Thread: May 2008 (LHC) Particle Accelerator - Miracle or Catastrophe?

Prove to me there isn't a chance all of humanity won't get sucked in this Quantum black hole.

What, so apparently I'm a quantum physicist now?

Stop making such stupid points.

The physicists have proved it, that's good enough for me.

Wait-- They are making a black hole with this thing?

Neato.

Originally Posted by Xei

This sort of thing happens just above the Earth all the time to no ill effect. And you're still not a physicist so stop trying to lecture those who are. Physicists are, by definition, not idiots, especially not the ones who build particle accelerators. If they thought they had any chance of killing themselves, there's no way they would do it.

Woah, they're really that fast?

And your not a physicist so stop contradicting him. Are you more right then him, he is entitled to his opinion, such as you.

By the way, isn't that "black holes over us all the time" just speculation? I read little about it, like how the reason they don't effect us is because they're moving really fast. But again, that could be speculation also.

And your not a physicist so stop contradicting him. Are you more right then him, he is entitled to his opinion, such as you.

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, therefore I should stop voicing my opinion? Make sense please.

Neither of us are physicists but the physicists do contradict him and that is the whole point. Gettit?

Originally Posted by Xei

What, so apparently I'm a quantum physicist now?

Stop making such stupid points.

The physicists have proved it, that's good enough for me.

Ignorance.

You clearly know nothing about physics. As I stated before.

Prove to me there isn't a chance all of humanity won't get sucked in this Quantum black hole. Which according to that article goes against the law of conservation of energy. If Harold is wrong, the black hole will not decrease in size.

Harold imposed himself that it can go wrong. Back up your opinions with logic , not baseless assumption.

Ignorance.

Completelyunhelpfulmessageance.

At that rate Dreamworld, how many Physicists share your viewpoint?

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

At that rate Dreamworld, how many Physicists share your viewpoint?

Read the bold of the OP.

Dr Walter Wagner has been campaigning for years to stall the LHC program until someone can convince him that turning it on won't detonate the universe. He accuses the scientists involved of downplaying the risks, using his own kind of maths to "show" a 10% chance of everything ever going kablooey.

some Russian mathematicians are warning that we might get more than we bargained for. Specifically, time-travellers: futurenauts using our ultra-duper atomsmasher to punch a hole in causality and hop back from the future.

You clearly know nothing about physics. As I stated before.

Prove to me there isn't a chance all of humanity won't get sucked in this Quantum black hole. Which according to that article goes against the law of conservation of energy. If Harold is wrong, the black hole will not decrease in size.

Harold imposed himself that it can go wrong. Back up your opinions with logic , not baseless assumption.

Again. I'm not a quantum physicist. But quantum physicists are indeed quantum physicists. So how about you ask one of them.

I'm really not getting through to you am I? I haven't taken a degree in particle physics so I can't provide some kind of mathematical proof to you that explains why we won't all die.

Originally Posted by Xei

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, therefore I should stop voicing my opinion? Make sense please.

Neither of us are physicists but the physicists do contradict him and that is the whole point. Gettit?

Lol are you serious? Did you not get the point what I was trying to make? You got on his ass(not on everyone else's that talked about emerging black holes), and stated stuff like he knows "fuck" just because he was giving a response to what he read about, just as you. You also know what? He could be right.

Just because a discovery could be significant to us doesn't mean nothing wrong could happen from too. But.... all I'm really saying though is to not be an asshole,there are plenty of those. You say things to him as if you're only right and hes wrong.

Originally Posted by Xei

Again. I'm not a quantum physicist. But quantum physicists are indeed quantum physicists. So how about you ask one of them.

I'm really not getting through to you am I? I haven't taken a degree in particle physics so I can't provide some kind of mathematical proof to you that explains why we won't all die.

Oh God, if you don't know anything about physics why argue? The Law of Conversation of Energy is simple physics. If the black hole disappears, the particles it consumed would disappear. Therefore going against the Law.

No because it emits Hawking radiation which is a form of energy and e=mcc. That's where your particle's gone.

I didn't say I don't know any physics now, did I?

Isn't Xei studying physics...?

Originally Posted by Xei

No because it emits Hawking radiation which is a form of energy and e=mcc. That's where your particle's gone.

I didn't say I don't know any physics now, did I?

In particular, the discovery opened up a profound paradox that aims at the heart of why general relativity and quantum mechanics are so hard to reconcile. According to relativity theory, information about what falls into a black hole is forever lost. If the hole evaporates, however, what happens to the information contained within? Hawking suggested that black holes completely evaporate, destroying the information--in contradiction with the tenets of quantum mechanics. Destruction of information conflicts with the law of energy conservation, making this scenario implausible.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...k-holes&page=2

...eh. Not to step in too much in both of you two's argument, but its best to just let things go and wait(if they haven't already) for them to pull the switch and basically see if A.) We die;
B.) We live and find something special that could help humanity closer to the ultimate sex technology; C.) Nothing happens except a multi-million/billion dollar machine that is only capable of making a firecracker spark...

Originally Posted by malac

...eh. Not to step in too much in both of you two's argument, but its best to just let things go and wait(if they haven't already) for them to pull the switch and basically see if A.) We die;
B.) We live and find something special that could help humanity closer to the ultimate sex technology; C.) Nothing happens except a multi-million/billion dollar machine that is only capable of making a firecracker spark...

Some of us in here do not want to die. If this does kill everybody, we who did nothing to prevent it, are as responsible.

Originally Posted by Dreamworld

Some of us in here do not want to die. If this does kill everybody, we who did nothing to prevent it, are as responsible.

There is a chance that a rogue comet/asteroid could smash into the Earth tomorrow and obliterate every living thing down here. Our sky-sweeping budget is no where near good enough to see everything coming our way (4 million dollars per year).

A black hole or 'dark star' could pass through our system in the next 10 years and we'd never see it coming. It's intense gravity would throw all our planets out of their orbits and we'd be royally screwed.

Stop acting like a 1 in a billion chance is definitely going to happen because two scientists went against the grain of thousands and started shouting some end of the world doomsday scenarios.

At any rate, in the infinitesimally small chance that it does destroy the entire planet none of us will be around to hear you say "I told you so", so we win by default.

Originally Posted by Alextanium

Stop acting like a 1 in a billion chance is definitely going to happen because two scientists went against the grain of thousands and started shouting some end of the world doomsday scenarios.

I've heard that many times before in history...

Discoveries are "discovered" by one - two people, theories are formulated by one - two people, that not even "billions" have ever thought about. So why not two scientist that could be more correctly accurate to what is to happen then against thousands? Of course I'm not taking sides to who is right, the two guy or the thousands, but just saying a little something something because of the limitation you slapped on accordingly based on a ratio of numbers.

Scenario:
There is a city of crooks/bad guys that learn over the years how horrible their lives are and influenced based off their peers and experience thats been present to them. They steal, kill, rape, and fart. But out of the city there is a one guy that sees that, this is all wrong. Morally, whos right? The one guy or the millions of crooks?

Oh boy..now I must be really bored..

Originally Posted by Alextanium

There is a chance that a rogue comet/asteroid could smash into the Earth tomorrow and obliterate every living thing down here. Our sky-sweeping budget is no where near good enough to see everything coming our way (4 million dollars per year).

A black hole or 'dark star' could pass through our system in the next 10 years and we'd never see it coming. It's intense gravity would throw all our planets out of their orbits and we'd be royally screwed.

Stop acting like a 1 in a billion chance is definitely going to happen because two scientists went against the grain of thousands and started shouting some end of the world doomsday scenarios.

At any rate, in the infinitesimally small chance that it does destroy the entire planet none of us will be around to hear you say "I told you so", so we win by default.

According to the law of conservation of energy, it WILL be destructible. Quantum Physics is highly theorized, and there is no one in a million, there is no ratio, it is either a 100% chance or 0% chance. This is physics.

If it does work out, the law of conservation of energy will be debunked. But I don't think you know how much of this is theory. It is more rational to do more research on black holes around the galaxy, before making a tear in the universe, that physical law says will never close.

Please do click on the link I posted above and read it.

Everything is so tldr.

Anyway, I saw a lot of documentries about this, and did quite a bit of research (ftlz).

Black holes are a certainty, as black hole 'residues' were found in previous PA tests, just the BHs didn't have enough energy(?) to sustain themselves.

With the LHC they may. That would be so lulzy, right?

Science finally realises what the universe is constructed of and space is torn.

Would look great on a newspaper.

Originally Posted by malac

Scenario:
There is a city of crooks/bad guys that learn over the years how horrible their lives are and influenced based off their peers and experience thats been present to them. They steal, kill, rape, and fart. But out of the city there is a one guy that sees that, this is all wrong. Morally, whos right? The one guy or the millions of crooks?

Oh boy..now I must be really bored..

In that case the crooks are right because genral morality is based off the majority

Quantum Physics is highly theorized, and there is no one in a million, there is no ratio, it is either a 100% chance or 0% chance. This is physics.

What on Earth are you talking about? One of the crucial ideas behind quantum physics is the uncertainty principle which states the exact reverse of what you're claiming.

When is the exact date that they're flipping the switch anyway?

I think he's talking about chances in reality. No matter how small or big the chances for lets say lightning hitting you, there will only be one outcome. Either you get hit (100%) or not(0%). I guess that's more of a practicality issue with chances and is totaly different from the one talked about in quantum mechanics. We obviously aren't aware of the quantum world. So I wouldn't know if it applies to "lightning" as well.