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    Thread: Why We Fight.

    1. 02-19-2008 04:25 PM #26
      Pontification
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      Quote Originally Posted by Universal Mind View Post
      A lot of our fighting is necessary, but big business is full of evil people.
      Hmm...
      I think to be really successful as any kind of executive or salesman, you have to be a sociopath. I am not exaggerating. Top executives and the world's greatest salespeople do not have consiences. If they had the emotional depth necessary to have a conscience, they would not be the money seeking missiles that they are. It takes a great deal of manipulation and ignoring of the feelings of others to make it far in that way of life, and success is the only thing that really gives them any kind of fulfillment. However, I think they do a lot of good for the economy and the production of our luxuries we like so much. They just need as many eyes on them as possible so they don't go too far out of bounds with their evil natures. Are weapons executives behind our perceived needs for war? I don't put such a thing past them for a second. It is definitely within them to pull something that evil. However, I don't think that is what is happening. Pulling such illusions involving the tendencies of large religious movements and the major policies of other nations would be very, very difficult and probably impossible.
      Well your argument is very crude, stooping to nothing less than the overuse of the term "evil" which, as we all know, is a subjective term. "Evil" doesn't even exist outside of whatever humans define it to mean. You also mistakenly assert that the men of big business are out for money... oftentimes this is not true. Many businesspeople are in their profession because they love their job, others seek power. Your argument holds too many overgeneralizations and false presumptions to be valid.
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    2. 02-19-2008 04:46 PM #27
      Cyclic13
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      I never thought I'd be defending UM but I believe you're grasping at straws by picking apart his argument for the use of the word "evil". With that rational we could pick apart any argument or word for being subjective... because ultimately they are. But to deny his point entirely because of it, is premature.

      With today's business model as it stands right now, it's undeniable that business is cutthroat. And as such, anyone wanting to be successful at it would have to be that way by nature or by choice. Under their own volition of not, either way makes no difference. The end results of big business speak for themselves. The corporations are devoid of emotion and ethical or moral responsibility. Not to mention, they are two-faced, exploitative of human and natural resources, and psychotic by nature. So anyone at the helm to any of those beasts would have to be in a mindset similar to that of the corporation's. It's just a massive macroscopic representative of what they are, and how they think...

      May I point you to The Corporation thread which has an excellent award winning documentary to find out how that is exactly.

      PS. Welcome to the forum...

      Also, regarding the documentary in this thread, it's pretty obvious to anyone with a little bit of common sense that some underhanded nonsense with the military-industrial complex went on to take us to war. I mean, for god's sake, the vice president of the country is a revolving-door CEO for Halliburton and ex-director of the CFR. Could you get more obvious how blurred the line has become? Corporations now have the power to will countries to war simply for their own benefit without accountability, like any despot leader would've done. Bush was probably manipulated by Cheney, and it works out better that way for him that way because we immediately demonize Bush before Cheney and his real affiliations like the CFR and Halliburton which pretty much remain hidden from prying eyes.

      Cheney's Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year, senator finds
      Last edited by Cyclic13; 02-19-2008 at 06:37 PM.


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    3. 02-19-2008 05:40 PM #28
      ChrissyMaria
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      "Mankind must put an end to War, or War will put an end to Mankind" -JFK

      couldn't of said it better myself.
      I would rather die on my feet then to live on my knees.
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    4. 02-19-2008 07:22 PM #29
      Chaos
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      Quote Originally Posted by Alric View Post
      Its not so much the arms dealers as the banks. The banks make loans to both side of the wars. Some people like to think war helps the economy but it doesn't. Its just an illusion. There is a sudden surge of manufacturing and people build weapons and war supplies, so a lot of people get jobs and it seems like it helps. The problem is all that money is basicly being wasted.
      I couldn't agree with you more. The US gov't spends millions of dollars each year on frivolous items that they could have easily acquired more cheaply had they not decided to buy products from a company who promises to ship them asap but then jacks up the prices. I was watching the news about a week ago and heard about how the gov't spent $20 per cafeteria trey and thousands of dollars on a single mini fridge. Then they cut costs on the things that really matter, like the lives of the soldiers. A while ago the gov't had the chance to improve the soldier's body armor but didn't for financial reasons. The whole system makes no sense, and needs to be seriously modified.
      "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." —George Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004
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    5. 02-20-2008 03:20 AM #30
      Grod
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      Quote Originally Posted by SolSkye View Post
      PS. Welcome to the forum...
      Nah, it's just M-Cat, back for more.
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    6. 02-20-2008 03:40 AM #31
      Universal Mind
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pontification View Post
      Hmm...
      Well your argument is very crude, stooping to nothing less than the overuse of the term "evil" which, as we all know, is a subjective term. "Evil" doesn't even exist outside of whatever humans define it to mean. You also mistakenly assert that the men of big business are out for money... oftentimes this is not true. Many businesspeople are in their profession because they love their job, others seek power. Your argument holds too many overgeneralizations and false presumptions to be valid.
      If you are confused on the definition of the word evil, look it up. I didn't say all business people are evil. I have a business myself. I said that the top executives and top salespeople in the world do not have consiences. Don't act like I said anything other than that.

      The only thing to love about those jobs is the gain of money and power. The people who are the best at it are devoid of empathy. If you have not seen that for yourself, stick around.
      How do you know you are not dreaming right now?
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    7. 02-20-2008 03:39 PM #32
      Pontification
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      Yes Universal Mind, you are completely correct (apart from the fact that your use of the term "evil" is only one of three reasons why your argument was invalid). Evil is a moral term and is subjective. You say an executive is evil, well I don't think he is. Therefore evil is not absolute and you can't base arguments off that word.

      Why can't you just admit you can't argue?

      Quote Originally Posted by Grod View Post
      Nah, it's just M-Cat, back for more.
      Lol, dunno what your problem is. You obsessed with this guy M-Cat or something?
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