Psychology: Witnessing alcoholism and abuse

[NonDualistic]

I have a question regarding what traits arise in children who grow up under the shadow of alcoholism and domestic violence within their family and home. My question stems not from my own experience of such as I never witnessed either alcoholism nor abuse while I grew up at home. Rather it stems from observing those around me for years who have witnessed such. Case #1 My father. Grew up in the 1940's under an alcoholic father. The man beat his children when they broke rules and such, literally with fist and horsewhip and such. He never beat his wife however. Case #2 My maternal Grandmother She grew up in a home in the 1920's under an alcoholic father. the man used to beat her brothers and her mother in his drunken states. Case # 3 My wife She grew up in the 1960's under an alcoholic father. Her Mother would beat him on a weekly basis when he would come home after work drunk. She would beat him literally with frying pans, tennnis rackets, and anything else handy all the while verbally beating him as well. All in front of her and her 6 siblings. I noticed one day after years on observation, that alll three individuals share a number of similar personality traits. One outstanding one is that all three have a need to be right. A second is the need to be in control A third is the tendency to just tune out anyone who differs in opinion and cannnot be swayed to theirs. Even to the extent of judgementally running other such people down in one way or another. My grandmother is now dead and I dont know with her, but the other two alos share a tendency to be closed off to others, lacking intimacy. No door open to possibly be hurt through. I was wondering if there are studies and such out there that document such findings? Or if anyone else sees similar traits in individuals growing up under similar circumstances?

[dragonoverlord]

Just want to put in my opinion on alchohol. I think it should be banned outright. To many lives are destroyed because of it or indirectly because of it (like drunk driving). Wheres a prohibition when you need it?

[Mes Tarrant]

Banning alcohol didn't work in the 1920s and will never work in future human history, I don't think. Uhh sorry haven't read the first post yet, but that just came to my mind. Edit: Okay just read it. I don't think it's only alcoholism and violence that leads to that... it can be any type of traumatic thing. I think your observation that people who witnessed that need to be in control is a correct one. I've heard a psychologist say something similar about victims of rape.

[dragonoverlord]

Banning alcohol didn't work in the 1920s and will never work in future human history, I don't think. 2 words Death Penalty. Is your right to drink alchohol important enough to you that you will risk your life to get some koors light?

[Barns]

2 words Death Penalty. Is your right to drink alchohol important enough to you that you will risk your life to get some koors light? Alcohol does not change people, it strengthens characters of the person they already are. If someone has tendancies, then alcohol will bring those tendancies out. The alcohol did not create those tendancies, the tendancies were already there. Many people like alcohol because they like the side of their personality it brings out. The side of their personality. Not alcohol's personality. An example: If you were to blame a murder on alcohol, then it is important that you realise the tendancy to murder was already there. The drink itself just sped it up, it made each emotion more extreme, it pushed the murderous tendancies to the surface. The murderer is still a criminal, alcohol may have pushed them over the edge but it was them who drove right up to the edge. Besides, alcohol is also a very positive thing. As I have said before, it exaggerates people's emotions and feelings. Alcohol does not discriminate. It is a chemical boost which can affect joy and love as well as hatred. To conclude: Your emotions are your own emotions. Alcohol is merely a tool to bring them out. It does not put ideas into people's heads which are not already there. So how can you blame alcohol for that? It is a human right to be able to drink. And there are many, many people who would stand by that right.

[dragonoverlord]

Alcohol does not change people, it strengthens characters of the person they already are. If someone has tendancies, then alcohol will bring those tendancies out. The alcohol did not create those tendancies, the tendancies were already there. Many people like alcohol because they like the side of their personality it brings out. The side of their personality. Not alcohol's personality. An example: If you were to blame a murder on alcohol, then it is important that you realise the tendancy to murder was already there. The drink itself just sped it up, it made each emotion more extreme, it pushed the murderous tendancies to the surface. The murderer is still a criminal, alcohol may have pushed them over the edge but it was them who drove right up to the edge. Besides, alcohol is also a very positive thing. As I have said before, it exaggerates people's emotions and feelings. Alcohol does not discriminate. It is a chemical boost which can affect joy and love as well as hatred. To conclude: Your emotions are your own emotions. Alcohol is merely a tool to bring them out. It does not put ideas into people's heads which are not already there. So how can you blame alcohol for that? It is a human right to be able to drink. And there are many, many people who would stand by that right. I realise that any behaviours by a person who is drunk are a characteristic the person had all along but alchohol impears coordination and common sense,sometimes a persons tendencies are better shoved beneath the surface then let out in the open because of alchohol. How many peoples lives are destroyed directly or inderectly by alchohol each year? Drunk drivers,family abuse etc. If alchohol is put into prohibtion you may be mildly incovencienced by it but society in general will be better for it.

[psychology student]

Alcohol does not change people, it strengthens characters of the person they already are. If someone has tendancies, then alcohol will bring those tendancies out. The alcohol did not create those tendancies, the tendancies were already there. Many people like alcohol because they like the side of their personality it brings out. The side of their personality. Not alcohol's personality. An example: If you were to blame a murder on alcohol, then it is important that you realise the tendancy to murder was already there. The drink itself just sped it up, it made each emotion more extreme, it pushed the murderous tendancies to the surface. The murderer is still a criminal, alcohol may have pushed them over the edge but it was them who drove right up to the edge. Besides, alcohol is also a very positive thing. As I have said before, it exaggerates people's emotions and feelings. Alcohol does not discriminate. It is a chemical boost which can affect joy and love as well as hatred. To conclude: Your emotions are your own emotions. Alcohol is merely a tool to bring them out. It does not put ideas into people's heads which are not already there. So how can you blame alcohol for that? It is a human right to be able to drink. And there are many, many people who would stand by that right. Could one say the same thing about guns? To an extent at least.

[Oneironaut Zero]

Alcohol does not change people, it strengthens characters of the person they already are. If someone has tendancies, then alcohol will bring those tendancies out. The alcohol did not create those tendancies, the tendancies were already there. Many people like alcohol because they like the side of their personality it brings out. The side of their personality. Not alcohol's personality. An example: If you were to blame a murder on alcohol, then it is important that you realise the tendancy to murder was already there. The drink itself just sped it up, it made each emotion more extreme, it pushed the murderous tendancies to the surface. The murderer is still a criminal, alcohol may have pushed them over the edge but it was them who drove right up to the edge. Besides, alcohol is also a very positive thing. As I have said before, it exaggerates people's emotions and feelings. Alcohol does not discriminate. It is a chemical boost which can affect joy and love as well as hatred. To conclude: Your emotions are your own emotions. Alcohol is merely a tool to bring them out. It does not put ideas into people's heads which are not already there. So how can you blame alcohol for that? It is a human right to be able to drink. And there are many, many people who would stand by that right. I don't believe that's a very good defense for alcohol. Now, don't get me wrong, I love to drink (as anyone here, that knows me, knows...) but I don't believe that there is very much that can be said to adequately downplay the harm that alcohol can cause, has caused, and will likely cause in the future. Yes, alcohol amplifies tendencies, like you said, but we all have tendencies that can be taken to some disproportionate extreme. It's called having an "id". There are other parts of our psyches that work to keep these feelings in check, and allow us the benefit of self-evaluation, so that none of these impulsive emotions actually come into fruition. Anything that puts the functionality of those components in jeopardy is not to be taken lightly. Alcohol, more or less, destroys the ego (the psychoanalytic definition thereof). It's not fair to discard the notion of prohibiting it simply on the grounds that "it just brings out emotions," because it is this extra influence that is often the catalyst for so many bad events. Just because someone has murderous thoughts that rattle around in their head, while sober, doesn't mean that murder is destined to take place. However, add alcohol into the mix, and the "check" is destroyed, so the risk of that happening is increased exponentially. One could make a similar argument to say "You can't blame heroin for all the heroine deaths. It shouldn't be outlawed. Some people just abuse it and don't know when they are taking too much, and it's their fault if they die." Someone, some time, has to step in and say "is this worth the risk" and decide whether or not it will be allowed or prohibited. It's not really about "blaming the drug," it's about "blaming the large-scale reaction of such a drug being so available to the public." With that, I'm not saying that alcohol should or shouldn't be prohibited - only that there is much more to it than what you've proposed.

[Universal Mind]

Alcohol does not change people, it strengthens characters of the person they already are. I totally disagree. I think alcohol often creates desires that were not already there and can dissolve a person's conscience to almost nothing. It can create a completely different personality. It changes a person's personality more than any other drug I know of. 2 words Death Penalty. Is your right to drink alchohol important enough to you that you will risk your life to get some koors light? Prohibition makes things far worse. That is true about any drug. Do you really want Al Capones to rule the biggest cities? Do you want people you care about getting mugged so alcoholics can get the money for alcohol that is more than ten times more expensive than it is right now? I noticed one day after years on observation, that alll three individuals share a number of similar personality traits. One outstanding one is that all three have a need to be right. A second is the need to be in control A third is the tendency to just tune out anyone who differs in opinion and cannnot be swayed to theirs. Even to the extent of judgementally running other such people down in one way or another. My grandmother is now dead and I dont know with her, but the other two alos share a tendency to be closed off to others, lacking intimacy. No door open to possibly be hurt through. I was wondering if there are studies and such out there that document such findings? Or if anyone else sees similar traits in individuals growing up under similar circumstances? It looks like what you are describing in Narcissistic Personality Disorder mixed with other disorders in Cluster B of DSM IV. There is a very high correlation between alcoholism and those personality disorders. http://www.mentalhealth.com/dis1/p21-pe07.html http://personalitydisorders.suite101...sterbdisorcers http://content.apa.org/journals/pha/12/1/65.html

[NonDualistic]

It looks like what you are describing in Narcissistic Personality Disorder mixed with other disorders in Cluster B of DSM IV. There is a very high correlation between alcoholism and those personality disorders. I Should make it clear that none of these three persons observed drink alcohol themselves.

[Warlock]

My father was an alcoholic, you can guess what my stance is on alcohol, go ahead, take a guess. And to answer NonDualistic's question: no, I know of no studies of that sort. My brother and I grew up together under the rule of alcohol and I can't say that we are much alike in terms of personality. But, then again, he actually got along with my father, whilst I did not.

[Universal Mind]

I Should make it clear that none of these three persons observed drink alcohol themselves. Oh. I guess I am used to associating alcoholism with growing up in alcoholic families. I was probably thinking too much about my own family line. What you said is not really enough for a definite diagnosis of the stuff I brought up, but it sounds very much like what would fit. Any kind of abuse sets the stage for those disorders, and alcoholism definitely fuels abuse.

[The Fishy]

Alcohol shows your true nature, alcohol exxagerates what's already there, alcohol just reveals your soul... I hate this argument. HATE it. That might be true, although not in all cases. You say "alcohol reveals your real emotions, real soul, without all of your safeguards" and maybe it does reveal that. But when you say that those undiluted emotions encompass your true nature, THAT gets me. When you say that, you're totally writing off any "safeguards" a person has that stop these emotions, as if they aren't natural or don't contribute just as much - or more - to someones personality! The fact that someone doesn't let anyone see what he's really feeling, or that he or she doesn't like to confront peolple with their real emotions, the fact that some would withdraw into themselves quietly and hurt inside after something instead of doing anything, the fact that someone doesn't get upset about anything, the fact that someone dismisses things that he, if drunk, would become upset about all MATTER when you're assessing someones "true nature", it's ridiculus to say that these qualities aren't part of your personality, and you could find many more examples at different degrees of extremity if you thought about it. Doesn't it matter if someone's natural instinct is to let go of things, or hide things, don't these safeguards matter? You're still seeing the soul of them?? Doesn't it matter if alcohol makes someone a lot more upset about something than normal? Or, yes, lets go to the other extreme - doesn't it matter to your nature if you don't have these safeguards, if you have no problem being assertive or brutally honest? Or if you don't regulate your fellings at all and don't give a ****? Etc! This argument is TOTAL CRAP. ... Rant finished.

[Sarge_Maximus2]

Just want to put in my opinion on alchohol. I think it should be banned outright. To many lives are destroyed because of it or indirectly because of it (like drunk driving). Wheres a prohibition when you need it? The prohibition led to gang violence.