ancestor--and, by observing the mutations of the retrovirus remnant, we can even estimate the time period. This points at a date about eight million years ago, which correlates well with the fossil record.

It is already known that humans didn't come from apes themselves but from something in between of which there is no fosil record! Going from apes to humans is impossible. Like going from a orange to a banana. It's just strange and not realistic.

here we go...Endogenous retroviruses

Endogenous retroviruses are retroviruses derived from ancient infections of germ cells in humans, mammals and other vertebrates; as such their proviruses are passed on to the next generation and now remain in the genome. Retroviruses are viruses that reverse-transcribe their RNA into DNA for integration into the host's genome. Most retroviruses (such as HIV-1) infect somatic cells, but some can also infect germline cells (cells that make eggs and sperm) and once they have done so and have been transmitted to the next generation, they are termed endogenous. Endogenous retroviruses can persist in the genome of their host for long periods. However, they are generally only infectious for a short time after integration as they acquire 'knockout' mutations during host DNA replication. They can also be partially excised from the genome by a process known as recombinational deletion.

If endogenous retroviruses are the answer. This brings up twice as many questions! how could humans evolve from a serious of unexplained temporary viruses that the apes carried and then we morphed into humans? A specific range of special infections cannot magically alter apes genetics into humans. Some random lucky mutation doesn't make sense and there is nothing to back it up. The problems with natural selection make this theory complete nonsense. Unique errors DO NOT remain, because of the aquired knockout mutations during host DNA replication. They can also be partially excised from the genome by a process known as recombinational deletion. As stated above. I listed the differences between these gentics in this thread already. There is to many of them. Too much is unknown to conclude your pie in the sky ape theory. Infections are not progressive. Viruses, are not progressive.

If you can tell me how this happened did you know you would be the first person in history to do so? There is no fosil record to support the theory. You are mistaken.

Originally Posted by darwin

if any variation or modification in the organ be ever useful to an animal under changing conditions of life, then the difficulty of believing that a perfect and complex eye could be formed by natural selection, though insuperable by our imagination, can hardly be considered real.

This means it's difficult to imagine how it's possible because it's absurd. Frankly everything else stated is a weak explanation aswel.

You can't even spell.

If anyone wants to know how the eye evolved, read Dawkins book "Climbing Mount Improbable", there's a whole chapter on it. If you don't read it, it's your own fault if you don't understand, but don't just go around saying the evolution of the eye is impossible--because it's not.

(Hint: being able to sense light is useful, being able to sense movement is more useful, seeing a blurry image is even more useful, etc. 1% of an eye is better than none, 50% is better than that, etc. Get it? You don't have to evolve the whole thing all at once--each stage is useful. It is not irreducibly complex.)

Originally Posted by Mystic7

It is already known that humans didn't come from apes themselves but from something in between of which there is no fosil record! Going from apes to humans is impossible. Like going from a orange to a banana. It's just strange and not realistic.

here we go...Endogenous retroviruses



If endogenous retroviruses are the answer. This brings up twice as many questions! how could humans evolve from a serious of unexplained temporary viruses that the apes carried and then we morphed into humans? A specific range of special infections cannot magically alter apes genetics into humans. Some random lucky mutation doesn't make sense and there is nothing to back it up. The problems with natural selection make this theory complete nonsense. Unique errors DO NOT remain, because of the aquired knockout mutations during host DNA replication. They can also be partially excised from the genome by a process known as recombinational deletion. As stated above. I listed the differences between these gentics in this thread already. There is to many of them. Too much is unknown to conclude your pie in the sky ape theory. Infections are not progressive. Viruses, are not progressive.

If you can tell me how this happened did you know you would be the first person in history to do so? There is no fosil record to support the theory. You are mistaken.




This means it's difficult to imagine how it's possible because it's absurd. Frankly everything else stated is a weak explanation aswel.

I'm almost convinced an ape authored the above post.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Your right, we did not. We evolved from them over time.

In this quote you write. "we did not evolve from apes, we evolved from them". Your first sentence tells me we did not evolve from them. The next sentence you claim we did evolve from them.

Originally Posted by O'nus

I hate to break this to you, but your genetics are nearly 95% similar to a monkey's. Even more so, humans are significantly similar to a grapefruit. So do not try to appeal to this, for it is simply irrelevant how genetically similar we are.

95%? I don't know if this is exactly correct. But even so...5% is, a lot when it comes to these things...5% is a lot to explain. Also does a grapefruit being so similar to a human being, have the ability to morph into us through some virus infection perhaps? I highly doubt it.

Furthermore, you have not refuted any of my earlier claims in my post, which is what I was trying to concentrate on. The point is that evolution cannot explain everything as of yet and it admits to that. Trying to argue otherwise is simply a waste of time.

If evolution can't explain this why believe it so much? You over estimate your evidence. you have like 5% evidence and 95% superstition. Like trying to fit a triangle into a square hole. Some of it fits but in the end it doesn't match up completely.

Fossil records.

I have evidence your shoes can talk to you because, fossil records. The next question is obviously....What fossil records are YOU refering towards? They would have to be discovered by you personally. Then you might be front page news.

Here's some proof for you;

Run your hand down to your ass, now move up to the bottom of your spine. Congratulations, you have found your tail-bone where the tail once grew out of. Oh, and let us not forget your appendix which is useless for a humans diet, but entirely crucial for an apes. If you believe these are there for other reasons, I am more than receptive to read why.

If the human body contained evidence of ape heritage I don't think you would be the first to discover it by running your hand down your ass and feeling your tail-bone. This is not proof. That is very watered down thinking. Something a child would conclude. Trees are going past the car when dad drives so the earth must be moving. Tail bone or something that seems similar to something else. Doesn't automatically mean it had to have come from it.

The evidence is, in fact, so overwhelming that it would take 8 hours to show it entirely to you.

Dream on. You can't even make a summary. You present nonsense so far.

If anyone wants to know how the eye evolved, read Dawkins book "Climbing Mount Improbable"

Or you can read "climbing mount fantasy impossible" by Dorkins.

(Hint: being able to sense light is useful, being able to sense movement is more useful, seeing a blurry image is even more useful, etc. 1% of an eye is better than none, 50% is better than that, etc. Get it? You don't have to evolve the whole thing all at once--each stage is useful. It is not irreducibly complex.)

It's useful but how did skin effectively change into it in just the right places in such a short time considering the impossibility of such a change. 50% is better than 1% of an eye? We know that but it doesn't make it a sensible or plausible idea. Saying each stage happened over some time is not good enough. I can say anything happened over time. You've only got the age of the earth. That's not very long to explain it all.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

I'm almost convinced an ape authored the above post.

I'm almost convinced this song is for you.

Back to mindless insults when you lose.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

If endogenous retroviruses are the answer. This brings up twice as many questions! how could humans evolve from a serious of unexplained temporary viruses that the apes carried and then we morphed into humans? A specific range of special infections cannot magically alter apes genetics into humans. Some random lucky mutation doesn't make sense and there is nothing to back it up.

Tsen didn't say retroviruses were the cause of the evolution between apes and humans.

He wanted to use it as an excuse.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Back to mindless insults when you lose.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Or you can read "climbing mount fantasy impossible" by Dorkins.

First of all, how old are you? Second of all, you may think that questioning evolution is something that's never been done before, something which clearly shows you to be of superior intellect and daring.

Well, it's been done before, to death. Evolution is one of science's most successful theories, and it explains mounds and mounds of genetic phenomena. I will give you multiple in-depth examples if you want, but I don't think you will know what the hell I'm talking about anyways. There is also a fine line between questioning something honestly and saying 'is not' in response to everything supplied to you. There are books written about this subject - that's how complex it can be. If you really wanted to learn, you would read them... however, you don't want to learn. You want to be contradictory because it makes you feel original, like you're ahead of the game.

You might as well start questioning gravity, I'll bet no one's ever thought to do that! Now quit being a troll and either try honestly to learn this stuff or leave us alone. Please.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

I'm almost convinced this song is for you.

Back to mindless insults when you lose.

Back to mindless insults when you lose faith in your opponent's capacity for reason.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

In this quote you write. "we did not evolve from apes, we evolved from them". Your first sentence tells me we did not evolve from them. The next sentence you claim we did evolve from them.

Perhaps if you remotely understood any fundamentals of evolution, you would understand the process of evolution and natural selection.

95%? I don't know if this is exactly correct. But even so...5% is, a lot when it comes to these things...5% is a lot to explain. Also does a grapefruit being so similar to a human being, have the ability to morph into us through some virus infection perhaps? I highly doubt it.

Again, you obviously know nothing about evolution.

I have evidence your shoes can talk to you because, fossil records. The next question is obviously....What fossil records are YOU refering towards? They would have to be discovered by you personally. Then you might be front page news.

The video I linked to you will provide, in great detail, the fossil records.

If the human body contained evidence of ape heritage I don't think you would be the first to discover it by running your hand down your ass and feeling your tail-bone. This is not proof. That is very watered down thinking. Something a child would conclude. Trees are going past the car when dad drives so the earth must be moving. Tail bone or something that seems similar to something else. Doesn't automatically mean it had to have come from it.

Perhaps you can explain why you have a tailbone and appendix then instead of simply attacking and insulting?

Dream on. You can't even make a summary. You present nonsense so far.

You have done nothing so far by be a hypocritical, hostile, intelletcually icompetent, sanctimonious, patronizing, condescending, conjecturing, demanding and yet not giving, completely ignorant, moron.

Please give me reason to think otherwise and give justifications in response rather than a pathetic attempt at ad hominems or tu quoque.

Furthermore, go read a book on evolution. That is, if you have the phrenic capacity to do so.

~

Okay, I'm too lazy to keep track of these threads anymore. Trust me when I say that your arguments are done to death, Mystic.
Now, I never said retrovirus markers CAUSED humans to evolve from apes, only that they are genetic markers showing shared heritage. The split between humans and chimps was caused by increasingly divergent behavior and environment leading to reproductive isolation of the two groups.

And with that, I once again take my leave of these debates. I thought I was ready to jump back in, but I just can't be bothered to deal with the willfully ignorant.

But there is another important point to consider in all of this.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ph8kGPXOoUw

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Or you can read "climbing mount fantasy impossible" by Dorkins.

You don't want to learn. I understand.

But for anybody else who wants to learn about evolution, that and The Blind Watchmaker are really good.

Originally Posted by Tsen

once again take my leave of these debates. I thought I was ready to jump back in, but I just can't be bothered to deal with the willfully ignorant.

I second that.

Edit:

You know I thought about it and if I went around insulting people and not listening to them ( essentially projecting my ignorance upon them) until they gave up, I would also feel like a very smart person.

Example:
"I believe evolution is true. *Provides X argument*"
"You're a dumbass"
"Can you criticise my argument?"
"It's crap"
"How?"
"Cause an idiot wrote it"
"Why are they an idiot?"
"Shut up"
"What?"
"What? Why are you such a baby?"
"I give up..."
"I knew it! I am teh weiner!"

Also, this is a very good DVD set on evolution (just.. 8 hours long)
https://www.skeptic.com/Merchant2/me...egory_Code=OTH

~

Btw O'nus. Wise choice of the medical symbol. But I am yet to figure out the purpose of it from you. You probally don't even realize the full meaning or history of the symbol you just put it there because it looks good or you felt like it because unconsiously you know it's effect.

Originally Posted by Tsen

The split between humans and chimps was caused by increasingly divergent behavior and environment leading to reproductive isolation of the two groups.

And you know this because? You are guessing or you just would like to think that is what happened? You seem to not realize the lack of fossil records to confirm this. Any educated person atleast admits they don't have the fossil records and a lack of evidence for the theory. Evidence to the contrary, if they are educated enough actually they start thinking it makes more sense that we didn't evovle from apes at all. Until they are finally convinced from their own research. Self assured as you are about the evidence, it makes you look dumb because there is litte. What you can't do is show me the conclusive proof.

You probably don't realize the insignificance of your existence as it applies to anyone who knows what they're talking about (i.e. that they know that you don't know what you're talking about), or even know the difference between possessive pronouns and contractions for that matter.

So, we are all in the same boat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywo7bAp0h8k

Stop typing. Stop posting. Stop breathing.

Stop doing silly equations, Nasa is not impressed.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

And you know this because? You are guessing or you just would like to think that is what happened? You seem to not realize the lack of fossil records to confirm this. Any educated person atleast admits they don't have the fossil records and a lack of evidence for the theory.

Or alternatively simply links you to them:
Like this, Or this, Or this

Or even shows you images of them:



(A) Pan troglodytes, chimpanzee, modern
(B) Australopithecus africanus, STS 5, 2.6 My
(C) Australopithecus africanus, STS 71, 2.5 My
(D) Homo habilis, KNM-ER 1813, 1.9 My
(E) Homo habilis, OH24, 1.8 My
(F) Homo rudolfensis, KNM-ER 1470, 1.8 My
(G) Homo erectus, Dmanisi cranium D2700, 1.75 My
(H) Homo ergaster (early H. erectus), KNM-ER 3733, 1.75 My
(I) Homo heidelbergensis, "Rhodesia man," 300,000 - 125,000 y
(J) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Ferrassie 1, 70,000 y
(K) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, La Chappelle-aux-Saints, 60,000 y
(L) Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, Le Moustier, 45,000 y
(M) Homo sapiens sapiens, Cro-Magnon I, 30,000 y
(N) Homo sapiens sapiens, modern

Trust me, these are put together by very educated people.

You may remove your foot now.

I don't see the resemblances.

I get how an E can evolve into an F, but how in the heck would an F evolve into a G?! They're way different. Stupid.